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Thread: Bioware characters

  1. #141

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    They removed the Krogan characters from the party because over the trilogy the Krogan characters developed roles in Krogan society they wouldn't just be ripped out of to casually rejoin Shephard's crew, assuming they didn't die for whatever reason in ME1 or ME2. That was actually legitimate writing. James was done instead of a Krogan because, well, they're not exactly going to have a Krogan NCO in the Earth military to hand Shephard. Unless you'd just like even crappier writing anyway...I'll take James over a Krogan.
    I'm not saying bring one of them back though, get another Krogan!

    James is only on your crew cause he was there with you when the Reapers hit, well you can say that about the whole Normandy crew. James could have been in or out (I read that he was created for new players to the series), he is there so you have an early tank. I'm just saying at least give him something similar to Krogan charge that we had in past games, speaking from a gameplay standpoint.

    Speaking of Krogan..

    Last edited by SturmChurro; July 12, 2014 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by SturmChurro View Post
    I'm not saying bring one of them back though, get another Krogan!

    James is only on your crew cause he was there with you when the Reapers hit, well you can say that about the whole Normandy crew.
    Hand him who? The only damn characters they hand him is Ashley/Kaiden and James! Human military! You can't say that about anybody else that was EVER on the Normandy crew. Everyone else you have to hunt down. Nobody else is there. They're all out there taking care of their business. What Krogan do you propose to just hand him? Worf? As interesting as it would be to have a Krogan that human military can order along with Shephard at the beginning of ME3 there's something missing here. What alliance have the Humans signed with the Krogan between ME2 and ME3 that I missed?
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 12, 2014 at 11:11 AM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Hand him who? The only damn characters they hand him is Ashley/Kaiden and James! Human military! You can't say that about anybody else that was EVER on the Normandy crew. Everyone else you have to hunt down. Nobody else is there. They're all out there taking care of their business. What Krogan do you propose to just hand him? Worf? As interesting as it would be to have a Krogan that human military can order along with Shephard at the beginning of ME3 there's something missing here. What alliance have the Humans signed with the Krogan between ME2 and ME3 that I missed?
    What are you even talking about? Hand what who? Why would another Krogan companion have to be with alliance military? I'm not saying it's not cool that they finally add someone else that is also Alliance Military, I just personally like Krogans. It's completely subjective, except for the fact that James has nothing similar to a Krogan Charge if enemies get close. Like I said, I am talking from a gameplay standpoint.
    Last edited by SturmChurro; July 12, 2014 at 11:21 AM.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by SturmChurro View Post
    What are you even talking about? Hand what who? Why would another Krogan companion have to be alliance military? I'm not saying it's not cool that they finally add someone else that is also Alliance Military, I just personally like Krogans. It's completely subjective, except for the fact that James has nothing similar to a Krogan Charge if enemies get close. Like I said, I am talking from a gameplay standpoint.
    I'm saying Humans don't order Krogans around. As a general rule. There are exceptions. Like when a Krogan joins Normandy and is literally under Shephard's chain of command and yes, a human gives orders to a Krogan. Welcome to character thread. Leave gameplay at the door please. It's why Vega didn't have a Krogan charge for all he was a tank. He was still human. He can't take that crap and survive. Without a signed and sealed treaty and alliance between Humans and Krogan, if a Krogan that happened to be nearby and wasn't in the Chain of Command didn't want to leave because he wanted to stay and fight, to hell with the order to get on the ship. Now with said theoretical treaty and alliance, if he was in the chain of command, the Admiral could order him on and he'd damn well get on. It's how this crap works. Think world as well as character when you want a Krogan instead of Vega for a tank. At least if you're going to try and insert him at the same time of the story just because you like krogans more than Vega. Please.
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 12, 2014 at 11:27 AM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I'm saying Humans don't order Krogans around. Welcome to character thread. Leave gameplay at the door please. It's why Vega didn't have a Krogan charge for all he was a tank. He was still human. He can't take that crap and survive. Without a signed and sealed treaty and alliance between Humans and Krogan, if a Krogan that happened to be nearby and wasn't in the Chain of Command didn't want to leave because he wanted to stay and fight, to hell with the order to get on the ship. Now with said theoretical treaty and alliance, if he was in the chain of command, the Admiral could order him on and he'd damn well get on. It's how this crap works. Think world as well as character when you want a Krogan instead of Vega for a tank. At least if you're going to try and insert him at the same time of the story. Please.
    I still have literally no clue what having an alliance with the alliance has to do with one particular companion being on your crew. Think of Javik he is only there to help destroy the Reapers with Shepard, no ties to Alliance whatsoever. Garrus could have stayed in the fight for Palavan but he wen't along for the ride because of Shepard. They are there for Shepard rather than the alliance.

    So you're saying he couldn't even have some sort of melee ability equivalent, but different (he isn't a krogan), to a krogan charge when something like a Husk comes up, just because he is human? I didn't know humans forgot how to fight. Also, I am on topic I am still talking about characters, James Vega in particular, no matter how you want to put it.

    Hell, James Vega even can have a fist fight with Shepard, and he is huge.. Comon that guy has to know how to do more than crouch and shoot his gun at swarming husks on top of him.
    Last edited by SturmChurro; July 12, 2014 at 11:38 AM.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by SturmChurro View Post
    I still have literally no clue what having an alliance with the alliance has to do with one particular companion being on your crew. Think of Javik he is only there to help destroy the Reapers with Shepard, no ties to Alliance whatsoever. Garrus could have stayed in the fight for Palavan but he wen't along for the ride because of Shepard. They are there for Shepard rather than the alliance.
    Javik put himself under Shephard's command. So did Garrus. So did Wrex in ME1. Understand the difference between them and some random Krogan who doesn't have a damn clue who these people are trying to give him orders and doesn't give a damn about them and just wants to fight the reapers that just showed up. He might know Shephard by reputation possibly(but it's a huge Universe), but to hell with them, he's staying and not running. The fight is obviously here right now. You need him in the chain of command and the ability to give him an order.

    Now, would you like to go into a little more detail when this Krogan might actually come into play instead of it casually replacing Vega? If so, what are you doing with Vega? Will he just stay the same? Will he change at all or will you have two tanks and make one character totally useless in some really crappy game design? Let me know your thoughts. Character thread.

    So your saying he couldn't even have some sort of melee ability equivalent, but different (he isn't a krogan), to a krogan charge when something like a Husk comes up, just because he is human? I didn't know humans forgot how to fight. Also, I am on topic I am still talking about characters, James Vega in particular, no matter how you want to put it.
    Leave gameplay at the damn door. This is a character thread. I'm ignoring this as off-topic pining for a Krogan charge. And no, to be clear, as you're a moderator and could read into this, this is not me back-seat modding. This is me explaining why I'm ignoring this. I'll be slicing and dicing future posts that mention gameplay abilities and leaving this out of future posts. I'm here for the characters.
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 12, 2014 at 11:46 AM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Javik put himself under Shephard's command. So did Garrus. So did Wrex in ME1. Understand the difference between them and some random Krogan who doesn't have a damn clue who these people are trying to give him orders and doesn't give a damn about them and just wants to fight the reapers that just showed up. He might know Shephard by reputation possibly(but it's a huge Universe), but to hell with them, he's staying and not running. The fight is obviously here right now. You need him in the chain of command and the ability to give him an order.

    Now, would you like to go into a little more detail when this Krogan might actually come into play instead of it casually replacing Vega? If so, what are you doing with Vega? Will he just stay the same? Will he change at all or will you have two tanks and make one character totally useless in some really crappy game design? Let me know your thoughts. Character thread.


    Leave gameplay at the damn door. This is a character thread. I'm ignoring this as off-topic pining for a Krogan charge. And no, to be clear, as you're a moderator and could read into this, this is not me back-seat modding. This is me explaining why I'm ignoring this. I'll be slicing and dicing future posts that mention gameplay abilities and leaving this out of future posts. I'm here for the characters.
    You do know that when I was talking about bringing another Krogan on board it was a joke right? I wasn't arguing about removing James and replacing him. I like James, he has more depth than a supposed "random krogan" would probably have (debatable), not to mention the fact that he is someone you can relate to. You could say that Javik was just some "random Prothean", if you want to compare bringing some "random krogan" on board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    random Krogan who doesn't have a damn clue who these people are trying to give him orders and doesn't give a damn about them and just wants to fight the reapers that just showed up.
    That's Javik, just replace Krogan with Prothean.
    Last edited by SturmChurro; July 12, 2014 at 12:03 PM.

  8. #148

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Well, Javik literally was a random Prothean, but he was an awesome source of lore if you bother talking to him a lot. Which I did. And they nailed the spite against the Reapers for him. It's why I never complained about him and generally had issues with those that did. He took a way the veneer of the Prothean awesomeness that Mass Effect 1 built up with the mythos, and made the race what it was. A race of protheans, each with a personality. Not all geniuses, most not even smart. And one, who we know, nothing more than a soldier who had no chance of understanding the advanced concepts of the universe.

    The Krogan, well, I wouldn't have minded, but it'd have taken some wrangling depending on how it was done. And you get nothing for it. We know the Krogan culture. We have nothing more to learn from them. What we need from them we get from the guest stars and the mission. The new characters are well and truly new characters that we learn stuff from. Otherwise they're really the tried and true members of the Normany. With Vega we learn the army after we spent Mass Effect 1 learning the fleet. EDI gives us a look into a well and truly unleashed AI that has and was her own personality and is truly free and not a part of some other 'race-that-was-built-to-be-a-race', unlike Legion.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Well, Javik literally was a random Prothean, but he was an awesome source of lore if you bother talking to him a lot. Which I did. And they nailed the spite against the Reapers for him. It's why I never complained about him and generally had issues with those that did. He took a way the veneer of the Prothean awesomeness that Mass Effect 1 built up with the mythos, and made the race what it was. A race of protheans, each with a personality. Not all geniuses, most not even smart. And one, who we know, nothing more than a soldier who had no chance of understanding the advanced concepts of the universe.

    The Krogan, well, I wouldn't have minded, but it'd have taken some wrangling depending on how it was done. And you get nothing for it. We know the Krogan culture. We have nothing more to learn from them. What we need from them we get from the guest stars and the mission. The new characters are well and truly new characters that we learn stuff from. Otherwise they're really the tried and true members of the Normany. With Vega we learn the army after we spent Mass Effect 1 learning the fleet. EDI gives us a look into a well and truly unleashed AI that has and was her own personality and is truly free and not a part of some other 'race-that-was-built-to-be-a-race', unlike Legion.
    Yes, him being Prothean has a certain appeal to it. I was just saying that they could have added another Krogan character. They wouldn't have needed these certain parameters. I just like Krogans, like I said, my argument (well more of a comment or joke initially) is completely subjective.

    I loved what they did with EDI in ME3. The encounters, and conversations were very good. Her relationship experiment with Joker was a particular highlight. Mostly why I don't want to ever do the supposed "perfect ending" that ultimately wipes out all synthetics including EDI and the Geth. I wish I could have seen more of Legion, got a lot more depth about the Geth in ME3 sure, at least the start of the Geth. I just barely even got to use him in ME2 and that was a big disappointment, him and Grunt are probably my favorite characters from ME2.
    Last edited by SturmChurro; July 12, 2014 at 12:36 PM.

  10. #150
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    My point about the Wrex- Canderous Comparison was also their people. If you really think about the Krogan culture/history/current situation, they basically carbon copied the Mandalorians from KotOR.

    -Warlike race full of tribes
    -Wage intergalactic war and are defeated
    -Slowly dying out and disunified, with most working as mercenaries across the galaxy
    -The Player Character can choose to help the party member in leading and unifying the race and restoring them to prominence

    To not say the krogan were basically copied from the Mandalorians would be to lie to yourself.
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  11. #151

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Who cares. I read enough sci-fi and fantasy that you can pick a race from any game that I can go to somewhere in my experiences, and say "This race is a carbon copy of that one and to say otherwise would be to lie to yourself."
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  12. #152

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Well, Javik literally was a random Prothean, but he was an awesome source of lore if you bother talking to him a lot. Which I did. And they nailed the spite against the Reapers for him. It's why I never complained about him and generally had issues with those that did. He took a way the veneer of the Prothean awesomeness that Mass Effect 1 built up with the mythos, and made the race what it was. A race of protheans, each with a personality. Not all geniuses, most not even smart. And one, who we know, nothing more than a soldier who had no chance of understanding the advanced concepts of the universe.
    I found Javik awesome, I had no reason to think he was simpleton, more like well educated, cold hearted, no sense warrior.

    It was so interesting to see Liarra burst out of anger, when she couldn't accept that not all Protheans are "Noble Scholars", hell only the Krogans seem more warlike.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind View Post
    I found Javik awesome, I had no reason to think he was simpleton, more like well educated, cold hearted, no sense warrior.

    It was so interesting to see Liarra burst out of anger, when she couldn't accept that not all Protheans are "Noble Scholars", hell only the Krogans seem more warlike.
    Well, when I described him I had no intention of describing a simpleton. I mean either an NCO or an officer who damn well knows what he's doing in a fight. But you try to hand him a paper on advanced science and ask him a question, he's going to look at it, then at you, lift an eyebrow, and ask you what the you expect him to be able to answer. Literally in those words no less. Because he's a soldier. The Protheans had a mythos attached to them as that of a race of geniuses, but he broke that to be that of a normal race. I loved that about him.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Who cares. I read enough sci-fi and fantasy that you can pick a race from any game that I can go to somewhere in my experiences, and say "This race is a carbon copy of that one and to say otherwise would be to lie to yourself."
    Exactly. does it matter realy?! it all comes down to in how it is presented, and implemented.
    Besides when i picture a Krogan, A mandalorian isnt what comes to my mind at first for some reason.
    Also mandalorian lore doesnt come from Kotor, mandalorians were mandalorians way before Kotor was arround. Not only mandalorians are pretty much high tech, and multi species. Besides the similarities, wich arent that obvious at first glance, i dont think Mandalorian, when i see krogan. Also from what i see their cultural dynamics are quite diferent, one is strongly philosophical, and individualistic,other is just reminiscent of true tribal costums, coming of age events etc.
    Its all details, but what isnt?!
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 13, 2014 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Hum female lead? i thought that was liara? wich is a cleary a mary sue, but then how about Ashley? I dont know i think you guys are trying to compare so much, that you are losing some perspective. Naturaly there is some sort of Type characters, but that doesnt mean they are all the same.
    I mean the only thing Miranda, Bastila, and Morrigan, have in comon is their young arrogance, that they are better then anyone else.
    Even so I have reservations, of Putting Miranda in the lot. Morrigan is highly amoral, Bastila is extremely Moral ( not without reason given she had a former sith lord as her companion), Miranda basicaly belives in what was doing, and later on changes her mind quite so.
    They are very diferent imo, not even the same type character imo. Besides their sexy voices.
    Liara is a Leliana. And she goes MIA in ME2, so it's hard to imagine her as having a lead role. Miranda goes away in ME3 as well, but I can't help but notice that all three characters were built from the same idea. Morrigan, Bastila, Miranda... they were created with the idea of being the female-lead in the game. You don't think it's enough they all are incredibly arrogant? Unhappy childhood? Check. Even Bastila shares some of that, in a moderate manner. They all have some sort of special skills that made them unique in the world they live in. They all have a personal quest that once completed makes them gradually melt in your hands, and thus getting in love with you. Also, when they first meet you, Miranda thinks you're an incompetent moron, Morrigan has to be forced to join your gang, and Bastila knows you're a menace to the universe, thus treating you with maximum caution. How convenient for a by the book love story.

    Also, they're choices about morality matters less here. We're not putting them into morality groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    But above all every kind of character will always be a type character no matter what. Thats how people are. If you are not unusual character, you are a "normal" character, like Jacob, Ashley, James, ken and gabby, adams, Dr Chakwas etc. They are Type characters too. And they are no less fun or memorable.
    Whataver kind of character you will put there will always be someone you will tag it and fit it a box, if you know my meaning. Either is a mentor, a mercenary/warrior type, a hunter a technitian, or engineer etc. The role doesnt make the character it only forms it, or models it.
    I wouldn't put all those characters in the same bag. Ken and gabby with Ashley? even if I don't really like her, I'd still have a lot more to say about her than most of those characters combined. And it took me a few minutes to remember that adams was the engineer.
    No.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    I wouldn't put all those characters in the same bag. Ken and gabby with Ashley? even if I don't really like her, I'd still have a lot more to say about her than most of those characters combined. And it took me a few minutes to remember that adams was the engineer.
    Same type, being more generic, or normal, or Usual. Ashley is a much more developed character naturaly, but in truth isnt much more remarkable, and i dont say this ina negative way, im saying she is ajusta a normal soldier, like vega for isntance. She isnt like Tali, Liara, wrex, Garrus etc, those are much more remarkable, or unique in their form. Thats what i meant. Adams is just an engineer, and ashley is just a soldier, only you know more about her.
    Garus isnt a simply Turian, wrex definitly isnt a simple Krogan nor tali is a simple quarian.
    Its not if the character is more or less developed, its same type of character.
    Liara is a Leliana.
    Lol no. liara is cleary a mary sue, there is a strong indication, that is also the romantic canon, and the most important person, from shepard point of view. There is clear signs of that across the games. Liara isnt part of the normandy crew in ME2, yet is part of the best more developed, and detailed DLC in ME2. Not only you get a Special HUB with liara in it, you have her in the team during the dlc story, and you may have her as an event enconter in the normandy cabin. There isnt a character that the writters seem to like more.
    It also depends of what you mean as leader. Miranda, indeed has a leader personality, her character in the history however isnt a major leader. Youdont even get to have her in your team in ME3. ( armax games doesnt count)
    Story wise, Liara seems more influencial. across all fo the 3 games.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 13, 2014 at 03:21 AM.

  17. #157
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Liara got a bit better later on, but in the first game I felt her voice acting fell a bit flat.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    Liara got a bit better later on, but in the first game I felt her voice acting fell a bit flat.
    I liked her voice acting. It was awkward just like her character.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Adams is just an engineer, and ashley is just a soldier
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Either is a mentor, a mercenary/warrior type, a hunter a technitian, or engineer etc. The role doesnt make the character it only forms it, or models it. .
    I'm having trouble with this. Also, whatever I called Ashley, kaidan, Jacob or James, I never had to resort to "the soldier", "the technician" like I had to with Gabby, the doc, and adams. Ashley is the racist freak, Kaidan is like a dog, man's best friend, but turned into a human, Jacob works out and stays fit, and James is a college frat-guy that joined the army. I'm being comical here, but I have to say there's a big gap between some of the minor crew on the ship, and these guys. And none of your squad can only be summed up by his profession.

    Regarding Liara, I guess it's up to anyone. Personally, I didn't pay much attention to her and I didn't feel like she was such a vital person to my Shepard. You felt different. It's all a matter of taste.
    No.

  20. #160

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    Liara got a bit better later on, but in the first game I felt her voice acting fell a bit flat.
    Who cares about her voice acting. Look at the writing. Liara is on the level of the PC for how much importance she's given. She's practically the avatar of the writers in the same sense that the PC is the avatar of the player. Knight of Heaven nailed it, in that all you need is that she's the one character that got a guest role in a game she wasn't in. Ashley/Kaiden? (S)he damn near wants to kill you after certain events in ME3 and might force your hand if you didn't play your cards right. You've gotta talk them down and earn their trust again. Liara has an implicit trust for Shepard ever since ME1, and in spite of the fact that he's doing a job for Cerberus in ME2 because their needs happen to align just this once she'll work with him and go after Shadow Broker because she still trusts him. The same can possibly be argued for Wrex but that's mostly because holy god Wrex had fun working with Shepard as opposed to well and truly trusting him, and I'm not sure he gives two ----- about Cerberus, but he's got responsibilities now. Ashley sees Cerberus, and just goes WTF, and reports it. At that point Shepard mostly shrugs and goes 'I'm a Spectre with a job, do what you need to', but whatever. He and Liara just keep working. As a unit no less. I almost suspect that the writers regret not bringing Liara in as a main character in ME2 and making the Shadow Broker her Loyalty mission after she got F'ed in the A by him earlier in the lore.

    The crazy part is you really can't point to any one thing or series of things that justifies this deep seated trust. Relationship? Well, even if you had one with Ashley/Kaiden, they'll come back swinging in ME2/ME3 if you don't play your cards right. It's not like Shepard killed his own damn brother to keep her alive, and she became a living breathing Chewbacca archetype. I mean, she hadn't spoken to her mother in YEARS, so while she was grateful Shepard freed her mother from that Reaper mind control, even if he had to kill her, something's still missing because hell if Shepard hadn't done that for many others who'd just walked off. The trust is just there.
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 13, 2014 at 09:40 AM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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