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Thread: Bioware characters

  1. #21

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    I enjoy their earlier characters from the fantasy games. Tiax and Xzar, Edwin, Minsc, etc.


    I also think that their games are like B or C movie level storylines, their writing is only marginally better than other games and so gets way overblown on how good it is. The attraction to Bioware games was always the gameplay, the polish, the world creation, character customization, and the strategy. Which is large part why games like DA2 and Jade Empire are not considered as good as the other games. They are severely lacking in those categories. Jade Empires story is no worse than any of the other games, it's just a regular run around beat em up game. KOTOR also is the most overblown game of all time in terms of story and interaction but it's world and gameplay system are very entertaining.
    Last edited by Kanaric; October 27, 2013 at 11:13 AM.
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  2. #22
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Not sure how I managed to miss this topic so long.. its a good topic though.

    Can't commend much on the baldur's gate games, still need to play them. I have both but the first has trouble starting up, and I do want to play the first before the second.

    But I did play all the others..

    -Neverwinter Nights.
    Say about the campaign what you will, but the player character is very fleshed out here. Theres many responses here and being good does not equal naive. You can be a lawfull good palladin and still be badass. Also, there is unique dialogue here based on your class and race. Even "stupid" dialogue if your intelligence is really low. It all adds to making your character a real person, the true focus of the story instead of just being some bland action hero. You can be just that yes, but you can also be so much more. Never again was a Bioware protagionist this fleshed out, I truly do think Bioware should have kept the lawfull/chaotic axis around.

    As for companions, they where interesting for the most part. Tommi was a loveable rogue, Daelan was interesting despite being the typical honourable warrior, Shaerwin was more than just the pretty lady, she is believeable as knowing how to fend for herself. She's everything Leanna in dragon age is not. And Linu is just fantastic, very funny.

    KOTOR had a good cast too, it also made sense why they came along with you.
    Mission and Zaalbar where great together, Mission certainly had her great moments. Funny, but also with heart. Zaalbar was nothing without Mission though, a very boring character that only has a bit more to him on his homeworld.
    I liked Canderous, a war veteran who really gave me the idea he had seen a lot. A shame female revan couldnt romance him.
    Juhanni whined too much for my taste, I kind of wanted there to be the option for her to revert to darkness if you where dark. But she just whines and whines.
    Jolee Bindo is a great character, the best of this game for certain. An original take on light and dark. Hes a good person in his own way, hes an ex jedi with personality.
    Bastilla was also a good character. Very entitled, but it works with her. Also, the romance with her is slowly building up. It makes sense. In recent games Bioware has not been able to put any feeling in the romances anymore.
    HK-47 was good in this game, sadly his succes caused him to be overused in later games. Even spawned a terrible rip off in dragon age in the form of a golem. Still, great character here.
    Carth was kind of meh. He worked better when you are female and romance him. His romance actually is pretty great. But hes just too emo when you are a guy.

    Malak was an alright villain, not too amazing either, but way better than the over the top cartoon villains of The Old Republic. He did very much fit into the star wars theme as seen in the movies.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    I think Kotor 2 had the best one that is Kreia, however it isnt exactly Bioware. But Sara Castleman the actress is simply phenomenal in the role.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    I loved baldurs gates characters, especially Minsc and Boo.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric View Post
    I enjoy their earlier characters from the fantasy games. Tiax and Xzar, Edwin, Minsc, etc.


    I also think that their games are like B or C movie level storylines, their writing is only marginally better than other games and so gets way overblown on how good it is. The attraction to Bioware games was always the gameplay, the polish, the world creation, character customization, and the strategy. Which is large part why games like DA2 and Jade Empire are not considered as good as the other games. They are severely lacking in those categories. Jade Empires story is no worse than any of the other games, it's just a regular run around beat em up game. KOTOR also is the most overblown game of all time in terms of story and interaction but it's world and gameplay system are very entertaining.
    I think you underestimate how crap the writing is in 90% of games. Yes, Bioware's is far better than the average, that's not hard when the average is so bad but it is the reason they get this acclaim.

    Just consider that a longstanding company like Bethesda famous for RPGs has not managed to get anywhere close in the storytelling department. The only contender in that game category seems to me The Witcher which might be considered superior to Bioware but that's really it. Outside RPGs most other genres don't even bother, Starcraft etc. might be on a similar level concerning cinematic storytelling but is not dynamic. There are some triple A titles that kind of aim at higher cineastic appearance but they are usually entirely linear and consist of completely railroaded setpieces. The best they might achieve is Michael Bay level and that is easily beaten by B or C movies.

    I don't really see much competition.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  6. #26
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Thing is, even the best stories in videogames tend to still have too many errors to ever be compared to true masterpiece movies.

    The best videogame stories seem to be at best on par with a standard hollywood film.

    Nothing of it ever comes close to something like Citizen Kane, A clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, Cassablanca, Lawrence of Arabia, or other such immortal classics.

    Personly, I did not like Kreia as much because she ruined the story. The character is interesting on its own, but it messes up the story quite badly. You can clearly see shes up to no good in cutscenes, but you cant confront her about it, you cant get rid of her while all logic dictates you should. Also, she didnt seem to stand any chance against Sion and got her hand cut off without a fight even occuring, yet later she kills three experienced jedi masters without even trying. Thats just beyond rediculous, a lame plot device that renders the players decision wether to save or kill these masters earlier moot. It ends up the same anyways after all.

    But back to Bioware.

    Moving onto Jade Empire, I feel this was the most emotional experience to me.
    A lot of humor here, but also emotion.. it showed a lot of improvements over KOTOR technically. More facial expressions, and a lot more animations. While a kiss and other animations like lifting a guy's arm to see a wound where happening during a black screen in KOTOR, here where such things all visible.

    Player character was a bit dull, though I liked how the closed fist path was not evil. It simply was about everyone for themselves. You'd be able to encourage people to fight their own battles instead of letting you do it for them.

    Companions where some of Bioware's best though.
    Hen Pecked Hao had his stories about his overbearing wife. Lots of fun, at the credits you hear him comeing home to his wife who complaints about him being gone for so long.
    The Black wirlwind keeps telling stories which always seem to end with him killing everyone.
    Sky has a dramatic side to him, but also a playfull side. He seems like a real person, really liked him.
    Sagacious Zu had a certain depth to him, secrets you only find out later. He remained quite a mystery though, a more subtle character but amazing.

    In later games, it seems every character must have some dumb gimmick. Rare to find any believeable people in later games. Backgrounds and personalities rarely match up anymore.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    though I liked how the closed fist path was not evil. It simply was about everyone for themselves. You'd be able to encourage people to fight their own battles instead of letting you do it for them.
    The whole debate about the paths was something I found really well done, too. Especially because you can find people in the game who are "masters" of each path, if you will, who will not only tell you what their path entails and how you follow it, but also how many people inside the game universe actually misinterpret them completely, like most of the bad guys following exactly the wrong interpretation of the Closed Fist. That kind of self-referential philosophical debate is pretty rare, especially when it's handled not as one of the primary elements of the story, but more as an aside that actually matters a lot in the grand picture.

  8. #28
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    It is yes, A closed fist master could actually be a hero, but more the stern one. I really like how somewhere you can encourage a girl to fight the man that enslaved her, to free herself and her mother. And she does win. So through that you taught a girl to fend for herself. You cant always be around to solve everyone's problems after all so I really like how closed fist is a very logical path when you think of it.
    The many different martial arts fighters using these philosophies also helped flesh it out.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    This thread reminded me how much I hate(d) Harbinger. Whenever someone claims that ME series is this deep profound SF before ME3 ending ruined it, I just wanna punch them while quoting Harbinger.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind View Post
    This thread reminded me how much I hate(d) Harbinger. Whenever someone claims that ME series is this deep profound SF before ME3 ending ruined it, I just wanna punch them while quoting Harbinger.
    where it all began so to speak...
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    I know you feel this Shepard.

  12. #32
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Bioware characters

    ME has been a mixed bag from the start to be honest. in ME1 it still lacked its own identity somewhat, it looked mostly like a generic science fiction setting but in part 2 they really managed to get the setting locked down and give it more its own feel. But also harbinger.

    Bioware isnt as great anymore with enemies as they used to be.. in both dragon age and mass effect you fight mostly against dumb mindless hordes of generic enemies. Occasionaly theres a good antagionist along with it, but there just are not enough.

    I mean.. in Jade Empire there are many good antagionists. Gao the Lesser is a fantastic villain, you can really feel the emotions in his voice as he grows more desperate. The first imperial assasin you find is also an interesting character that leaves an impact and hints at greater evils stirring. There's also the emperor, Death's Hand, an antagionist I wont spoil, and a lot of minor villains that really leave their mark.
    When most enemies are dumb fodder, you just wont get much of that.

    Gues I am just a bit tired of the player saving the world from some dumb evil things and that I crave to fight more "human" opponents. It allows for more interesting interactions.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Title of thread should just be changed to Mass Effect characters.

    Because, I mean, there's no commentary at all on any of Bioware's best characters. At all. For shame.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    And what are Biowares best characters in your opinion? If there's a lack of something, why not fill it in yourself...

  15. #35

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    And what are Biowares best characters in your opinion? If there's a lack of something, why not fill it in yourself...


    Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, Jan, Sarevok

    You know what, just look into the Baldur's Gate Trilogy story yourself.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangalore View Post
    I think you underestimate how crap the writing is in 90% of games. Yes, Bioware's is far better than the average, that's not hard when the average is so bad but it is the reason they get this acclaim.

    Just consider that a longstanding company like Bethesda famous for RPGs has not managed to get anywhere close in the storytelling department. The only contender in that game category seems to me The Witcher which might be considered superior to Bioware but that's really it. Outside RPGs most other genres don't even bother, Starcraft etc. might be on a similar level concerning cinematic storytelling but is not dynamic. There are some triple A titles that kind of aim at higher cineastic appearance but they are usually entirely linear and consist of completely railroaded setpieces. The best they might achieve is Michael Bay level and that is easily beaten by B or C movies.

    I don't really see much competition.
    As a total aside, it's things like this is why Obsidian Entertainment has a free hand with Pillars of Eternity. They got their own funding from kickstarter, and don't have a publisher over their shoulder. They can actually do the writing now. Same for inXile Entertainment and Tides of Numenera.

    But then, your first mistake is comparing it to other mediums anyway. Games are their own style. Just like movies run into their own mess when they try to port a story from a book(yea, everybody remembers sci-fi channel's Dune, right?). Let's not try to pretend that the gaming medium is ever going to do the same thing as the movie or book where everything is under the complete control of the writer or director. When you have to give player control of the medium and give him a story where he's got control of that medium, and give him a story where he's interacting with that medium, things are going to be a helluva lot different, and things are still being figured out as far as trying to actually treat things seriously. Forget the idea of trying to convince critics as a whole to even treat things seriously. That will take even longer.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, Jan, Sarevok
    You know what, just look into the Baldur's Gate Trilogy story yourself.
    I know it - I've played through it all, in fact. Doesn't mean I can read your mind, or that I have to agree.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    I know it - I've played through it all, in fact. Doesn't mean I can read your mind, or that I have to agree.
    What? Am I supposed to apologize for responding to the OP without quoting it? Too damn bad. Guy makes a Bioware thread while humping on Mass Effect's leg as if that's the only game series they've made. When they've done better writing in other trilogies to boot. And I'm not talking about just the last five minutes of ME3 dragging it down. I'm talking about people thinking material from the start of ME1 being the best in the trilogy. There was better Bioware. But that's about all this guy knows about. And he won't do any research because to him Bioware IS Mass Effect.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    As a total aside, it's things like this is why Obsidian Entertainment has a free hand with Pillars of Eternity. They got their own funding from kickstarter, and don't have a publisher over their shoulder. They can actually do the writing now. Same for inXile Entertainment and Tides of Numenera.

    But then, your first mistake is comparing it to other mediums anyway. Games are their own style. Just like movies run into their own mess when they try to port a story from a book(yea, everybody remembers sci-fi channel's Dune, right?). Let's not try to pretend that the gaming medium is ever going to do the same thing as the movie or book where everything is under the complete control of the writer or director. When you have to give player control of the medium and give him a story where he's got control of that medium, and give him a story where he's interacting with that medium, things are going to be a helluva lot different, and things are still being figured out as far as trying to actually treat things seriously. Forget the idea of trying to convince critics as a whole to even treat things seriously. That will take even longer.
    Analogies are not comparisons. The basic premises of story and narrative are still the same, just the toolboxes change.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
    Mangalore Design

  20. #40

    Default Re: Bioware characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangalore View Post
    Analogies are not comparisons. The basic premises of story and narrative are still the same, just the toolboxes change.
    Except comparing them leaves you out of luck because for the most part unless, say, Frank Herbert wanted to make Dune(the first book alone, not the series) ten times as long, he couldn't have made it work for a computer game because he couldn't have accounted for the choices of the player, or just the world exploration, or the sidequests. And all the games from movies just sort of drag you through the story instead of letting you have any real choice. Meh. It's an entirely different ball game. It's not an analogy. It's a fail.

    There's a reason the better games are their own damn world and stories.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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