Gate to another dimension

[Niles Crane]

http://www.livescience.com/forcesofn...ack_holes.html

I sincerely hope they don't do this. As awesome as it may be.

[Giurza]

oh man... I shrug my shoulders at this... they start to stick their finger into the unknown and BANG the earth is no more... I know I sound anti scientific... but I am terrified...

[Valentin the II]

COOL!
I say let them do it!
Without scientific progres we arenothting, and if we die, so be it!
I feel that this thing could solve many of the mistaries of the uinverse and realy help humanity.
I totaly support it!

[carl-the-conqueror]

at the unveilling they will find a missing proton accelerator, and i will have the worlds first dooms day device mua ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

[Handsome Huss]

That sounds soooo sinister: The Lifeboat Foundation.

I just know that one of two things will happen..
Either, A) At some Save The Planet protest outside of the facility, some long haired rebellious hippy will break into the lab, screw something up, destabalize a black hole and destroy the planet.
Or, B) The Lifeboat Foundation is really headed by some evil, fiendish Dr. Doom type who uses the false appearance of a happy baby kissing organization to really unravel his own sinister agenda, which, in this case, is to take over a black hole and hold the world ransom for one hundred billion dollars. The Foundation will be like his own army of monkeys, because they will think they are doing a good thing right up until the moment the UN QRF storms his evil island hide-away fortress, but fails to bring him down in time to stop him from pressing the red button which triggers the simultaneous detonation of 392 black holes all around the world.

[RZZZA]

oh man... I shrug my shoulders at this... they start to stick their finger into the unknown and BANG the earth is no more... I know I sound anti scientific... but I am terrified...

But this mentality is counterproductive in the longrun, our chief goal as a race now is purely survival. We must avoid any threats to our existence, be they nuclear war or other delving into "dangerous science". We are at a crossroads in terms of mankind, our technology is outgrowing our wisdom and we must survive past this phase of technological adolescence.

[Ummon]

For one thing, theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking calculated all black holes should emit radiation, and that tiny black holes should lose more mass than they absorb, evaporating within a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, "before they could gobble up any significant amount of matter," Landsberg said.

Not destroyed yet

CERN spokesman and former research physicist James Gillies also pointed out that Earth is bathed with cosmic rays powerful enough to create black holes all the time, and the planet hasn't been destroyed yet.

"Still, let's assume that even if Hawking is a genius, he's wrong, and that such black holes are more stable," Landsberg said. Nearly all of the black holes will be traveling fast enough from the accelerator to escape Earth's gravity. "Even if you produced 10 million black holes a year, only 10 would basically get trapped, orbiting around its center," Landsberg said.

However, such trapped black holes are so tiny, they could pass through a block of iron the distance from the Earth to the Moon and not hit anything. They would each take about 100 hours to gobble up one proton.

At that rate, even if one did not take into account the fact that each black hole would slow down every time it gobbled up a proton, and thus suck down matter at an even slower rate, "about 100 protons would be destroyed every year by such a black hole, so it would take much more than the age of universe to destroy even one milligram of Earth material," Landsberg concluded. "It's quite hard to destroy the Earth."

If the Large Hadron Collider does create black holes, not only will it prove that extra dimensions of the universe exist, but the radiation that decaying black holes emit could yield clues that help finally unite all the current ideas about the forces of nature under a "theory of everything."

All perfectly true.

[Niles Crane]

All perfectly true.

But you do realise that they're going to be running the machine for 20 years?

[Lee1026]

And the problem here is....

[Simetrical]

Okay, let's do a bit of science review here. Everyone knows that a typical black hole could gobble up the earth. Why? Because it's extremely massive, several times as massive as the sun. What people commonly don't get is that this is the only reason black holes could suck up the earth: they're vastly more massive. If the sun suddenly turned into a black hole, then the earth's orbit would be completely unaffected, because gravity depends only on mass, and the sun wouldn't gain any mass just by becoming a black hole.

Now, what we're talking about is a black hole made up of a few particles. How much mass does that have? Almost none. Therefore, its gravitational field will not be sufficient to affect much of anything. Indeed, it will have no more effect on the earth than the particles would had they not become a black hole. The only difference would be that they absorb all the light and matter that strikes them instead of reflecting it. In theory, then, they would grow over time if not for Hawking radiation, but realistically such small black holes would be very unstable anyway: otherwise they would already exist without our intervention.

Suggesting that creating artificial black holes carries some danger to the earth, frankly, is roughly on the same level as saying that production of too many hula hoops will cause the sun to go nova: it's a complete non sequitur that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of everything relevant to the situation.

[Giurza]

Okay, let's do a bit of science review here. Everyone knows that a typical black hole could gobble up the earth. Why? Because it's extremely massive, several times as massive as the sun. What people commonly don't get is that this is the only reason black holes could suck up the earth: they're vastly more massive. If the sun suddenly turned into a black hole, then the earth's orbit would be completely unaffected, because gravity depends only on mass, and the sun wouldn't gain any mass just by becoming a black hole.

Now, what we're talking about is a black hole made up of a few particles. How much mass does that have? Almost none. Therefore, its gravitational field will not be sufficient to affect much of anything. Indeed, it will have no more effect on the earth than the particles would had they not become a black hole. The only difference would be that they absorb all the light and matter that strikes them instead of reflecting it. In theory, then, they would grow over time if not for Hawking radiation, but realistically such small black holes would be very unstable anyway: otherwise they would already exist without our intervention.

Suggesting that creating artificial black holes carries some danger to the earth, frankly, is roughly on the same level as saying that production of too many hula hoops will cause the sun to go nova: it's a complete non sequitur that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of everything relevant to the situation.

I don't wanna get too scientific but as I know gravity depends quite much on mass-volume ratio (I know there is specific term for that...) ah!! yeas the density. take a look at some binary systems where one of the starts becomes a black hole. before this they were peacefully orbitting around an unmaterial spot in a space without effecting much on each other besides their common contribution to making a mutual orbit. A/M=a/m ring the bell. but as soon as one of them becomes a black hole I know that it will begin to suck others material into itself... now I am no good astrophisic so correct me if I am wrong but gravity does depend on density

[Ummon]

I don't wanna get too scientific but as I know gravity depends quite much on mass-volume ratio (I know there is specific term for that...) ah!! yeas the density. take a look at some binary systems where one of the starts becomes a black hole. before this they were peacefully orbitting around an unmaterial spot in a space without effecting much on each other besides their common contribution to making a mutual orbit. A/M=a/m ring the bell. but as soon as one of them becomes a black hole I know that it will begin to suck others material into itself... now I am no good astrophisic so correct me if I am wrong but gravity does depend on density

The fact is that such micro black-holes would:

1) evaporate quickly
2) have an intense gravity only near their event horizon
3) be no threat

I would get worried only if experiment went on for, lets say, 10^100000000000000000000000...0 years...

[Lee1026]

I don't wanna get too scientific but as I know gravity depends quite much on mass-volume ratio (I know there is specific term for that...) ah!! yeas the density. take a look at some binary systems where one of the starts becomes a black hole. before this they were peacefully orbitting around an unmaterial spot in a space without effecting much on each other besides their common contribution to making a mutual orbit. A/M=a/m ring the bell. but as soon as one of them becomes a black hole I know that it will begin to suck others material into itself... now I am no good astrophisic so correct me if I am wrong but gravity does depend on density

Gravity depend on mass, and nothing but mass.

[Simetrical]

I don't wanna get too scientific but as I know gravity depends quite much on mass-volume ratio (I know there is specific term for that...) ah!! yeas the density. take a look at some binary systems where one of the starts becomes a black hole. before this they were peacefully orbitting around an unmaterial spot in a space without effecting much on each other besides their common contribution to making a mutual orbit. A/M=a/m ring the bell. but as soon as one of them becomes a black hole I know that it will begin to suck others material into itself... now I am no good astrophisic so correct me if I am wrong but gravity does depend on density

It does not. The Newtonian formula for the force of gravity is

where the m's are the masses of the two objects, G is a universal constant that can be ignored for this purpose, and d is the distance between the two objects' centers of gravity. The size of the object is therefore strictly irrelevant, with one catch: it does place a lower limit on d and thus an upper limit on the force. The distance between the earth's center of gravity and another object's can never be lower than about 4000 miles (no, digging doesn't help, but that's too far off topic), so the gravitational acceleration it exerts on other objects can't be more than about 9.8 m/s². If it were one inch across (or some hundreds of millions of times smaller) but with the same mass, then the acceleration it could exert would be quadrillions of times greater.

So yes, density does make a difference of sorts, even if not directly. But there's a limit to how much density can affect things. According to the standard model of particle physics, every elementary particle is a point: it takes up no space at all. But most of them still have mass. Clearly, this means that their density is infinite, but as you can see, not everything exerts unlimited gravity on everything else. The basic idea is that while gravity increases when distance decreases, counteracting forces normally increase even more as distance decreases, overpowering gravity at small distances and so keeping things from being sucked into the same point: a black hole.

The typical trigger condition for a black hole is overwhelming mass plus the absence of the relatively intense counteracting energies found within a live star. Then gravity overcomes other forces, and all the particles reach the same point. In artificial black hole creation, the trigger for black hole formation will be somewhat different (although I don't claim to know exactly what it is), so not much mass is needed and therefore nothing more than a very small distance away will be sucked in.

[Osceola]

Is anyone else (that believes in Hell as another dimension) scared of sometihng happening with these things similar to whats portrayed in the movie "Event Horizon"?

[PacSubCom]

The topic title is misleading. There are no "dimensions" one can open a portal to, these collider dudes mean the higher dimensions this universe has (or maybe has).

[engtjuay]

Gravity depend on mass, and nothing but mass.

if gravity depends soly on mass, why do they even conclude that a black hole will occur? because if just a few particles could create a blackhole, wouldn't every single thing be a blackhole? im pretty new to this topic so pardon me if i am ignorant in any way

[Lee1026]

because most things have such a low density that even at their surface you can escape.

[engtjuay]

so gravity depends on density, not solely on mass right?

[Simetrical]

No. Gravity depends on mass and distance. As for why they think a black hole will appear, they aren't sure it will, and the theory is very complicated. If such a black hole does appear, it won't have formed in the same manner as normal black holes.