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Thread: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

  1. #161

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    Moved all the discussion about Shield's changes to a new thread.
    People who enter here normally wants to read about CapnDan's changes. For Shield's changes, please use this other topic:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-s-addon/page3

  2. #162

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    So I'm just casually working away on last little changes for V2.7 (which itself is mostly just composed of little bits of polish here and there), and had a couple of thoughts I might like feedback on.

    1. Elite Spears Formation Issues:
    Most of the elite spear units in the mod have their formation settings reversed (ie. click 'loose' and they tighten up formation). This was done initially to counter cavalry attacks against those units in muliplayer but the major drawbacks are that most players will never figure this out (judging by the several times it has been reported on the forums as a bug) and that the AI will likely never be able to use it properly.

    So, my thought here was to just give these elite spear units a slightly closer base formation and a not so loose loose formation. Just to clear up confusion and allow the AI to use these more effectively on a more regular basis


    2. Invincible Sauron:
    The Campaigns Addon already changes Sauron's battle invincibility from Mordor with 5+ settlements to being based on Dol-Guldur and Minas Morgul. But, I did find this makes it a bit too straightforward to eliminate Sauron and Mordor.

    Some of my most interesting/exciting battles have been the ones where I engaged Sauron but forgot to take the required settlements to make him vulnreble, where I fired every arrow I had at him and sacrificed a handful of infantry units before I realized I couldn't beat him. I think I'd like to introduce this level of random chance to the game (and also increase perceived danger of Sauron) by adding in at totally random maybe 25% chance that Sauron be invincible in a battle.

    Thoughts?

  3. #163

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    Good points. In both cases, one of the problems is that this kind of things are not really documented anywhere in the mod.

    1) You are surely right. In that case, I'd vote to just replace the tight formation by a standard loose formation. I'd avoid the idea of a "slightly closer base formation" because that would not be effective against cavalry and it'd be surely worse against infantry too (less chances to flank the soldiers of enemy units).

    2) I agree that the rule of 5+ settlements looks a bit arbitrary. I don't remember if battle invincibility can depend on a random chance. If so, maybe the chance can be related to the number of settlements owned by mordor, so the less regions controlled by mordor, the less chances for Sauron to be invulnerable. For example something like:
    1 region = 50%, 2 = 60%, 3 = 70%, 4 = 80%, 5 or more regions = 90% invincible

  4. #164

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    Thanks Bardo, for the reply.

    For spear formations, I did some testing and there definitely seems to be some advantages to a closer formation in terms of defensive ability and staying power (ability for hold a line for longer), even just vs other infantry. I wonder do you happen to know if there is any hard coded penalty for being in 'loose' formation? Or does the penalty generate dynamically just based on unit interactions with each other? So far based on this I'm inclined to just leave the formations all as is - a small easter egg/quirk for longtime players to discover maybe.

    As to Sauron's invinvibility, I've simply done the following in scripts and based on a quick little bit of testing it seems to work out just fine:

    monitor_event BattleConflictPhaseCommenced not I_LocalFaction romans_julii
    if I_SettlementOwner Dol_Guldur = romans_julii
    ;and I_SettlementOwner Minas_Morgul = romans_julii
    console_command invulnerable_general Sauron
    end_if

    if not I_SettlementOwner Dol_Guldur = romans_julii
    and RandomPercent < 33
    console_command invulnerable_general Sauron
    end_if
    end_monitor

  5. #165

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    The script looks good. I'm not sure if this chance of invulnerability is going to discourage rush attacks to try to kill Sauron early in game. But I like the Dol guldur requirement, it might do the job.

    I wonder do you happen to know if there is any hard coded penalty for being in 'loose' formation?
    As far as I know, it is based on unit interactions as you say, and I didn't test it enough to know if there is an optimal distance.

    In my tests, when the formation is too loose, the enemy soldiers can break the first line more easily, soldiers of both sides end mixed, and that is not good for units with defense based on shield or defending skill bonuses. Neither it is good for units with low morale because they might be considered flanked/surrounded.

    Tight formations are good to hold the position and stand against enemy charges, but they reduce the width of the unit, and make it easier for the enemy to surround the entire army, that is why I do not like them for AI armies. Another disadvantage is the attacks from monsters with area effect, or with projectiles.

    However, if you have tested these elite spear units with closer formations and you noticed an improvement, then your suggestion might work better than the current setting. I like the idea that at least your addon includes this fix, for people who consider it a bug.

  6. #166

    Default Re: LotR-TW Campaigns Addon V2.6 (for v3.0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    The script looks good. I'm not sure if this chance of invulnerability is going to discourage rush attacks to try to kill Sauron early in game. But I like the Dol guldur requirement, it might do the job.
    Sauron's invincibility dependant on Dol Guldur (with scripted reminders to the player and everything) was one of the first things I'd puzzled on waaay back in the earliest versions of the Addon.

    As for spear formations, I'll maybe puzzle around with it a bit and see what I can turn up.

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