Black Sails (Season 4 trailer)

[Halie Satanus]

In a way I wish that the series had created more fictional pirates that did not have to (generally) lead to Treasure Island. My knowledge of that book made it clear that Billy survived falling into the ocean, so his return, while nice, was not a surprise.

It also kind of sucks knowing what happens to all of these people in general, but such is the nature of historical shows.

If I recall correctly Billy is the first person we hear of in Treasure Island, though far from the character of this show.

Without knowing what happens next it feels like the show turned a corner in the last episode. I imagine whatever horrors Flint committed in the past will pale in comparison to his renewed need for vengeance.

[TestudoAubreii]

I couldn't care less he had an affair with the husband of the woman he was having an affair with. What bugged me was that it came out of nowhere, added nothing to any of the characters and just seemed thrown in for shock value. But then none of the motives for Flint's behaviour hold up to scrutiny. If I'm following it right, he wants the Spanish gold so he can rid the island of the pirates and make it an influential trading port with inland farms so he can turn round to the admiralty and tell them his friend Thomas was right. Or he could build a big mansion with peacocks roaming the lawn and a unicorn to ride on the weekends.

I just want to see vicious pirates storming merchant ships and being chased by war ships.

I know this post is a few weeks old, but I thought I would respond. The writers, and even Toby Stephens, knew this was the story the entire time. The story was written before they started filming. I think that is apparent now, especially after episode 9. I, too, thought it may have been for shock value until I read that the relationship and the story was planned all along.

I think this is an amazing show and episode 9 was pretty great!

[tarvu]

I've liked this show from the beginning, the character development in Silver is a highlight for me. I absolutely relish in how many people slammed his casting in the first season, but like the Flint storyline it was a well scripted and planned out development of his character to the point where I think he is about as close to perfect as you can get. Certainly better than any of the previous actors, and watching him on his road to becoming captain is now the big draw for me in the show.

This is why Starz and HBO and other premium models just work for making good drama. If you had listened to this board, or ratings, critics etc. in the first season it would have been quickly canceled as it would have on ad revenue based network or cable. I think I'd rather have a show that gets this good late in its development, than some flash in the pan series that then becomes incredibly mediocre as it rides that initial wave of popularity propelling it right over the proverbial shark.

Writers/Creative with a plan, and a studio that allows them to develop it on their own terms without interference and pandering to critics? Who would have thought such a radical arrangement could produce quality entertainment except every creator ever to work in the business. Yet billions of dollars, and countless projects in Hollywood and elsewhere are lost to the bloated dysfunctional execubureaucracy. It is the audience's fault for being so fickle, they are the real enemy of any creative talent.

It is a shame how barren entertainment would be without unlikely success stories, especially as people read less and so getting work to the masses means an expensive production requiring the cooperation of many people. Now I think people have to recognize the need for/value of artistic freedom even for such "commercial" products as broad appeal television shows or movies. It is a trend and it could radically restructure not only much of the entertainment industry, but dramatically transform popular culture like never before in human history. Mass media in the hands of talented people with artistic and creative vision rather than skinner boxes and paneling.


They have saved us all from gathering at the the Cinema of Sensation as we snack on our Soma and melt into something that no longer cares about anything.

[Halie Satanus]

I know this post is a few weeks old, but I thought I would respond. The writers, and even Toby Stephens, knew this was the story the entire time. The story was written before they started filming. I think that is apparent now, especially after episode 9. I, too, thought it may have been for shock value until I read that the relationship and the story was planned all along.

I think this is an amazing show and episode 9 was pretty great!

As the catalyst for Flint's motivations it seems pretty flimsy. I'm not even convinced the father 'Alfred Hamilton' would have used his sons proclivities as leverage to scupper his plans. He would have lost as much if not more face having Thomas's homosexuality exposed, and with that exposure Lady Hamilton would have been absolved of any rumours of her infidelities. The only way I see it being relevant is if we get to see what happened to Thomas after his arrest, we know he was sent to an asylum and committed suicide but it feels like there could have been more story there. Flint went on to become the most feared (after Black Beard) Pirate of all, because his lover was dammed by the establishment. Bit thin imo..

I'm kind of hoping we get a few episodes of that period from Thomas's arrest to the start of this series, especially Flint's rise to prominence, seems to me that's where the real story was.

[tarvu]

As the catalyst for Flint's motivations it seems pretty flimsy. I'm not even convinced the father 'Alfred Hamilton' would have used his sons proclivities as leverage to scupper his plans. He would have lost as much if not more face having Thomas's homosexuality exposed, and with that exposure Lady Hamilton would have been absolved of any rumours of her infidelities. The only way I see it being relevant is if we get to see what happened to Thomas after his arrest, we know he was sent to an asylum and committed suicide but it feels like there could have been more story there. Flint went on to become the most feared (after Black Beard) Pirate of all, because his lover was dammed by the establishment. Bit thin imo..

I'm kind of hoping we get a few episodes of that period from Thomas's arrest to the start of this series, especially Flint's rise to prominence, seems to me that's where the real story was.

Do you watch the show?

They clearly explained the plot. He wasn't outed publicly as a homosexual, he was hospitalized due to grief over the reports of the infidelity which is what was told to the navy (scene with the admiral and Flint) and others. Being married to a gay man also obviously wouldn't absolve Lady Hamilton of rumors that she was an adulterer, why on Earth would you think that? She isn't gay, if anything her having a gay husband (and he might have been bisexual for all we know like Flint) would only encourage her to seek an affair outside of the marriage. She also did have an affair with Flint, both her and Thomas did. So the rumors about her were true.

Again Hamilton used the affair in public, and possibly though it is never explained as leverage behind the scenes with certain people the knowledge that his son was a homosexual. But I kind of seriously doubt this. Alfred Hamilton hated his son because he was gay. He had him locked up because he was gay. He exposed his wife and Flint because his son was gay.

Contrary to your assumption, he is very afraid of that knowledge becoming public (because of a slip up by Thomas or Flint, or the attention his wife's public reputation brings on them exposing it) or it becoming exposed by others who oppose their plan. Humiliation and a lack of a witness kept Hamilton from acting before, but with Ash's help and knowing that it would be even worse for him if Thomas's sexuality would be exposed he moved forward with the plan to ruin them.

So you just don't get the plot, it is that simple stop complaining. Your criticism is what is thin. Having his career absolutely ruined, did you miss that part? Being exiled, did you miss that part? Thomas dying is obviously huge, and led to both him and Miranda targeting Hamilton's ship but he was already a pirate at this point. He has a knowledge of piracy, is sympathetic towards pirates, and up until his ruination was actively engaged in a plot to restore the island that he ended up on. What else was he going to do? He was angry, he was a talented sailor and officer who had absolutely zero chance of redemption and a legitimate career. So basically even without Thomas he has the perfect back story to become a pirate.

As I said the audience is creative's worst enemy. I don't know how they could have made any of this more clear to you.

[Akrotatos]

This show keeps getting better! How many episodes left?

[TheDarkKnight]

This show keeps getting better! How many episodes left?

One



At least we know it has already been renewed for a third season, well before the premier of this one.

[Halie Satanus]

Do you watch the show?

I did laugh when you used the word 'publicly' which I didn't, and then proceeded to base your whole asinine rant on a point you made and I didn't.

A. Hamilton used Ashcroft as a witness to Thomas's homosexuality to discredit him with the admiralty.
A. Hamilton used the homosexual affair to discredit Thomas to stop him from putting his plans for Nassau to the admiralty.
A. Hamilton had Thomas moved to an asylum. It was common for problematic members of influential families to be sent to asylums.
A. Hamilton didn't give a crap about his son being gay but he was horrified by his sons plans for Nassau.

Had the affair gone public which, as you'll recall I never said, Lady Hamilton would have become a sympathetic character. In that period a woman accused of infidelity whose husband was then exposed as a homosexual would have been absolved of any wrong doing.

Oh. and I don't think Thomas is actually dead, just throwing that out there.

You're welcome...

[tarvu]

I did laugh when you used the word 'publicly' which I didn't, and then proceeded to base your whole asinine rant on a point you made and I didn't.

A. Hamilton used Ashcroft as a witness to Thomas's homosexuality to discredit him with the admiralty.
A. Hamilton used the homosexual affair to discredit Thomas to stop him from putting his plans for Nassau to the admiralty.
A. Hamilton had Thomas moved to an asylum. It was common for problematic members of influential families to be sent to asylums.
A. Hamilton didn't give a crap about his son being gay but he was horrified by his sons plans for Nassau.

Had the affair gone public which, as you'll recall I never said, Lady Hamilton would have become a sympathetic character. In that period a woman accused of infidelity whose husband was then exposed as a homosexual would have been absolved of any wrong doing.

Oh. and I don't think Thomas is actually dead, just throwing that out there.

You're welcome...

Thank you, but I thought your point was that it was rather thin that Flint coudl become a pirate merely because his lover died. Not how the admiralty knew, which you are right may have been the case though I believe the admiral opened the scene by talking about the affair and then mentioned he knew the truth or something but as long as Flint left London and made no trouble it would be the end of it. But the story in public is still the affair and Thomas was hospitalized because of the grief. Obviously Flint could not have been outed as a homosexual since Ash's whole plan was to do that as a way of convincing people of his contrition and making him less feared as a deadly pirate as much as pitied and likely the subject of a great deal of ridicule.

I don't mind you walking back your comments, but at least be honest about it when you do rather than framing it like you were right all along. Please you didn't mean "public" then what did you mean? Nothing as usual? Because if its still a secret then none of your points make a lick of sense, why would Lady Hamilton be symapthetic to who? Lord Hamilton? Peter Ash? The admirality? Ummmm what?

Lord Hamilton clearly did not lose face in all of this, and why would he. It wasn't public even to his peers/anyone in parliament it was still a secret kept to only a few people who would never expose it, he would only have lost face if it was public. As you just said it was common for influential families to have troublesome family members hospitalized (not just during that time period either).

So yeah sorry but your cries of Strawman are a bit thin here. Care to explain what you meant then? The admiralty was going to redeem Lady Hamilton and make her a sea captain maybe as was their purview what were they or anyone who knew going to do for her, and more importantly why would they be sympathetic to her?

Who was going to humiliate Lord Hamilton? The admiralty who had sent Flint to them and would be equally embarrassed by such a scandal? Maybe Peter Ash was going to humiliate him even though he likely promised him Carolina as part of the deal? Why would we need to see what happened to Thomas after his arrest to understand why Flint had to flee London that was clearly explained in the show I think everyone but you got it. Here's what likely happened:

Thomas "You can't do this"
"Take him away"

What is he going to say that is going to make a difference. Is he going to yell to the streets that his wife was framed (even though she wasn't) and that he was a homosexual. But wouldn't that make it public, short of that what difference does it make. Once hospitalized who cares what he says, and maybe he was killed to keep him silent just in case but again it wouldn't really matter. The public story was the affair and that was sufficient for anyone/everyone who might have cared. It was reason enough publicly to have Flint/Lady Hamilton exiled, and it explained his hospitalization.

You made a weak criticism, yes having his "lover" (which, whatever clearly you have an agenda at play here for why you don't like that) ruined and the plans ruined, not only because he loved Thomas but because he respected him and believed in the plan contributed greatly to his motivation. But beyond that he was kicked out of the navy and was a promising officer on the rise, he had a lot of ambition clearly and talent whatever the reason for his career being destroyed he is absolutely the perfect candidate to become a pirate captain. It is a pretty common origin story for pirates in literature, and happened a few times in actual history (and maybe more than we know about since neither the British nor the pirates themselves would have much reason to disclose such background).

And yeah no she would not. Being a "hag" was not exactly a badge of honor nor did it excuse infideltity. Why don't you source that ing ridiculous claim. She had that reputation long before Flint, and actually did have an affair with Flint. Her husband was the only thing protecting her, and with him gone she had no choice but to flee. Lord Hamilton hated her more than probably any other person and would have made sure that she was destroyed.

She was blamed publicly, she was the one who had the bad reputation (it was mentioned many times by Hamilton and others that she had given the family a bad reputation) throughout the entire episode there is no way she suddenly becomes sympathetic to anyone but those who actually knew her and were already her friends.

[Halie Satanus]

As the catalyst for Flint's motivations it seems pretty flimsy. I'm not even convinced the father 'Alfred Hamilton' would have used his sons proclivities as leverage to scupper his plans.

Since you are having trouble understanding that comment I'll simplify and explain why I felt that was 'flimsy.' The Hamilton's were a prominent family in English society, particularly in the trading world where Lord (Alfred) Hamilton was the former 'Lord Proprietor of the Bahamas.' we can presume Thomas was expected to follow in his fathers footsteps. However his plans for Nassau, specifically the pardon of all pirates horrified Lord Hamilton. While they were at dinner with Thomas/McGraw/Lady Hamilton and Lord Hamilton, Lord Hamilton, on hearing Thomas's plans confronted McGraw as to his thoughts on Thomas's plans. McGraw supported Thomas which angered Lord Hamilton. The Hamilton's and McGraw sought the support of Ashe. However Lord Hamilton went to the ADMIRALTY to discredit Thomas. He then leveraged Ashe as a witness to Thomas and McGraws affair, which he did without the knowledge of the Hamilton's. Thomas was discredited and sent to an asylum where he [allegedly] committed suicide. McGraw was exiled and became James Flint.

So Lord Hamilton had decided to ruin his son and McGraw before the affair between McGraw and Thomas had even started. Because it was after that dinner party, when Lord Hamilton had left that the affair started.

The affair only serves as leverage for Lord Hamilton to take to the ADMIRALTY. He had already decided to destroy Thomas and McGraw because he feared their plans for Nassau.

That's why I said the affair as a catalyst for McGraw to become Flint was flimsy. He already had more than enough reason to seek revenge and to prove Thomas's plans could work.

I can't make that any simpler without crayons.

As for why I didn't mean 'publicly' - because they say it in the ******* show !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the scene where lady Hamilton confronts Ashe she states - Alfred couldn't go to the ADMIRALTY with hear say, he needed a witness.

And why Lady Hamilton would be seen as sympathetic had Thomas and McGraw's affair been made public. I can't, really can't, explain that in simpler terms.

[tarvu]

Since you are having trouble understanding that comment I'll simplify and explain why I felt that was 'flimsy.' The Hamilton's were a prominent family in English society, particularly in the trading world where Lord (Alfred) Hamilton was the former 'Lord Proprietor of the Bahamas.' we can presume Thomas was expected to follow in his fathers footsteps. However his plans for Nassau, specifically the pardon of all pirates horrified Lord Hamilton. While they were at dinner with Thomas/McGraw/Lady Hamilton and Lord Hamilton, Lord Hamilton, on hearing Thomas's plans confronted McGraw as to his thoughts on Thomas's plans. McGraw supported Thomas which angered Lord Hamilton. The Hamilton's and McGraw sought the support of Ashe. However Lord Hamilton went to the ADMIRALTY to discredit Thomas. He then leveraged Ashe as a witness to Thomas and McGraws affair, which he did without the knowledge of the Hamilton's. Thomas was discredited and sent to an asylum where he [allegedly] committed suicide. McGraw was exiled and became James Flint.

So Lord Hamilton had decided to ruin his son and McGraw before the affair between McGraw and Thomas had even started. Because it was after that dinner party, when Lord Hamilton had left that the affair started.

The affair only serves as leverage for Lord Hamilton to take to the ADMIRALTY. He had already decided to destroy Thomas and McGraw because he feared their plans for Nassau.

That's why I said the affair as a catalyst for McGraw to become Flint was flimsy. He already had more than enough reason to seek revenge and to prove Thomas's plans could work.

I can't make that any simpler without crayons.

As for why I didn't mean 'publicly' - because they say it in the ******* show !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the scene where lady Hamilton confronts Ashe she states - Alfred couldn't go to the ADMIRALTY with hear say, he needed a witness.

And why Lady Hamilton would be seen as sympathetic had Thomas and McGraw's affair been made public. I can't, really can't, explain that in simpler terms.

Why is it flimsy?

They didn't make it public so your whole point about it hurting Lord Hamilton more than anyone is moot. How did it hurt Lord Hamilton?

How does this not explain why Flint became a pirate? Do you think they would not have exiled him? What is your point, because you said you were going to explain it and then did not. All you explained were the extraneous points that the Hamiltons are important ("duh"), that they needed Ash to go to the admiralty ("duh" and I just said that), that Thomas was expected to follow in his father's footprints ("duh"), that he supposedly didn't care about his son being gay (pretty debatable he clearly cared about his legacy, and disapproved of his wife so yeah he probably no longer thought him a suitable heir, also Thomas disobeys him so is your argument that he wouldn't turn on his son because of this because clearly he had already lost Thomas as the heir he wanted whether it was because of his sexuality or his plans for Nassau). None of this makes it flimsy in the slightest.

You might need crayons I don't know, because you aren't making much sense.

Also you haven't explained at all why Lady Hamilton would be seen as sympathetic had Thomas and McGraw's affair been made public because at first you used that as an excuse as to why Lord Hamilton would never expose them (meaning publicly) then later backtracked from this to say you never meant publicly so.... w hat is your point. How does she become sympathetic in either case? What would it matter even if she did, and again why don't you offer some evidence of how being exposed as a beard/hag somehow exhonerated women of the time of charges of adultery. There was no "well the husband wasn't a proper man so she could sleep with whoever she wanted" that was pretty far from the prevailing attitude towards women's sexuality of the time.

No one gave a about a woman's sexual needs.

You are the one saying it was a weak plot. How is it weak. Give a reason. Use small simple words because I'm apparently so stupid.

Or how about this, multiple choice.

It is a weak plot because:

A. Hamilton would not give up his son because it would hurt his reputation (what? How?! Since it isn't public it has no effect on his reputation, and in fact safeguards it from humiliation if he let them carry on as they were either with the homosexuality or the affair with Lady Hamilton).
B. Because it would absolve Lady Hamilton (How would it absolve her if it wasn't public, and even if it was, and how would this affect Hamilton's decision in the slightest?)
C. Because the admiralty wouldn't discharge Flint?
D. Because Flint after being discharged would never become a pirate despite being well versed in piracy and piracy being at the center of the entire scandal that brought him and his lovers down.
E. Because the admirality might expose Thomas and therefore Lord Hamilton? Why would they do this? They would be inviting scandal on themselves as McGraw was THEIR officer. Not to mention that why would they even want to possibly hurt a powerful lord's reputation? The whole thing was orchestrated to sweep the three of them (Lady Hamilton, Thomas/McGraw under the rug)

What is your point? How is it thin, because it seems to me it is anything but thin as it makes sense on multiple levels.

Motivation from losing a friend to the very establishment he is fighting against
Motivation from losing a lover and then following in that lover's footsteps and attempting to carry out his plan
Betrayal from the Navy/Hamilton
Motivation from hurt pride/ego
Motivation from a career thrown away and all the hard work and skills as a Navy officer being of little use for anything except becoming a Pirate Captain
Without the scandal being constructed EXACTLY how it was, McGraw/Thomas might have been brought to trial and then Flint would never have become a pirate, Hamilton's reputation would be ruined, and he would have nothing nor any reason to offer Ash anything. Not to mention the admiralty might actually go along with the plan as they hoped. But as it occurred none of these are issues AT ALL because all of these concerns are covered.

So please do tell what is SO THIN about any of this. It is the opposite of that, the pieces fall together perfectly and the events could not have unfolded any other way under the situation and with the actors involved. It is the difference between an excellently written plot by talented writers, and someone who just doesn't get it and made a baseless criticism.

[Halie Satanus]

Use small simple words because I'm apparently so stupid.

I won't argue with you.

[Aikanár]

It's hot in here, don't you feel it too? I think we need a tea break here to cool it a little. I mean, it's the Arts, not the Mudpit.

Tea for everybody, no sugar for one.

[TheDarkKnight]

We are finally getting Blackbeard, who has been noticeably absent in this series. Ray Stevenson (Rome, Thor) will be playing him beginning Season 3

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Freaking finally. I have been hoping to see Blackbeard in this show. Wonder what he has been up to with everything going on.

[Halie Satanus]

If any can, Ray Stevenson can...

[Knight of Heaven]

If any can, Ray Stevenson can...

Awesome news, cant wait for blackbeard to go Titos Pulo on the British naivy this time arround with loads of guns.

[Halie Satanus]

Definitely be interesting to see how they portray Blackbeard.

[TheDarkKnight]

That finale was insanely awesome. This show improved leaps and bounds over the first season, and I honestly wish that season three could premier next week.

It will be a long wait.

[Knight of Heaven]

That finale was insanely awesome. This show improved leaps and bounds over the first season, and I honestly wish that season three could premier next week.

It will be a long wait.

Indeed. Awesome season finale. It makes you mouth watery in wait for the next season no doubt.

[HannibalExMachina]

We are finally getting Blackbeard, who has been noticeably absent in this series. Ray Stevenson (Rome, Thor) will be playing him beginning Season 3

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Freaking finally. I have been hoping to see Blackbeard in this show. Wonder what he has been up to with everything going on.

not enough dakka

as for the finale, meh, it wouldve been more awesome if the escape wasnt so lazily written.