Hic Sunt Dracones Enhancement Mod

[Censor]

WTF, why are hoplites supposed to be superior?

[The Walrus]

WTF, why are hoplites supposed to be superior?

They have better armor. They were meant/built to be the "sword" of the army while phalangites were meant/built to be the "shield" of an army. Not positive how historical this is but...

[Pre]

If hoplites have better armor, how come I've had large masses of them routed by pelasts right in front of them just missles?

Edit: Does this mod work without BI installed? I find the current animations choppy.

[Oddball_E8]

i dont know if this has been mentioned, but the mounted archer anim looks unnatural... noone rides around with their arm outstreched like that... i was thinking of reverting to the old anim, but i noticed that its not included... so please do something about this...

[JoeyJubb]

@Censor: Yeah dude they were - it's in a quote, something about Philip not conquering greece with his sword, but with his money.

@Pre: I've made no changes to the attack/defence of any units, you might be playing on "Hard" or "Very Hard" where the AI recieves attack bonuses (+4 and +7 respectively I think)
Also, to use without BI, you must open "data/export_models_unit.txt" and remove any instance of ",shield_wall"

Oddball_E8 I know what you mean, that was the flashy new animation but to be honest I think it sucks as well. The next release of my mod will return the horse-archer animation to normal.

[Artathaxas]

Common sense dictates that to hold a long shafted spear over your head, while holding a shield, in a large group of men, and fighting people for extended perriods of time would be pretty idiotic. Holding a spear over your head is only useful for throwing.

[Oddball_E8]

Common sense dictates that to hold a long shafted spear over your head, while holding a shield, in a large group of men, and fighting people for extended perriods of time would be pretty idiotic. Holding a spear over your head is only useful for throwing.

im sure thats why the greeks fought with it that way... cos they were idiots... suuure...

you can actually reach further with the spear and hit more vital parts whilst still being able to cover your body with the shield... you try stabbing with a spear from a "normal" hold whilst not exposing yourself...

[JoeyJubb]

@Artathaxas: I'm not quite sure who that was aimed at, but I have seen many sources that lead me to believe that the greeks did use shorter spears and that they used them overhead -- Also, I did state in the first post that I don't make any claims to historical accuracy.

[whatusername]

What's up with the new name change?

[JoeyJubb]

To be honest I needed an excuse to bump the thread, so I changed the name. It means "Here Be Dragons" in latin.

[Censor]

Well now that I think about it hoplites do seem superior in a sense, holding off a massed wall of spears as a phalangite with such a long spear doesn't seem very practical as you have so little leverage. Ah well, hoplites still make excellent projectile fodder.

[Pre]

Common sense dictates that to hold a long shafted spear over your head, while holding a shield, in a large group of men, and fighting people for extended perriods of time would be pretty idiotic. Holding a spear over your head is only useful for throwing.

Actually I've read that using spears overhand gives better leverage and aim.

[mcantu]

im sure thats why the greeks fought with it that way... cos they were idiots... suuure...

you can actually reach further with the spear and hit more vital parts whilst still being able to cover your body with the shield... you try stabbing with a spear from a "normal" hold whilst not exposing yourself...

It also exposes your unshielded side and leaves it vulnerable

[mmmrrrr]

If you're in a hoplite, you don't have an unshielded side. It's not a duel. But the back ranks sure didn't hold their spears like that straight upwards (phalangite style), since that's sort of an impossible way to bend your arm. Look at (from Expanded Greed Mod, XGM). That looks a lot more realistic, right?

Also I remember reading that the battles as the Greeks fought with overhand hoplites basically was two units pushing against each other until one broke formation. There'd be so much weight on your back to get your unit to push the enemy unit to break formation that you wouldn't be able to stab, no matter if you wield the spears overhanded or not. The thing is the overhanded spears were a lot more efficient once the enemy did break formation and you could begin stabbing. Don't take me as the primary source on this though, ask someone who actually knows about hoplite warfare, not someone who's just read what someone else has written about it

[Aedelric]

Candelarius updated the extended mod to fix a Marian Reform bug just brings up a bug about the roman general again. What should I do?

[Oddball_E8]

how about asking in the correct thread? like the candelarius' extended realism thread?
here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...&page=36&pp=20

[Aedelric]

No, because this is the correct thread, this is a mod that modifys his modification, not the other way around.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Looks like a great mod, but I'll wait for the next version with the bugs corrected.

[The Walrus]

If you're in a hoplite, you don't have an unshielded side. It's not a duel. But the back ranks sure didn't hold their spears like that straight upwards (phalangite style), since that's sort of an

Wrong. In any phalanx/mass group of men the right side is unshielded. The shield was held on the left side leaving the right side to swords. So in a phalanx where each guy's shield shielded the other the right dude was screwed. One of the main tactics in ancient warfare was to attack the left flank since they would be fighting with shield while your right flank would be fighting
them with their swords. Confusing without pics + plus my bad explaining I know

[mmmrrrr]

Well, it's just the guy on the right side who is unshielded, the majority of the soldiers don't have an unshielded side, right?