Features that can be added from Rome I to Rome II

[CanOmer]

A quick comparison with RTW and the cut content with Carthage on campaign map:


Part II:

[stackero]

A quick comparison with RTW and the cut content with Carthage on campaign map:


Part II:

Bravo, Outstanding. Pictures are worth a thousand words. The difference in the content of a 10 year old Rome 1 with mods vs a new Rome 2 is astounding.

Happy you made this a thread. you'll get detractors but the cats out of the bag ,so to speak, at least on one level of the short comings of Rome 2. If you have any pictures of what generals look like and their possible traits that would be telling too..

But way to go CanOmer. Got to rep ya when my reps replenish.



Links to other examples of Rome 1 and its mods. If you watch enough of them you'll see and or feel one thing for certain that Rome 1 mods, like say Roma Surretum2 has over Rome 2, Epic-ness. Not to mention a better Battle AI.

Here's a short review of a Rome 1 mod; Roma Surrectum 2. About a year old but gives a great feel for the game. Second good review using the Selecids. Added a few more.Included a siege like Vespasian's Siege of Jotapata 67 AD. Some of these vids of RS2 are 3 years old and still they improve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4LY7y_6kMio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcq1D...yer_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwLtq...yer_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTKMs...yer_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XmFTag95nsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfMo...yer_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-5yi...yer_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Te1loaGcZ58




Having fought many wars over several centuries with Sparta, an Argonian soldier once bragged and smirked to a Spartan soldier, 'there are many graves of Spartans in the land of Argos. The Spartan replied, 'yes, and there are no Argonian graves in the land of Sparta. -


"If all the world were just, there would be no need of valor.~~Plutarch

"Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"-Flavius Vegetius Renatus

You should reach the limits of virtue, before you cross the border of death. 'Tyrtaeus Spartan poet.


The Spartans do not enquire how many the enemy are but where they are. Agis, II 42;7 BC

[Dago Red]

Just a shameful display.



ps.
They can't make all the coasts beaches, the cliffs are there as a limiting factor to the idiotic idea of letting armies be sci-fi transformers that can become navies in a split second!!!! That has to (and should) go first before you could even consider level coastal areas.

[stackero]

Just a shameful display.



ps.
They can't make all the coasts beaches, the cliffs are there as a limiting factor to the idiotic idea of letting armies be sci-fi transformers that can become navies in a split second!!!! That has to (and should) go first before you could even consider level coastal areas.

Please, don't get me started on the 'shameful' R2 naval defects. R1 naval part nothing to cheer about, but Rome 2, magically made troop transports suddenly appear to move troops across the ocean, these same magic ships destroy my fleet of formidable warships, and oh didn't I say don't get me started.

Yes, some of the fleet concepts in R2 would be preferable to R1 but it needs a lot of work just like all the rest of Rome 2. We can pray to the gods CA patches and 'fixes' enough of the game so that when the tools are released our modders can work their magic. When that will be is any bodies guess.

Good Gaming



"To sin by silence, when they should protest, makes cowards of men"- Attributed to Abraham Lincoln

If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.- David Hackworth


"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."- Attributed to Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

[BroskiDerpman]

By golly the Rome 1 ui looks much more immersive yet functional. That's vanilla too...

[krisslanza]

You know those "magical fleets" don't just appear out of thing air. Given a turn is one year, it's just assumed when they show up, your army spent a few months buying/building them, and then sailed off in them.

Population growth is still a thing, but it's no longer represented in the same way. Also you can't construct every city to be exactly the same in Rome 2, forcing you to actually make a decision on what you want a city to do. Also, realistically, not every city is a metropolis either.

Actually, I'm probably just arguing to a wall.

[stackero]

You know those "magical fleets" don't just appear out of thing air. Given a turn is one year, it's just assumed when they show up, your army spent a few months buying/building them, and then sailed off in them.

Population growth is still a thing, but it's no longer represented in the same way. Also you can't construct every city to be exactly the same in Rome 2, forcing you to actually make a decision on what you want a city to do. Also, realistically, not every city is a metropolis either.

Actually, I'm probably just arguing to a wall.

Well, now that you mention those 1 year turns maybe I was bit cynical to say magically appearing troops ships. Instead we must imagine that because of the one year turn, troops ships were built to be prepared for troops, and no worry about buying or building warships to escort them because those mighty troopships will be equal to any warship they encounter and if the do, we'll just auto resolve because few people want to fight with ships that don't seem to want to obey commands making the sea battles frustrating.

And yes, I'm sure some find it more exciting to play and manage mostly 3-5 box cities, Rome a few more.But we could go on an on about all the fun we could have if Rome 2 worked and didn't need an army of patches plus more features to ever be called a real game.

Is it playable? You can move things build things, but is it fun and you noticed I didn't bring up the tactical side of the game, where to begin.And the AI or lack of. So lets not. Will CA ever take the game as far as it needs to go, only time will tell.

Good Gaming from your friend Mr. Wall.



Vanilla Rome intro factions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JkAt...yer_detailpage




'Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining'



"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."- Prime Minister Winston Churchill


The best luck of all is the luck you make for yourself.- General Douglas MacArthur

[craziii]

settlement details do exists. #2 key when you have a settlement selected in rome 2. rome 2 have 2 panels and forces u to mouse over for info, which I find super annoying. the settlement details screen in the older titles were perfect.

the cliffs along the coastlines in rome 2 are there to limit sea invasion landing zones. it works just like how the impassable forests and other terrain in rome 2, to help the AI.

the resources on the map was taken out because of warscape engine map? I am not sure, just speculating here. shogun 2 got resources but they were also buildings for the settlement they were in. can anyone confirm map resources in etw n ntw? I don't remember.

I hate the new, super annoying, minimalistic UI too.

[High Fist]

'Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining'

Is that a Biffy Clyro quote?

I would argue that soldiers wouldn't be that good at building ships as they wouldn't have the skills to. So you would have to hire boats and that costs dosh. Unless they commandeer enough boats to transport an army. I think it's a bit op atm.

[stackero]

By golly the Rome 1 ui looks much more immersive yet functional. That's vanilla too...

Yes, and there are many more immersive and epic functions in many of Rome !'s mods


Rome 1 Rise of Persia mod Spartans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDAbN...yer_detailpage
Vanilla Rome intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IKlV...yer_detailpage

The Spartans do not enquire how many the enemy are but where they are. Agis, II 42;7 BC


We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.- George Orwell M

[Mixxer5]

settlement details do exists. #2 key when you have a settlement selected in rome 2. rome 2 have 2 panels and forces u to mouse over for info, which I find super annoying. the settlement details screen in the older titles were perfect.

Not perfect (I'd like to see some tooltips explaining how I get/get rid of corruption), but much more complex and interesting.

OP- Great job!

[cevap]

Jesus how much the UI was better in every single way in Rome1, it was easier to micromanage 30 settlements than it is 3 provinces in Rome 2, not to mention the aesthetics.

[super_newbie_pro]

+1 with you for Rome 1... +1 for watchtower +1 for fort !! Rome 2 should be Rome 1 with better graphics !!! Not a Rome 2 who cut/delete all features of Rome 1 !

EDIT : want more buildings !! Want have all members on the map ! Want have the possibility to move 10 members in the same city !!

[Sar1n]

You know those "magical fleets" don't just appear out of thing air. Given a turn is one year, it's just assumed when they show up, your army spent a few months buying/building them, and then sailed off in them.

Problem is in three things. First, the army isn't spending any time (represented in move allowance) building and boarding, while it would take at least weeks of fulltime work to build some simple barges to cross a wide river or narrow strait. Second, it takes more than just some wood that could be found on many places (but not everywhere). You need cloth for sails, something to seal the seams (tar or pitch were commonly used in ancient times), ropes, metal parts...even if you have wood readily available, there is a significant cost in other materials. Again, not reflected in game. Third, if you want to build something really seaworthy, you need someone with decent knowledge about shipbuilding, and more time to treat the wood for longterm use. Most ancient armies weren't equipped to handle it.

[Dago Red]

Problem is in three things. First, the army isn't spending any time (represented in move allowance) building and boarding, while it would take at least weeks of fulltime work to build some simple barges to cross a wide river or narrow strait. Second, it takes more than just some wood that could be found on many places (but not everywhere). You need cloth for sails, something to seal the seams (tar or pitch were commonly used in ancient times), ropes, metal parts...even if you have wood readily available, there is a significant cost in other materials. Again, not reflected in game. Third, if you want to build something really seaworthy, you need someone with decent knowledge about shipbuilding, and more time to treat the wood for longterm use. Most ancient armies weren't equipped to handle it.

AKA. It's a farce.

it makes the whole game into a joke.

[Durnaug]

@CanOmer Good thread. This is why I always bore people with the "task-artefact theory". CA should've evolved the existing game. Sometimes I think they started from scratch and then submitted the almost completed game to a bizarre evaluation method based on metacritic scores. What the heck does that latter procedure have to do with informing design? It is like basing game design on the hunches of a hollywood executive.

It is rumoured that CA misplaced the sourcecode to the original RTW (hard to believe - surely not true?). But that doesn't matter, they should at least have a design rationale document for the original game? If not then you do what CanOmer is doing - go back to the game and use something like the "task artefact cycle" to document why this or that feature was included, listing its pros and cons. Using existing technology not only suggests ways of improving it but also new possibilities, same with games.

[CanOmer]

Problem is in three things. First, the army isn't spending any time (represented in move allowance) building and boarding, while it would take at least weeks of fulltime work to build some simple barges to cross a wide river or narrow strait. Second, it takes more than just some wood that could be found on many places (but not everywhere). You need cloth for sails, something to seal the seams (tar or pitch were commonly used in ancient times), ropes, metal parts...even if you have wood readily available, there is a significant cost in other materials. Again, not reflected in game. Third, if you want to build something really seaworthy, you need someone with decent knowledge about shipbuilding, and more time to treat the wood for longterm use. Most ancient armies weren't equipped to handle it.

I think armies would need to go port cities to build transports. The building should take quarter of the movement points of the army and costs money.

[Ataegina]

sometimes features are consequence of the hardware/software existing at that time. rome 1 had a different engine, rome 1 was way way more smaller, even if the output (ingame) creates the illusion of being bigger. rome 1 was probably started being made in? 2002 or such and released in 2004. so why are we comparing two different worlds? really you think that rome 1 was better? you can find twice or the triple of negative aspects of that game, game had good things but had a ton of awful things in vanilla, and thats why people modded, because the vanilla game was terrible!!! rome 1 has better things, rome 1 has negative things, rome 2 does better things, rome 2 does worst things.

in all honesty i only liked rome 1 because you could mod EVERYTHING, so i was able to turn the turd that was rome 1 vanilla into something actually very cool, to explain how not so good the vanilla version was, take a look at RS or EB and than look at vanilla version. so many people have this glorified vision of rome 1 because of years of modding and improvements made by us, so its wrong to compare both games. some mods already created for rome 2 already made this game kickass!!! the only feature i really don't get why was removed and we know its possible and its allowed by engine is SEASONS <----------- warscape can do it perfectly!!!

[Durnaug]

The mods are a great example of how an existing game suggests new possibilities, for example even down to the level of how one feature might be tweaked to serve an entirely new concept. So you are right - the mods would have been a great starting point for further evolution of the game. But I think CanOmer is also highlighting useful design concepts that are core to the mods and vanilla RTW 1. I like his approach, a kind of visual design rationale. The idea is to evolve the concepts that worked aswell as embracing new ideas.

Certainly no-one is consciously adovcating a simple conversion of all the crap aspects of vanilla into a new engine That's why I refer to a "design rationale" or a record of all the successful design decisions and features of the original game. Such a "document" is independent of any particular engine and can actually be iterated itself as part of the development process. Off course, there are limitations. You're right to highlight that hardware and software impose constraints aswell as enhancements on design possibilities. Anyway, it is all moot now.

[super_newbie_pro]

I'd pay double the price of a normal game for Rome one EXACTLY the same but with the graphics of Rome 2 !