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Thread: Alii Colores Romae: Totus - pack of different uniform colours now covering the Rise of the Republic scenario!!

  1. #41
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Demokritos, this is great ! I agree you tuned the Epirot's green and orange right ! And those pics above really makes me want to play Athens as soon as your mod is available ! Fortunately, I haven't played them until now:-)
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  2. #42
    Kymmuriel's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Ah! you know that Demekritos gives you the good waves to make you play faction you wouldnt have normaly, cant wait when his "bomb" is gonna be out to drop it on all the R2TW com

  3. #43
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by caprera View Post
    Oh this is so going to be a "must-have" for Rome II...
    Always inspirational to hear things like that. Thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ftmch View Post
    It's nice to see you doing this so I don't have to do it mysel! haha I'm too busy for modding these days. I'll keep a look out for any minor factions with horrible colours and let you know if I see any!
    Yes, thought you might be busy. Thanks for keeping an eye out for the worst offenders.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yerevan View Post
    Demokritos, this is great ! I agree you tuned the Epirot's green and orange right ! And those pics above really makes me want to play Athens as soon as your mod is available ! Fortunately, I haven't played them until now:-)
    Glad to hear you've turned around on that orange and green issue (but note my comment about Epirus below). And that Athens have finally caught your attention. I think I nailed their colours pretty good.

    Athens might actually end up being the faction with most variety in colours. As another example, their thureos spears show up like this..

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    All in line with Athens being the inventor of democracy, a state ruled by free men. Also in line with their civic achievements, however, their primary colour is white, as this colour best symbolizes the profession of scholars, philosophers, engineers etc. One way you might see this reflected in the Athenian roster is the bigger and more complex the siege equipment in their army, the more men dressed in white tunics handling it. For some missile units, however, more men from the countryside can be seen being brought in.

    At least, I try to find solutions based on these ideas. Not fully satisfied with what I got in all parts of the roster yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kymmuriel View Post
    Ah! you know that Demekritos gives you the good waves to make you play faction you wouldnt have normaly, cant wait when his "bomb" is gonna be out to drop it on all the R2TW com
    Thanks for the vote of confidence in this project, Kymmuriel. It's difficult and hard work, but I won't release anything before all solutions are pretty satisfactory to me.

    Speaking of the challenge, a word of caution or warning here. It's one thing to find colours that appear "restful" and "beautiful" at colour combination testing sites or in image manipulation programs. It's another to find colours that stay so in all environmental settings for this game. The shades for orange and green I found for the Epirote Citizen Cavalry shown above, for example, look really good in environments that appear natural in game. The problem is that not all settings in game have a natural light, IMO. Some appear to bathe everything in some sort of orangy or greenish light, for instance. The latter can turn the yellow for my Parthians rather ugly, and the former the orange for those Epirotes way too orange. Some units are more affected by the lighting conditions than others. Armored units usually fare better than others, as their armor cover more of their clothing. Units with big patches of changeable colours, like Mercenary African Elephants with the blankets on their backs in primary factional colour, appear worst off. I found that Epirote orange on a battle day of orangy light on those elephants simply too much, despite the shade looking so good in other conditions. Enough for me to consider making some other solution the factional theme for Epirus and then use that orange and green idea for some of their "special units" only.

    Check the following sources showing elephants in use by Epirote troops...



    Note all blankets on elephants in pinkish red. Compare with one interpretation of that...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I don't know about you guys, but in the screenshot above, the elephants look "Epirote" to me somehow, regardless of sources, thanks to that pinkish red tone (don't mind the clothing of the elephant handlers here; still working on a universal solution for those). Since elephants were a rather important part of Pyrrhus's army, I think it's a good idea to try making those elehants appear "Epirote" in this game as well. Especially since it could solve that orangy problem.

    Now only a colour looking good in combination with pinkish red needs to be found for Epirus. In orangy environments as well. Ahum, let's see...

    That's the dev situation. As you can understand, not an easy thing. This project will take time to finish. And my main point with this elaboration is that the result, although promising, may still look odd in certain situations, thanks to those strange shading and lighting conditions of the game. Just keep that in mind whenever ACR2 is ready.


    BTW, along with a little change in the text above, I can add another peek preview...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Who they are? You might meet them if you face Epirus in battle...
    Last edited by Demokritos; October 16, 2013 at 04:02 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  4. #44
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    That's a beautiful and unique color like it a lot more than the orange for Epirus.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  5. #45

    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    here is a Spartan fighting the Athenian warrior and a army epirus behind them ( risky battle indeed but won it )
    (ps it was two armies against one
    me Spartans - 3233 troops
    vs
    Athens 3132 troops and epirus -1741)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013-10-17_00001.jpg  

  6. #46
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by McCarronXLD View Post
    That's a beautiful and unique color like it a lot more than the orange for Epirus.
    Yes, it turned out quite well. I've updated OP accordingly.

    Here's one last preview of this side. The Royal Guard...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeyshot View Post
    here is a Spartan fighting the Athenian warrior and a army epirus behind them ( risky battle indeed but won it )
    (ps it was two armies against one
    me Spartans - 3233 troops
    vs
    Athens 3132 troops and epirus -1741)
    Sounds like a fun battle - and you found another great shot in the fray! You never disappoint.

    Listen, Hazey, you should compete with your screenies in that Unedited Picture of the Week Competition which they hold regularly here. I'm pretty sure you're bound to win a few of those and eventually earn the badge for it. I just posted my first over there myself the other day.


    I've updated the preview of Sparta in OP.

    Following my reasoning there for how the Spartan roster should appear, here's a couple of examples of what I mean.

    Skirmisher Cavalry for Sparta...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I've pretended this unit to be manned by Helots. The other two types of cavalry units which Sparta have available in vanilla will appear manned by Perioikoi troops in ACR2.

    Perioikoi Hoplites for Sparta...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    No Perioikoi will show up in crimson tunic. This will be reserved for proper Spartiates. Spartan Youths, however, will be considered individuals who have not attained full status as warriors yet and therefore walk around in a variety of coloured clothing.


    I've begun to cover the mercenaries, too. One type of unit is displayed in post #3 already. Here's another example...

    Mercenary Veteran Hoplites...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    These happen to be in Athenian sold (as revealed by the officer leading them).


    That's it for now.

    Take care out here.

    Time for a run in the illuminated track...
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  7. #47

    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Very eager for this mod to come out, and quite interested to see what you do with the legendary Parthian Cataphract. I'm curious to know if you intend to make use of the colour purple for elite unit's such as the actual individual generals, (I noticed the artwork of Phyrrus wearing a long royal purple cape).

    I do hope this mod will not take too much longer. There are no other recolour mods worth mentioning at the moment since the Natural Dyes mod stopped working. I am having an awful time trying to continue my Parthian campain now that they're back to their awful original colour scheme.

  8. #48
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianRomantic View Post
    Very eager for this mod to come out, and quite interested to see what you do with the legendary Parthian Cataphract. I'm curious to know if you intend to make use of the colour purple for elite unit's such as the actual individual generals, (I noticed the artwork of Phyrrus wearing a long royal purple cape).

    I do hope this mod will not take too much longer. There are no other recolour mods worth mentioning at the moment since the Natural Dyes mod stopped working. I am having an awful time trying to continue my Parthian campain now that they're back to their awful original colour scheme.
    The Natural Dyes mod has stopped working? That's a shame. I'd regard that mod a good alternative even when my Alternative is out. You sure the problem with that mod is not just an issue with CA's own Mod Manager? I used Mitch's mod manager before, but when CA released their own MM, my mod stopped working, too. But I uninstalled Mitch's variant, reinstalled Rome 2, put ACR2 back in the data folder, started the game and then clicked CA's "Mod Manager" button on their splash screen for launching the game properly. Then CA's MM went looking for mods installed, found ACR2, whereupon I enabled it again by ticking the box for it before launching the game. You should try something similar for the Natural Dyes Mod, if you haven't already.

    My mod is still a long way off (edit: see last note in this post below). In large part because I'm not just recolouring one theme for each faction, but, in order to provide added variety and interest, a whole bunch (as you can gather from the list in post #3). Only Athens, Epirus, and Sparta are completely done in this way so far. Means I still have thirteen playable factions more to go...

    But I may not do the whole roster for all playable factions in my first release. At least not for the Nomadic Tribes. We'll see how I go about those and the others not covered at all yet.

    As for the Parthians, I do intend to provide a varied and colourful roster. Also got some sources for their cataphracts. Would have been nice to make the units in game appear in similar colours. The problem here seems to be that some type of units are not moddable the way I'm doing it, and this includes at least some of the Parthian heavy cavalry (haven't checked all such types of units yet). Unlike Shogun 2, very little of any type of armor is recolourable in Rome 2, I'm afraid (and the Parthian cataphracts are fully clad ín armor, I think). Unless you go real retexturing, and that's a whole different ball game (requiring Photoshop/GIMP etc). My method of recolouring has a good chance of remaining effective regardless of future patches. The retexture method, which require a lot more work, may not function equally well after patches. So I'm not keen on doing retexture work while the game keeps being updated. I'm reluctant to go into that business at all as my current modding scope is sizeable enough (if I am to have a life besides modding).

    Another problem with Rome 2 is that its uniform colours are distributed all over the place where colours can be changed. Unlike Shogun 2, where the third colour always affected the cloak of the generals (never the armor or other clothing), for example, any colour given to the unit in Rome 2 will appear everywhere, but at a different place on different occasions, or as one colour in two different places (shutting out a third colour), according to some randomizing script. Third colour here only seems to mean it will be less frequent at whatever place. So a colour known to have been worn by a certain unit in history in their cloaks alone, for example, cannot be fixed to cloaks in this game, but will sometimes also (instead) appear on clothing, patterns on armor, hats, shield etc. And some colours which may fit on cloaks may not fit equally well on other clothing...

    So the colour purple for certain units have to be chosen with these circumstances in mind, and that's not always a straightforward matter. Which adds to the time required to finish this type of mod.

    Anyway, like I said in an other post before, until Rome 2 is patched up properly to function as good as older TW games in battle mode etc, there's no rush for mods like ACR2. It won't do much for game experience to have good-looking units if the battle AI still sucks, IMO. That's what I fear the most: that after all my time improving the visuals of the game, CA will still fail to make the game enjoyable to play. And if other mods can do a better job for that, then the question of compatibility with ACR2 arises...

    Anyhow, I'm still having a good time modding this game. Here's a couple of shots from the dev process showing why...

    The leap...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Looks like a Perioikoi pikeman got inspired by real Spartiates nearby in the fight against Epirote pikemen...

    Those Perioikoi ended up looking different in the version prepped for release, however.

    With one of the kings leading the charge...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    With the support of the Perioikoi, Royal Spartans threw back a coalition of Athenian and Epirote troops, and chased them down for good, the Spartan king at the very forefront of it all...

    I must say that it didn't fancy those red shields for Royal Spartans before (they should be bronze with the Greek letter for "L" in red), but after this battle with my new uniform colours, I can see those shields making these guys appear pretty cool in action.


    Edit: I think I've changed my mind about the contents of the first release. There's SO much to do with the original plan for this mod, and I'm running out of time to concentrate on it, and want some of it off my back before other things need my attention. So maybe I should make the first version a "ACR2 16a Light Edition"? Only Athens, Epirus, and Sparta would recieve full treatment in that LE, all "barbaric" (Arverni, Iceni, and Suebi) and Nomadic factions (Massagetae, Roxolani, and Scythia) the minimum deal of the factional theme alone re-coloured, and all other factions maybe a couple of special units only extra. How's that sound? It would speed things up considerably for a first release, and then you guys can start playing with as you see fit.
    Last edited by Demokritos; October 23, 2013 at 09:44 AM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  9. #49

    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Athulwulf seems to have stopped updating the natural dyes mod; it hasn't been made compatible with patch five.

    How is it that certain units such as the preatorian guard have only purple cloaks? Is there any way to apply that effect to other units, perhaps?

    I'd be 100% behind a light edition release.

    By the way, a couple of pages back you were if anyone knew of any non-playable factions that look particularly awful. Have a look at Media Atropatente (I think it is spelt). Neon orange and yellow.

  10. #50
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianRomantic View Post
    Athulwulf seems to have stopped updating the natural dyes mod; it hasn't been made compatible with patch five.

    How is it that certain units such as the preatorian guard have only purple cloaks? Is there any way to apply that effect to other units, perhaps?

    I'd be 100% behind a light edition release.

    By the way, a couple of pages back you were if anyone knew of any non-playable factions that look particularly awful. Have a look at Media Atropatente (I think it is spelt). Neon orange and yellow.
    Haven't checked the Praetorian Guard in game, but according to the game files, only their secondary colour is "purple" or, rather, "purple-ish red". Their primary colour is red, and their tertiary dark red. However, there's also a unit listed called "Praetorians" which share the colours with the Guard on primary and tertiary, but have a more proper purple for secondary. I don't know if the colour shifting script differs depending on what unit the uniform in question belongs to, but so far I have not seen a primary, secondary, or tertiary sticking to only one colour-editable part of the unit's uniform. They all get shifted around in the parts that can change, only the frequency by which they appear at a certain part differs, "primary colour" most often used on the dominant part, "tertiary colour" least often used on that part. The only way I know of to ensure a certain part of the uniform remains a certain colour is to make all three colours different hues of that colour. That's the way I have ensured the Spartan hoplites are always dressed in red tunics, for example, and this required them to be a "special unit" departing from the main factional colour theme, as I didn't want all units for Sparta to appear in red tunics alone.

    I'll look into those Media Atropatene. Thanks for the tip.


    BTW, there's seems to be a new colour mod out, "New Faction Colours", or something. Might be worth checking out for you while waiting for ACR2 or the Natural Dyes Mod getting updated.


    Edit: Found a unit which seems to have a fixed place assigned for secondary colour - the Carthaginian Sacred Band in regard to their shields. So that's "the exception that makes the rule".
    Last edited by Demokritos; October 24, 2013 at 05:06 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  11. #51
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    I agree that a light edition would be well received. Just a version that redid all of the general playable faction colors would be nice. Then you could go in and work on specific units.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  12. #52
    Dude with the Food's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Demokritos View Post
    BTW, there's seems to be a new colour mod out, "New Faction Colours", or something. Might be worth checking out for you while waiting for ACR2 or the Natural Dyes Mod getting updated.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post13340349
    Thanks for the promotion.

    Edit: Found a unit which seems to have a fixed place assigned for secondary colour - the Carthaginian Sacred Band in regard to their shields. So that's "the exception that makes the rule".
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ect&highlight=
    Praetorian cloaks act in the same way while post-marian Roman units never seem to use the yellow in vanilla or whatever colour replaces it. It is the secondary colour that is omitted by most Roman units and is used for Sacred Band shields and Praetorian cloaks. That is also never used for any other part of those units (other than the general faction secondary colour for officers).

    I haven't tested it but I think if you gave Athens a bright pink secondary colour and Sacred Band shields to regular hoplites, they would all have bright pink shields. If gave them Sacred Band armour too then they wouldn't have any pink tunics either AFAIK.

    I'm not sure how to make this exclusiveness/omission apply to other models for units but I think it must be hidden somewhere.
    Last edited by Dude with the Food; October 26, 2013 at 04:12 PM.
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    I am me. You are not me. You are you. If I was you, I wouldn't be me.
    If you were me, I'd be sad.But I wouldn't then be me because you'd be me so you wouldn't be me because I wasn't me because you were me but you couldn't be because I'd be a different me. I'd rather be any kind of bird (apart from a goose) than be you because to be you I'd have to not be me which I couldn't do unless someone else was me but then they would be you aswell so there would still be no me. They would be you because I was you so to restore balance you would have to be me and them meaning all three of us would become one continously the same. That would be very bad.


  13. #53
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by McCarronXLD View Post
    I agree that a light edition would be well received. Just a version that redid all of the general playable faction colors would be nice. Then you could go in and work on specific units.
    The Light Edition is in the pipes, McCarron. Want to get some of this stuff off my back. Might give the Seleucids a quick (one theme only) treatment as well. But the Romans probably require some more work, because there's a shading applied to them that affects their units differently (which means one set of colour theme will have little chance of looking acceptable on all units). Also difficult not to provide some variety through the mercenaries, at least...


    Quote Originally Posted by Dude with the Food View Post
    You're welcome. I hold my colour-modding colleagues in special regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude with the Food View Post
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ect&highlight=
    Praetorian cloaks act in the same way while post-marian Roman units never seem to use the yellow in vanilla or whatever colour replaces it. It is the secondary colour that is omitted by most Roman units and is used for Sacred Band shields and Praetorian cloaks. That is also never used for any other part of those units (other than the general faction secondary colour for officers).

    I haven't tested it but I think if you gave Athens a bright pink secondary colour and Sacred Band shields to regular hoplites, they would all have bright pink shields. If gave them Sacred Band armour too then they wouldn't have any pink tunics either AFAIK.

    I'm not sure how to make this exclusiveness/omission apply to other models for units but I think it must be hidden somewhere.
    The secondary colour for the Romans gets applied on the clothing for their Socii units, at least, and the shields of regular Roman units. But otherwise strangely omitted, as you say, unlike all other factions I know of. That Sacred Band is the first unit I've seen which also gets a special treatment with that secondary colour. Will check for the Praetorians later.

    Athens have no special ruling for secondary colour or any other colour. I've modded their whole roster without discovering anything in particular for them. I'm trying to utilize that special rule for the Sacred Band, however, in making their shields only red, as I think I've read somewhere that this was their mark. The trouble is that this colour will drown some of the designs on that shield, particularly those in red. Strange that CA did not give this unit more attention than clothing. Special shields would have been real nice for the Sacred Band, for the current shields are kind of bland, and their long-sleeved shirts are difficult to make look good in any colour.

    Very little of the armour in game is affected by editing the colours the DB way.

    This differing colour order application system must be set by a script somewhere. If you discover it, let me know, will you? It would facilitate my work a great deal.

    BTW, Dude, you don't happen to know why there are some units which are not affected by DB editing their colours at all? So far, the Greek Scorpions show no sign of being editable the way all other types of units are. This poses a problem for my Spartan idea in particular, as I would have liked the crew for the Spartan Scorpion to look like Helots, not Spartiates engaged in labour "beneath their status" without any armour etc in sight.


    Anyhow, guys, here's preview of the Galatian Royal Guard for the Ptolemaics. I have no source for them whatsoever, but I have a faint memory of reading somewhere that they had black clothing. Anyone know this for true? Anyway, black for primary didn't look so good, but...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Will do for now.


    OP updated with three new faction previews, including an old theme re-worked.
    Last edited by Demokritos; October 26, 2013 at 06:23 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  14. #54
    Dude with the Food's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Demokritos View Post
    The secondary colour for the Romans gets applied on the clothing for their Socii units, at least, and the shields of regular Roman units. But otherwise strangely omitted, as you say, unlike all other factions I know of. That Sacred Band is the first unit I've seen which also gets a special treatment with that secondary colour. Will check for the Praetorians later.

    Athens have no special ruling for secondary colour or any other colour. I've modded their whole roster without discovering anything in particular for them. I'm trying to utilize that special rule for the Sacred Band, however, in making their shields only red, as I think I've read somewhere that this was their mark. The trouble is that this colour will drown some of the designs on that shield, particularly those in red. Strange that CA did not give this unit more attention than clothing. Special shields would have been real nice for the Sacred Band, for the current shields are kind of bland, and their long-sleeved shirts are difficult to make look good in any colour.

    Very little of the armour in game is affected by editing the colours the DB way.

    This differing colour order application system must be set by a script somewhere. If you discover it, let me know, will you? It would facilitate my work a great deal.

    BTW, Dude, you don't happen to know why there are some units which are not affected by DB editing their colours at all? So far, the Greek Scorpions show no sign of being editable the way all other types of units are. This poses a problem for my Spartan idea in particular, as I would have liked the crew for the Spartan Scorpion to look like Helots, not Spartiates engaged in labour "beneath their status" without any armour etc in sight.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by the scorpion crews but there is a Gre_Art model which I assume applies to Spartan artillery crews. Checking in models_rome2/variantmeshdefinitions there doesn't seem to be anything more likely than that starting with either Gre or Spa. If you are changing the colours in units_variants_colours_tables then I'd try that.

    In the variantmeshdefinitions the Car_Sacred_Band use
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/armour/carthage_sacred_band.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for clothing and
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/shield/carthage_sacred_band_hoplons.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for the shields. In the same way only the praetorians use specific praetorian cloaks and legionaries use their specifc armour sets. The spcific colour use is definitely linked to the secondary colours and specific models. You'd have to ask a proper modeller to re-texture the sacred band hoplons so none of the designs are red though but they might find whatever causes them to all have the same colour.

    As for the tunics, the Phoenicians had a monopoly on indigo dyes. THey were very valuable but as the richer descendants of them, I've given the Sacred Band navy/indigo tunics and it works very well. I guess it's also why the vanilla ones wore purple but neither of those use red shields.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I am me. You are not me. You are you. If I was you, I wouldn't be me.
    If you were me, I'd be sad.But I wouldn't then be me because you'd be me so you wouldn't be me because I wasn't me because you were me but you couldn't be because I'd be a different me. I'd rather be any kind of bird (apart from a goose) than be you because to be you I'd have to not be me which I couldn't do unless someone else was me but then they would be you aswell so there would still be no me. They would be you because I was you so to restore balance you would have to be me and them meaning all three of us would become one continously the same. That would be very bad.


  15. #55
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Amazing work, as always. Can't wait for the first version's release !
    " Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! "

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Demokritos View Post
    The secondary colour for the Romans gets applied on the clothing for their Socii units, at least, and the shields of regular Roman units. But otherwise strangely omitted, as you say, unlike all other factions I know of. That Sacred Band is the first unit I've seen which also gets a special treatment with that secondary colour. Will check for the Praetorians later.

    Athens have no special ruling for secondary colour or any other colour. I've modded their whole roster without discovering anything in particular for them. I'm trying to utilize that special rule for the Sacred Band, however, in making their shields only red, as I think I've read somewhere that this was their mark. The trouble is that this colour will drown some of the designs on that shield, particularly those in red. Strange that CA did not give this unit more attention than clothing. Special shields would have been real nice for the Sacred Band, for the current shields are kind of bland, and their long-sleeved shirts are difficult to make look good in any colour.

    Very little of the armour in game is affected by editing the colours the DB way.

    This differing colour order application system must be set by a script somewhere. If you discover it, let me know, will you? It would facilitate my work a great deal.

    BTW, Dude, you don't happen to know why there are some units which are not affected by DB editing their colours at all? So far, the Greek Scorpions show no sign of being editable the way all other types of units are. This poses a problem for my Spartan idea in particular, as I would have liked the crew for the Spartan Scorpion to look like Helots, not Spartiates engaged in labour "beneath their status" without any armour etc in sight.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by the scorpion crews but there is a Gre_Art model which I assume applies to Spartan artillery crews. Checking in models_rome2/variantmeshdefinitions there doesn't seem to be anything more likely than that starting with either Gre or Spa. If you are changing the colours in units_variants_colours_tables then I'd try that.

    In the variantmeshdefinitions the Car_Sacred_Band use
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/armour/carthage_sacred_band.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for clothing and
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/shield/carthage_sacred_band_hoplons.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for the shields. In the same way only the praetorians use specific praetorian cloaks and legionaries use their specifc armour sets. The spcific colour use is definitely linked to the secondary colours and specific models. You'd have to ask a proper modeller to re-texture the sacred band hoplons so none of the designs are red though but they might find whatever causes them to all have the same colour.

    As for the tunics, the Phoenicians had a monopoly on indigo dyes. THey were very valuable but as the richer descendants of them, I've given the Sacred Band navy/indigo tunics and it works very well. I guess it's also why the vanilla ones wore purple but neither of those use red shields.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I am me. You are not me. You are you. If I was you, I wouldn't be me.
    If you were me, I'd be sad.But I wouldn't then be me because you'd be me so you wouldn't be me because I wasn't me because you were me but you couldn't be because I'd be a different me. I'd rather be any kind of bird (apart from a goose) than be you because to be you I'd have to not be me which I couldn't do unless someone else was me but then they would be you aswell so there would still be no me. They would be you because I was you so to restore balance you would have to be me and them meaning all three of us would become one continously the same. That would be very bad.


  17. #57

    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Looks extraordinarily good so far but I feel like you should change the name of the mod to historically realistic colors or something along the lines. Just a suggestion though, looking forward anyways!

  18. #58
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude with the Food View Post
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by the scorpion crews but there is a Gre_Art model which I assume applies to Spartan artillery crews. Checking in models_rome2/variantmeshdefinitions there doesn't seem to be anything more likely than that starting with either Gre or Spa. If you are changing the colours in units_variants_colours_tables then I'd try that.

    In the variantmeshdefinitions the Car_Sacred_Band use
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/armour/carthage_sacred_band.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for clothing and
    <VARIANT_MESH_REFERENCE definition="VariantMeshes/_VariantModels/man/shield/carthage_sacred_band_hoplons.VariantMeshDefinition" />
    for the shields. In the same way only the praetorians use specific praetorian cloaks and legionaries use their specifc armour sets. The spcific colour use is definitely linked to the secondary colours and specific models. You'd have to ask a proper modeller to re-texture the sacred band hoplons so none of the designs are red though but they might find whatever causes them to all have the same colour.

    As for the tunics, the Phoenicians had a monopoly on indigo dyes. THey were very valuable but as the richer descendants of them, I've given the Sacred Band navy/indigo tunics and it works very well. I guess it's also why the vanilla ones wore purple but neither of those use red shields.
    Regarding the Greek Scorpion crews, I simply meant the soldiers in all Greek Scorpion units (the smallest of siege weapons). If one tries to edit the colours for that unit through the unit_variant_colours, it never takes effect, whereas all other units I've tried so far, including other siege weapons (Polybolos, Ballista etc), it does. I wonder why that is. Haven't tested if this applies to all Scorpion units regardless of culture or if it's only a Greek thing, for some reason.

    Those variantmeshdefinitions for the Sacred Band you mention probably set the type of design it will have for clothing and shields. Retexturing them is so far the the only way to be in complete control of the colours they get, but that's too much work for me right now, and I can't be bothered to ask someone else to do it for me. Gustave has already come up with a beautiful solution in Carthaginian shields, should I think it's necessary to have them changed.

    I might concentrate on the clothing instead of the shields, as you suggest. Nice idea about the indigo dye. Like to reason like that myself. We'll see what I come up with. Found a source I want to test a new theme from. But the Sacred Band is a headache to make justice to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yerevan View Post
    Amazing work, as always. Can't wait for the first version's release !
    Quote Originally Posted by amelius View Post
    Looks extraordinarily good so far but I feel like you should change the name of the mod to historically realistic colors or something along the lines. Just a suggestion though, looking forward anyways!
    Thank you very much for your feedback, guys. Makes it all the more fun to work for the release.

    As for the name of the mod, amelius, you think the current one is too unassuming or something? Well, there's a reason for that. It builds on my first mod if this sort: ACC - Alternative Clan Colours for Shogun 2. That work earned me a name in some quarters of the community. I presented it as an Alternative to all other options in the field, and people learnt that it stood for a drive for realism. That's why I chose the name of ACR2 for the mod doing the same thing for Rome 2. It's just an Alternative. But, thanks to ACC, with a name like that, people have begun to know what to expect of it. It's not even proper English. It should be called Alternate Colours For Rome 2, but I like to make a point of it being an alternative to all things out there. You can read it like this if you want: Realistic Alternative For the Colours of Rome 2. Realism presupposes some anchorage in historical accuracy...


    OP updated with another faction preview. "Only" four or five to go now, depending on what I do with what I have for Macedon...


    But the Seleucids are another problem. My sources say they should also be primary red, plus probably white and yellow, in uniform colour! Sigh. How on Earth am I to solve this dilemma to satisfactory result? Leaning towards sacrificing some historical accuracy for the sake of greater variety and interest in the factions of this game...
    Last edited by Demokritos; October 28, 2013 at 04:31 AM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  19. #59

    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    two more photos, with a testing of GEM mod 2.3 something as i didnt like having no steam overlay to snap shots!
    2nd photo Romans out numbered by the Gauls! a roman shouting for retreat!
    1st an nice photo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013-10-27_00003.jpg   2013-10-27_00004.jpg  

  20. #60
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alternative Colours For Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeyshot View Post
    two more photos, with a testing of GEM mod 2.3 something as i didnt like having no steam overlay to snap shots!
    2nd photo Romans out numbered by the Gauls! a roman shouting for retreat!
    1st an nice photo
    The first one is superb! Now seriously, Hazey, you "must" submit that one to the competition here. If you like to participate in that sort of thing...

    Rep for your willingness to share great shots like that.


    On other matters, OP updated again.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

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