Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

  1. #1
    Gorecki's Avatar Yoshihara
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    78
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    I just recently read a book, about William Sinclair and Carlo Zeno's supposed trip across the atlantic to north American. Some historians, do not believe this happened but to me it made a very good case.
    In the debate for which european explorer "discovered" North America often people have strong national biases, but I was curious what the people on the forum think about the debate of discovering America.

    The book mentioned Phoenicians, Celtic, Roman, Egyptian, Welsh and Vikings traveling to North America before Christopher Columbus.

    Although I can't be certain, I think the vikings certainly were in North America before Columbus and I think probably a lot of other cultures have had been to north america too. Perhaps they settled and integrated in the indian populations or perhaps they kept it secret to take advantage of trade. In my opinion William Sinclair did have a successful trip to North America.

    Was a Roman or greek ship really incapable of going across the atlantic ocean?
    Last edited by Gorecki; September 17, 2006 at 05:34 PM.

  2. #2
    RZZZA's Avatar Praefectus Legionis
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    22,779
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    *shrug* I just attribute the discovery of America to Lief Erikson, and the name America to Amerigo Vespucci. And thats that.

    I dont believe columbus discovered America, considering that their were already natives here by the time he got here, how could he have discovered it? Made known to mainstream Europe? possibly. Discovered? definetly not.

    I never heard of the guy you talk about though.

  3. #3
    Evil Maniac From Mars's Avatar Suguchi
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    758
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorecki
    Although I can't be certain, I think the vikings certainly were in North America before Columbus and I think probably a lot of other cultures have had been to north america too. Perhaps they settled and integrated in the indian populations or perhaps they kept it secret to take advantage of trade. In my opinion William Sinclair did have a successful trip to North America.

    Was a Roman or greek ship really incapable of going across the atlantic ocean?
    It's almost definite that Vikings arrived many years before Columbus. A Viking village, containing many artifacts, was found in Newfoundland.



  4. #4
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Praefectus Cohortis
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Somewhere snowing... This damned holiday...
    Posts
    33,513
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    There were several Viking villiages in Greenland too. Hence there is no reason why they didn't sail somemore south into modern day's Canada.

  5. #5
    barabinni's Avatar Yoshihara
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    70
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    There is no question that the viking were in North-America before columbus. Only question is how far south they went.


    If anyone else from europe came to America before the Viking i have not seen much proof of that.

  6. #6
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, US
    Posts
    16,468
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorecki
    Was a Roman or greek ship really incapable of going across the atlantic ocean?
    I doubt it. Greek and Roman ships were not really ocean-worthy. But I very much believe that the Vikings came to America 400 some years before Columbus (its fact really) But they've not really discovered anything else to prove that any European (or African) got there before the Vikings.
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company
    -Mark Twain

  7. #7
    RZZZA's Avatar Praefectus Legionis
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    22,779
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    If the vikings came to america, it was the very northern reaches of North America...aka Canada...which to American minds, doesnt count as discovering "OUR" America.

  8. #8
    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wtf
    Posts
    6,364
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    The book mentioned Phoenicians, Celtic, Roman, Egyptian, Welsh and Vikings traveling to North America before Christopher Columbus.
    Its possible, but not important. If one or more of these cultures discovered America they did not make use of it, making there voyages insignifigant.

    Patron of Basileous Leandros I/Grimsta/rez/ Aemilianus/Publius/ Vizigothe/Ahiga /Zhuge_Liang Under Patronage of Lord Rahl
    MY TWC HISTORY

  9. #9
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, US
    Posts
    16,468
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA
    If the vikings came to america, it was the very northern reaches of North America...aka Canada...which to American minds, doesnt count as discovering "OUR" America.
    when I say "America" I mean the Americas (in this case, North America)
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company
    -Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Gorecki's Avatar Yoshihara
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    78
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott
    Its possible, but not important. If one or more of these cultures discovered America they did not make use of it, making there voyages insignifigant.
    I completely disagree.
    I don't even know where to begin that thinking that isn't logical.
    I can understand not believing pre-columbian contact, but what you said implyed a lot of things.

    1. you can decide what in history is significant and what is not.
    2. that certain peoples are more important than other.
    3. That the history of Native Americans pre-columbian is insignificant.

    I doubt proof that everyone would agree is proof of any of these voyages to North America will ever be found, however if there was proof that would be huge for the anthropological and historian communities.

  11. #11
    Big War Bird's Avatar Tribunus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    11,302
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    All one has to do to to decide who discovered America is to ask whose voyage changed everything. That's easy, Christopher Columbus.

  12. #12
    Xiaodun's Avatar Dog of the System
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,227
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    1. you can decide what in history is significant and what is not.
    2. that certain peoples are more important than other.
    3. That the history of Native Americans pre-columbian is insignificant.
    I believe you are mistaken about Kscott's post.

    Kscott didnt say that those voyages (if they happened) were insignificant because of the people who started them. He said they were insignificant because to our knowledge, they left very little and used the land for nothing. Its as if it never occured. Sure, if they had left gigantic colony cities then that would be significant. But I think it safe to say that some Phoenician dude coming by, looking at the continent and sailing back to Carthage/Tyre/Sidon would be pretty insignificant in terms of history. About as much importance as Nero tripping and bumping himself on the head.

    The Native Americans would be significant as they did inhabit the Americas and made several empires there.

  13. #13
    Idwayreth's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Posts
    822
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    There is also a belief that China made contact with the Americas during the 13th century.
    If God were a man he'd be me.

    At first i simply observed. But i found that without investment in others, life serves no purpose.

  14. #14
    Chinen
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    345
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    You should check this site :
    http://www.1421.tv/

    No seriously there are some theories that famous chinese admiral Zheng He discovered America in some of his journeys, about 80 years before Columbus.
    Last edited by Salvantis; September 18, 2006 at 11:55 AM.

  15. #15
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, US
    Posts
    16,468
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    even if the Chinese did get to the Americas before Columbus (which I doubt) it seems rather insignificant since, like Kscott said, they made no effort to colonize or trade with the area.
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company
    -Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Suguchi
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    865
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Well it's now thought that the original "Native Americans" were "Europeans" (who possibly floated across the Atlantic on ice sheets) and later interbred with the "Asians" who later moved into the area. "Native Americans" are about 1/3 of "European" descent IIRC, if you get my meaning.

  17. #17
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, US
    Posts
    16,468
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilting
    Well it's now thought that the original "Native Americans" were "Europeans" (who possibly floated across the Atlantic on ice sheets) and later interbred with the "Asians" who later moved into the area. "Native Americans" are about 1/3 of "European" descent IIRC, if you get my meaning.
    where did you see that? I haven't heard anything like that
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company
    -Mark Twain

  18. #18
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,501
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvantis
    You should check this site :
    http://www.1421.tv/

    No seriously there are some theories that famous chinese admiral Zheng He discovered America in some of his journeys, about 80 years before Columbus.
    They revolve around a map he supposedly made...which contains errors such as the island of California, which was very constant mistake made by european mapmakers 2 centuries later...

  19. #19
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,690
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Pre-Columbian explorers? What happened to the natives? Don't they count?
    Anyway, what I have learnt is that the vikings were the first (non Indians) to discover and settle on the North American continent.

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

  20. #20
    Big War Bird's Avatar Tribunus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    11,302
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Pre-Columbian explorers in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman
    where did you see that? I haven't heard anything like that

    I am aware of one find of an ancient skeleton or skull that had distinctly European traits well before any Europeans were ever to set foot in the New World. It was the subject of a lenghty court case a few years ago. I wish I could find an article on it.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •