Intentionally false advertising - How far will you go for Rome 2 ? - recreated

[alQamar]

Hello everyone,

THIS IS A RECREATED THREAD. The previous thread has been merged on my behalf, with the one of The Suketh. However, as I was not able to understand the strict rules he set in his OP.


REMARK FOR MODERATORS:
I asked for a merge. But on not reading his OP carefully enough, this was a wrong decision on my behalf.

This thread cannot simply be merged with Sukeths thread as, even at the first sight they seem similar, they completely follow other objectives. His one is to proove, (above) lawyer like evidence for false advertising.
On my thread a simple sourced based evidence is enough to not be declassified as "lies".

I am reopening the thread to recover the possibly for the communityy to leave worthy feedback in this case and own sourced false advertising.


SIMPLE THREAD RULES:
- If you post a claim against CA / SEGA please source it. The date when it has been published does not have to be stated in opposite to the above thread.
- Do not rant
- Do not swear
- Personal insults toward CA or members are not accepted and in severe cases I reserve the right to report according ToS.
- the things you post will not be collected in the OP, due lack of time - sorry for that in advance.


this is Rome 2 rant thread number 559 BUT this time with another approach. Let's collect provingly false advertising for Rome 2 altogether.

I just want to let you know that intentionally false advertising could led to 2 years jail according to laws in Germany. CA did that, and praise they to not have a german headquarter.

"we put more effort on AI than on every other Total War game" - busted
> view Angry Joes review - it was (is) worse than Empires at release

"Extremely scalable experience, with gameplay and graphics performance optimised to match low and high-end hardware alike"
said on Steam Store and they said once in a video, removed meanwhile from their websites. - busted
> only the half of that has become true. Not bad 36 fps on a 600 $ graphics card. Shogun 2 did over 100 fps with maxed out settings!

The german translation they published is even more awkward and more superlative and more promising:
"Gänzlich skalierbare Spielerfahrung mit optimierter Leistung für Ihren PC oder Laptop. Erleben Sie das fantastische Ausmaß von Total War: Rome II, unabhängig von Ihrer Systemkonfiguration."
Translated:
"Completely scalable experience, with optimised performance for your PC or Laptop. Experience the fantastic dimension of Total War: Rome 2, independent from your system configuration"




insane detailed and live graphics - busted > have a look on that screenshots:

- low res fire textures - actually they disappear when doing screenshots, why?
- dirt, reflections and other texture details (compare the helmets)
- HDR
- colors and saturation
- cropped textures (look at the fern)

everything is missing on that game. Once this game had better graphics before release or all videos and pictures have been edited with Adobe After Effects.

As I saw the first trailer, I knew these ones are edited but no one of my friends believed me, but believing they had +40% larger budget, and the graphics in Shogun 2 were already outstanding. Their opinion was understandable. Nothing else too add.

This is what we see on Steam and their previous ads and what we actually get:


Steam:


REALITY (maxed out settings):






Sorry CA, I love your company and games, but for my taste - this time you definitely went to far for Rome 2.

If you would be headquartered in Germany, be assured the "allmighty" german customer organisation would readily sent you a non-disclosure agreement, in order to change all the advertising for your product plus an offical regret for the things, otherwise, if you would have not agreed on this agreement the responsible would have been sued with a very clear judgement as above. Be aware Valve (Steam) has already been sued two times by them for violating rights in their terms of use, and soon (lawsuit is going on) we will certainly be able to resale our games on Steam, as things going good currently. The basic changes have been introduced already by them (a marketplace, trading etc.) so they seem to expect too loose. The german highest court at least made a clear statement Valve is not following the current law as applicable.

I am not out for war with you, but what you are doing with your newly created marketing department is far from any good and law.

Now TWC fans, how far will you go for Rome? More samples? Please submit them. But stay civil please.

[alQamar]

The difference in those screenshots seem to be down to photoshopping (contrast, flames) and high-res textures and advanced shader effects.

Leaving the photoshopping aside, I think the interesting thing is the shader effects, lighting and textures. Why did they scale all those back? Why not leave it in the "ultra" settings? Yes, it will bring people's computers to their knees, but that's why it's called ultra anyway, right?

I won't complain that my old computer can't run the game in super-detail mode, but it would be nice to know that I could if I upgraded my hardware. I just don't get it..

This question has been asked on totalwar.com. After a little personal intervention I was lucky to get a answer from CA staff, which was excusing but also escaping.

[alQamar]

This video is same way undergo Adobe Aftereffects or Sony Vegas filters like the screenshots. This is clearly misleading.

[Forward Observer]

I have watched that video from start to finish about 4 times now, and I see or hear nothing other than standard pre-game hype. They spend a lot of time talking about how they worked closely with Intel to utilize their new 4th gen (Haswell) processors--and they are inferring that the game will scale well on both desktops and laptops that have those processors. How many people actually have these CPU's since they only were released a few months ago? The typical consumer listens to these promos and only hears what they want to hear. Unfortunately, if they don't have such a processor then they may not get the experience that was described.

One of the guys who sort of promised the world was not even a CA employee, but was from Intel---so maybe you should be collecting data Intel also

Obviously the game was released before it was ready, but that doesn't make what these guys thought about the game at that particular point in time untrue or make them part of some sort of enormous false advertising conspiracy. To me they just appear for the large part to simply be enthusiastic about the work on the game they are doing with the new processors.

Watching these pre-release promo videos and then trying to go back and prove false advertising is because one is disappointed in the game is pretty much like trying to catch a fart and paint it blue.

Good luck with that!

[rbn1995]

I got a Haswell processor (i5 4670k) and a good gpu (gtx 770) but they still can't keep up, so the lack of optimization is pretty much for everyone.

[Humble Warrior]

I have watched that video from start to finish about 4 times now, and I see or hear nothing other than standard pre-game hype. They spend a lot of time talking about how they worked closely with Intel to utilize their new 4th gen (Haswell) processors--and they are inferring that the game will scale well on both desktops and laptops that have those processors. How many people actually have these CPU's since they only were released a few months ago? The typical consumer listens to these promos and only hears what they want to hear. Unfortunately, if they don't have such a processor then they may not get the experience that was described.

One of the guys who sort of promised the world was not even a CA employee, but was from Intel---so maybe you should be collecting data Intel also

Obviously the game was released before it was ready, but that doesn't make what these guys thought about the game at that particular point in time untrue or make them part of some sort of enormous false advertising conspiracy. To me they just appear for the large part to simply be enthusiastic about the work on the game they are doing with the new processors.

Watching these pre-release promo videos and then trying to go back and prove false advertising is because one is disappointed in the game is pretty much like trying to catch a fart and paint it blue.

Good luck with that!

Sigh, there is so much denial of reality in this post it`s amazing. I suspect you consider every lie, hype. Call it `hype`; it`s just like the phrase `sexing up`, another word design by the spin doctor companies to stop companies from feeling guilty for lying. Wanna stop business` feeling guily? Wanna stop CA staff feeling they`re doing something wrong? just call it `hype`. It`s STILL LYING.

Just to let you know, I have a Haswell and while it`s a big difference from my old Athlon I`m still not getting the performance I should get (and I have a new motherboard, 8gig sweet ram, graphics card, etc) . Thankfully, I didn`t get the Haswell just for this.

[alQamar]

The performance lack is well pointed and discussed out here on the official forums.

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...n-(discussion)
Their answer was they cannot tell us why they took out the features etc. as this is internal. But they apologize and are aware of that issue.

[LiquitHQ]

Wanna stop CA staff feeling they`re doing something wrong? just call it `hype`. It`s STILL LYING.

this is just so true ...

Just to let you know, I have a Haswell and while it`s a big difference from my old Athlon I`m still not getting the performance I should get (and I have a new motherboard, 8gig sweet ram, graphics card, etc) . Thankfully, I didn`t get the Haswell just for this.

My friend has a haswell as well and to my knowledge compared to my 3th generation I5 3470 and a gtx I run the game better then he does, I can set everything on extreme or ultra however I need to turn several stuff off to be able to run the game otherwise it will plain and simple crash.

I can not use anti aliasing, vega alpha, V-sync, vignette, SSAO, Disortion effect or D.R.A, On extreme I come not near the graphics they have been showing in their show cases and I bet a 1000 when a haswell would performs like they said it would you wouldn't get close eater ....

But for me its not the graphics that are that important, I rather want the graphics to be dumbed down a little and have a good working CAI and BAI in stead so I can finally can play an existing campaign ...

The performance lack is well pointed and discussed out here on the official forums.

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...n-(discussion)
Their answer was they cannot tell us why they took out the features etc. as this is internal. But they apologize and are aware of that issue.

Ive read their answer and apologies and for me it looked more like they are hiding behind legal matters and company secrets, always a win on their end, this way they shut you up...

we are aware of it but we can not do anything about it case closed

best of regards ...

[Forward Observer]

I have an I7-3820 (sandy bridge) with only a GTX 670OC with 4gb of VRam---and fortunately with the proper settings, the game runs quite well for me while also looking good graphically even if I can't run everything at "extreme".

My point is that whether one has such a processor or not and whether the game is working for them is purely anecdotal. If you are one of the unlucky ones then I hope your issues eventually get fixed.

Once again, I will repeat, it should be obvious that this game was released too soon and add that this also means that it was not properly tested on a wide range of systems. If one has been a PC gamer for any length of time this should not come as a great revelation.

From reading bits of inside info and hints around the web, I have seen enough evidence to make me think that CA knew the game was not ready, but was forced to meet Sega's release date. Having worked for a major corporation for years, I can emphasize with the situation that the developers may have been put in.

I assure you that I consider myself a realist, but to be so, one has to also above all be objective and consider all possibilities--even some that may not be negative.

Regardless of who's fault it was, the damage is done and it remains to be seen if they can repair it.

Is it right? Certainly not, but on the list of things in life to crusade against, I just simply have more important priorities right now.


However, in my opinion---trying to collect highly subjective data on an admittedly hostile fan forum (almost a lynch mob) to prove some sort of advertising conspiracy theory might just be on a fools errand.

It's just my opinion folks, and you know what your proctologist says about opinions.

To Humble Warrior.

I'm curious. Weren't you one who said they would not play Rome 2 if it were only released through Steam? In fact you even included your commitment in your anti-Steam signature at one time. However, I see you have removed the line now.

Cheers

[Humble Warrior]

But for me its not the graphics that are that important, I rather want the graphics to be dumbed down a little and have a good working CAI and BAI in stead so I can finally can play an existing campaign ...

Oh I totally and unresevedly agree. If Ca said we`re focusing totally on the BAI and CAI and leaving graphics till last I`d be overjoyed. I might even forgive them for almost everything.

[Dago Red]

Did you all see the screen tearing in the carthage video and other videos they released? It was (and still is) a hemorrhage of nearly catastrophic vertical tearing. While hordes of people were drooling over it and exclaiming that Rome II would be the best game in history, I was asking why they would release a video that was so blatantly visually flawed. As professional marketing material it was a huge failure -- if you measure failure in technical achievement and sophistication.

Imagine showing off the work of a modern Picasso or Leonardo Da Vinci at a gallery, but not even bothering to mend the shattered frame the painting was in or the smudges all over the canvas!

It's amateur hour. A CA rep responded when I asked: that it was all pre-alpha and such FPS/technical issues would be addressed, and not only would these issues be resolved, but the graphics would look even better at release!

Hoh hoh!!!

So we have one lot that drooled over that video and loved it, and another lot that saw a potential but also a huge mess.... and now we are all in agreement. The game is awful on release in every technical measure -- bugs, performance optimization, stability. And even more distressing, CA didn't fully deliver on any key feature or claim.

[=Vastator=]

Has anyone seen the elephant animations of carthage playthrough/trailers, or the one from this screen?
Elephants in the actual game have almost no combat animation...

[alQamar]

This is not a perfomance discussion thread nor we are discussing if graphics are "important" to individual players.

This thread aims at illegal actions CA and Sega did on advertising and failed claims which is illegal for European countries at least.

CA is a british company. Some of us are European customers so false advertising is a delict if it is done intentionally.

And it was done intentionally proovingly by their interview given on gamasutra.com where CA proudly said they put up an own marketing department with money from CA and put lots of efforts into that.

Please go on submitting false advertising or not fulfilled claimed in their marketing (all official videos and pictures or external interviews CA spread before release).
Please source everything you claim here.

[krisslanza]

Personally, I've had Rome 2 run just fine myself. While I can't run the game on Extreme, it did default to that, but I lowered it because my frames were getting pretty bad. From what I recall of Extreme, my own game was rather close to what was advertised. Not exactly, given I had popping of textures and my computer struggling to keep up but.

I wouldn't say CA did anything illegal at all. They said a lot of things, and they delievered it. The issue being a ton of technical issues and optimization issues cropped up, which is resulting in customers getting sub-par performance out of the game. This isn't the kind of thing you can reasonably prepare for, although it is honesty probably like this due to them not having quite enough time to check the game out on a variety of systems. Odds are their testing was on very specific set-ups, where it worked fine.

[Sharpe]

"we put more effort on AI than on every other Total War game" - busted
> view Angry Joes review - it was (is) worse than Empires at release

Just going to say this lad - do you really think they wanted the AI to be as poor or bugged as it is? They clearly did want it to be the best yet.

[alQamar]

Personally, I've had Rome 2 run just fine myself. While I can't run the game on Extreme, it did default to that, but I lowered it because my frames were getting pretty bad. From what I recall of Extreme, my own game was rather close to what was advertised. Not exactly, given I had popping of textures and my computer struggling to keep up but.

I wouldn't say CA did anything illegal at all. They said a lot of things, and they delievered it. The issue being a ton of technical issues and optimization issues cropped up, which is resulting in customers getting sub-par performance out of the game. This isn't the kind of thing you can reasonably prepare for, although it is honesty probably like this due to them not having quite enough time to check the game out on a variety of systems. Odds are their testing was on very specific set-ups, where it worked fine.

Not even close man please again have closer look on the screenshot with above! extreme preset and their screenshot on Steam there are ages of difference in detail. Most of all the helmets. It is not nitpicking but a sample of false advertising.

[johan_d]

What annoys me is in the Carthage video the voice said it was only 40% done, so will improve a lot.. and what did we got ? just the 40% minus what they showed.

[panzerschreck]

I am waiting for all the patches (I hope performance and optimisartion will be increased one day...) and then I could think in buying a new computer to play at least big battles, with 20 000 men for example.

[mutad1]

You're completely out of the way.They have delivered what they promised?Are you people on drugs?i have reinstaled ROME II after a week with tons of mods and I can't believe that someone can even for an hour,will be enjoying this game!!!No patches or mods can fix it!!!Where are those breathtaking graphics, where's a fun?Are you people complete blind and out of your mind?

[panzerschreck]

Has anyone seen the elephant animations of carthage playthrough/trailers, or the one from this screen?
Elephants in the actual game have almost no combat animation...

Exactly, this has to be be redone.