Is Christianity a Violent Religion?

[MasterAdnin]

name some things that the modern christianity does not do in 'rituals, rights and practices' that the old one did (excluding the violent ones)

You do know that in Christianity and Judaism women are supposed to cover themselves right? The practice of eating only certain foods, pork is not allowed, yet people do anyway. There are many more which I will find out and report back to you.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Miraj]

The titles before the quotes are leading you to a conclusion. Not only that but many of those quotes are taken way out of context. Many are parables, stories he told with a message within but not directly literal.

If you look at your source, Skeptics Annotated Bible, you can see there is a section with the Skeptics Annotated Quran that does the same exact thing to the Quran as it does and you are doing to the Holy Bible.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu...elty/long.html

Yes, and Muslims say the exact same thing when people throw violent Quran verses at them. It's out of context. This may indeed be true. But, as I've mentioned to Muslims about the Quran, why would God be so irresponsible to will such verses which can quite easily be used to justify intolerance and violence? At the best it shows that God is a very bad writer or inspiration for anything. The way I see it these verses can go equally both ways. Whether someone interprets it humanely and sees "symbolism" or whether a person interprets is literally and see direct and implicit demands for Christians to be intolerant and cruel - either path is equally legitimate. And that is the problem with both the Bible and the Quran.

And yes, I think the Skeptics Quran is a great prelimnary summary of the many flaws and morally questionable commandments of Islam. People should check it out.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Yes, and Muslims say the exact same thing when people throw violent Quran verses at them. It's out of context. This may indeed be true. But, as I've mentioned to Muslims about the Quran, why would God be so irresponsible to will such verses which can quite easily be used to justify intolerance and violence? At the best it shows that God is a very bad writer or inspiration for anything. The way I see it these verses can go equally both ways. Whether someone interprets it humanely and sees "symbolism" or whether a person interprets is literally and see direct and implicit demands for Christians to be intolerant and cruel - either path is equally legitimate. And that is the problem with both the Bible and the Quran.

And yes, I think the Skeptics Quran is a great prelimnary summary of the many flaws and morally questionable commandments of Islam. People should check it out.

I've seen only three groups of people who take the Quran all literally and out of historical and religous context.

1) Those with biased agendas looking for reasons to attack Islam and Muslims.

2) Religious extremists and terrorists.

3) Those who are not properly educated enough to understand Islam and the correct meaning of the Quran.

Most Muslims in the world don't seem to have this problem because they actually understand their own religion.

[Visna]

You do know that in Christianity and Judaism women are supposed to cover themselves right?

Really? Interesting. :hmmm:
The closest I have been able to find regarding women covering up, was this little gem:

"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head.
But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil."
Corinthians 11:4-6

[Miraj]

Most Muslims in the world don't seem to have this problem because they actually understand their own religion.

A Muslim that truly understands his religion has only 3 choices:

1) Become close-minded, intolerant and perhaps violent (if he isn't already)
2) Turn into an apostate and realize he can't keep lying to himself anymore
3) Try not to think about it too much and just keep telling yourself "islam is peace. islam is peace. islam is peace"


I was #3 for a loooooong time. But any Muslim that respects rationality and reason will eventually turn to #2, at least private - as I have done.

[MasterAdnin]

A Muslim that truly understands his religion has only 3 choices:

1) Become close-minded, intolerant and perhaps violent (if he isn't already)
2) Turn into an apostate and realize he can't keep lying to himself anymore
3) Try not to think about it too much and just keep telling yourself "islam is peace. islam is peace. islam is peace"


I was #3 for a loooooong time. But any Muslim that respects rationality and reason will eventually turn to #2, at least private - as I have done.

Then what about the thousands of people who convert and feel happy about their decision for the rest of their lives? I know many, they are all caucasion New Yorkers who feel Islam has helped them in their lives.

Really? Interesting. :hmmm:
The closest I have been able to find regarding women covering up, was this little gem:

"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head.
But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil."
Corinthians 11:4-6

That is from the NT isn't it? I was talking about the OT, and again, this shows how people take advantage of Hazarat Isa's(PBUH) generosity.


Salaam,
Adnan

[Richard the Lionheart]

A Muslim that truly understands his religion has only 3 choices:

1) Become close-minded, intolerant and perhaps violent (if he isn't already)

Most of the 1.2 billion Muslims are not like that.

2) Turn into an apostate and realize he can't keep lying to himself anymore

Most of the 1.2 billion Muslims do not think that way.

3) Try not to think about it too much and just keep telling yourself "islam is peace. islam is peace. islam is peace"

Thus the point that they need to understand their religion instead of taking everything literally and out of context.

I was #3 for a loooooong time. But any Muslim that respects rationality and reason will eventually turn to #2, at least private - as I have done.

So anyone who is a Muslim is irrational? Only Muslims? Or do you think all religious people are irrational? Because afterall, most atheists do think that religion is irrational.

[Miraj]

Most of the 1.2 billion Muslims are not like that.



Most of the 1.2 billion Muslims do not think that way.



Thus the point that they need to understand their religion instead of taking everything literally and out of context.



So anyone who is a Muslim is irrational? Only Muslims? Or do you think all religious people are irrational? Because afterall, most atheists do think that religion is irrational.

Most Muslims are good rational people who prefer to treat Islam as their cultural heritage and a nice thing to do on fridays. People like religions in their lives as something to base around. So most Muslims practice preferential selection of Islam as a sort of customary or ritualistic thing.

My parents for example, they like the prayers because it enforces disciple. They like reciting the Quran because its makes them feel good and spiritual. They like the piety and humbleness of fasting during Ramadan. They like the communal feeling of going to prayers of friday. They like firm beliefs, because we all need beliefs. They also like being Muslim because Islam was the religion of their deceased mothers and fathers and its a way of honouring them by being religious.

So, no not all Muslims are irrational. I believe in the dualistic and doublethink nature of man. A person might believe that the Quran is true but not really believe or practice everything mentioned in it. And a vast majority of Muslims are not dogmatic fundamentalists and don't really think about it much since there is this thing called "life" that keeps them quite busy.

Then what about the thousands of people who convert and feel happy about their decision for the rest of their lives? I know many, they are all caucasion New Yorkers who feel Islam has helped them in their lives.


That is from the NT isn't it? I was talking about the OT, and again, this shows how people take advantage of Hazarat Isa's(PBUH) generosity.


Salaam,
Adnan

The 3 choices I mentioned are in relation to what a Muslim must do when faced with the intolerance and violence present in the hadiths and Quran. Of course I don't believe those verses define Islam as a whole. There are a lot of other things to Islam. Those people that convert are simply people who are looking for some moral firmness which western society and christianity can't give them.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Please post whatever event or religious dogma from Christian history or the bible that highlights sensational violence and intolerence.

Christianity is not a violent religion, those who practice it have broken church law by going to war in god's name or killing in his name. These do not represent Christianity, they were merely poor christians, but christians none-the-less.

[hekk]

As i said earlier.



Would have been alot better if you just searched after the Crusades on google or wikipedia.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Christianity is not a violent religion, those who practice it have broken church law by going to war in god's name or killing in his name. These do not represent Christianity, they were merely poor christians, but christians none-the-less.

Some said Osama represent what Islam is and even accepted as fact especially in the western world.. So ? For 2000 years there are no Christians ? Those who have persecuted the Jews and Pagans after Christianity merged with the Roman Empire ?

[Carach]

You do know that in Christianity and Judaism women are supposed to cover themselves right?

do you know the story of adam and eve?

adnin your belief that a reformed religion = no religion/bad religion proves my point about islamic teachings and education, i dont blame you, i blame the religion and its leaders - who daily deny other religions, openly insult them etc etc - your just another victim of islamic propaganda.

Only a muslim would say what you said (apart from atheists that believe all religions = bad)

[boofhead]

You do know that in Christianity and Judaism women are supposed to cover themselves right? The practice of eating only certain foods, pork is not allowed, yet people do anyway. There are many more which I will find out and report back to you.

Salaam,
Adnan

Not true for Christians. Paul advises in one of his letters that if a Christian visits 'gentiles' and is asked in and offered gentile food, then it is better to observe the gentile habits than to offend them by not doing so. His point is that a gentile is unlikely to hear the word and be saved if already offended.

Jesus was all about 'getting rid of the old and bringing in the new'. Hence the 'New Testament' replaces the 'Old', however the 'Old' is retained as an historical/prophetic tome. He warned against the use of ritual or phrases as a yardstick of spirituality or holiness. This would include the hundreds of Jewish 'laws', such as pork consumption. Christians do not observe all that Jewish 'tabernacle' stuff and so forth.

Some minority Christian groups forbid themselves pork, certain seafoods, blood etc, (Seventh Day Adventists; Jehovah's Witnesses etc) but it not generally considered necessary at all.

The laws are for Jews. Jesus was a Jew but most of his followers nowadays are Gentiles.

With all due respect Adnan, you are wrong about Christians in this respect.

Similarly, the covering up of women idea. The New Testament says women should be modest, and only says that they should cover their heads if they lead a group in prayer. This is ignored by nearly all Christians as it is only a cultural symbol used by the Jews at the time. Again, it has nothing to do with gentiles, who make up 99.99999999% of Christians.

[Ummon]

Because now the west is seeing Muslims like they see Blacks. Criminals and bad bad people.

I do not see blacks as criminals and bad people.

I do not see muslims as criminals and bad people, as well.

I see muslims like people (good and bad) who follow an intolerant, potentially if not inherently violent faith.

It's obvious from the way people look at me and my family when we go into stores, what people say about Islam, and what they ask me. It's pretty obvious to Muslims and Blacks, unlike white people who never go through this stuff.

Salaam,
Adnan

I do not advocate prejudice, yet I suggest something. When something goes wrong, there are two things to do.

1) examine the behaviours of others
2) examine one's own

Doing only the first is not enough.

[Carach]

ummon, adnin is full of generalisations and stereotypes, he complains when people make similar (to him) remarks about islam, but its ok for him to make those same generalisations against whites and the west in general.

its another one of those "aww we lead such a hard life.." moans.

Your getting no sympathy from me im afraid adnin - most of the time you prove my point that islam is intolerant.

[Visna]

That is from the NT isn't it? I was talking about the OT, and again, this shows how people take advantage of Hazarat Isa's(PBUH) generosity.


Salaam,
Adnan

Yes, it's from the NT.
Humm... I haven't been able to find anything from the OT about women covering up. But women's position, especially in the OT is downright ******, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was something there. Compared to the OT, the NT is almost nice to women. Sure, there are bigots like Paul for instance, but generally the NT is a bit more mellow, at least in that regard.

Which brings me to another question. How do most Christians view the OT? Is it like a history of the Jews, full of metaphors, a brief introduction to the ideas Jesus (May God have mercy on his soul) were up against, or do they take it seriously?
I know there are some, who take it quite literally, God created the world in 6 days, and they believe it when some Franciscan monk (whose name eludes me), calculated the age of the world to 6000 years etc. They are simply beyond pedagogical reach. What I'm talking about is those who think of themselves as Christian. How do they view the OT?

[boofhead]

Yes, it's from the NT.
Humm... I haven't been able to find anything from the OT about women covering up. But women's position, especially in the OT is downright ******, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was something there. Compared to the OT, the NT is almost nice to women. Sure, there are bigots like Paul for instance, but generally the NT is a bit more mellow, at least in that regard.

Which brings me to another question. How do most Christians view the OT? Is it like a history of the Jews, full of metaphors, a brief introduction to the ideas Jesus (May God have mercy on his soul) were up against, or do they take it seriously?
I know there are some, who take it quite literally, God created the world in 6 days, and they believe it when some Franciscan monk (whose name eludes me), calculated the age of the world to 6000 years etc. They are simply beyond pedagogical reach. What I'm talking about is those who think of themselves as Christian. How do they view the OT?

I view the OT as a necessary prelude to the NT. Without the OT the NT has no context whatsoever.

The OT is about the Father. It is the history of the Jews, their Laws, their prophecies. Jesus is foretold.

The NT is about the Son. Jesus came to wipe away the old and bring in the new. No longer could ritual save the man. The sacrificial rituals are replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus which is not animal blood on an altar or repeating some prayer incessantly but the Blood of Christ in a Christian's heart.

The OT and NT together are like a symphony. Each book is a note or series of notes. Without the whole you have discordant nonsense. They go together. It is a case of THIS IS HOW IT WAS and THIS IS HOW IT NOW WILL BE.

My humble opinion as a Christian but I may not speak for other Christians.

EDIT: May I just expand a little and tell you about this particular Christian and violence?

10 years ago I was jailed for violence, and I was a Christian at the time (I lost my temper over a girl big-time and took it out on the guy who was sleeping with her behind my back). Does this make Christians violent? NO. It makes me an idiot.

When Jehovah's Witnesses and the like come to my door to convert me to their way of seeing things I feel like getting violent. I just tell them to **** off but with a smile. I am human. This is verbal violence.

If some muslim murderer threatened my family would I get violent? Indeed I would I believe, as I am only too human. But does this make Christianity a violent religion? NO. It just exposes me as a Christian with some anger-control issues and maybe a little latent mean-streak.

It is part of my sinful nature which Christianity helps me to defeat.

And those Christians who go around trying to convert everyone they come across - they are a pain in the arse. They **** me to tears. That is a form of psychological violence getting in people's faces all the time. My philosophy is that it does more harm than good. My method is simple: I live the best life I can and always try to be happy and positive and give a good example. This sometimes leads people to ASK ME about my beliefs. That is when I will tell them. And Gabriella you just asked me so I gave you some!

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, that encapsulates it all pretty well I think. All I'd add is that the New Testament isn't just about the sacrifice of Christ - the real focus, something that Western Christians often seem to ignore, is Christ's conquest of death and resurrection (hence the Orthodox refer to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre as the Church of the Holy Resurrection). Thus, ultimately, death will have no power over man.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Some said Osama represent what Islam is and even accepted as fact especially in the western world.. So ? For 2000 years there are no Christians ? Those who have persecuted the Jews and Pagans after Christianity merged with the Roman Empire ?

Does Christ preach destruction of non-belevers? Nope. Therefore CHRISTIANITY is pure of violence. It's the individual christian who has violent tendencies, or groups of them. Don't blast the religion itself for the misdeeds of a few.

[Tom Paine]

Christ's words are not all of Christianity, by any means; they aren't even all the gospels.