View Poll Results: What name for the Mod would you prefer. vote or the sea people will come for you!

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  • Heroic Age: Total War

    47 8.67%
  • Total War: Ancient Civilazations

    39 7.20%
  • Total War: Dawn of Civilazations

    73 13.47%
  • Total War: Age of Bronze

    366 67.53%
  • Total War: Dusk of an Era

    17 3.14%
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Thread: Age of Bronze - General Discussion

  1. #141
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Im glad you liked the Iberian names and although im not Basque I do know where to get a lot of information on it and proto basque.
    Also, given the comments about my Assyrian roster, Middle Assyrias army seemed to have been very similar to old assyria and they both seemed to use Akkadian as a lingua franca.
    I will update my roster later today if you think it has potential.
    Ill also do some faction stuff on the rest of Iberia and North Africa.
    We should also try to do some advertising for skinners so PM doesnt have to do it all.
    Have a good day
    Last edited by Dontfearme22; October 03, 2013 at 08:12 AM.

  2. #142
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by billydilly View Post
    @ Brivime

    Feel free to add names to the list in post #119. I'll update later.

    I have used the Rome 2 faction list and added some names. Of course factions shouldn't be called "Proto..."-anything, but it is difficult to find names. If you check out the Rome 2 map here: http://maps.totalwar.com/?mode=explorer then you will see that there are 7 minor factions in Arabia that need names
    Perhaps you could change the geography a bit? It would seem now that the first Semitic peoples started in southern Jordan, then expanded up into Lebanon then across the Euphrates river down into the Gulf. The nomadic component of this population was pushed into the Syrian desert where they domesticated the camel and conquered the Arabian peninsula.

    When the Ma'rib dam broke in Yemen, all of the south Arabian civilizations began to migrate northwards and they began to mix with the Arab tribes. They started to "Yemenize" the Arabs culturally and linguistically. Before this migration, the Arabs were virtually indistinguishable from the other Semitic populations of the north, except in the fact that they were nomadic.

    I have come up with these names for you and a possible GENERAL unit roster, you may want to add or remove units for different factions as suits you.

    Qidri = Kedarites (Qidri should really retain the same name since there is evidence they were trading with Assyrians for long periods of time.) I do not feel Arameans is a suitable name since Arameans were in the north of Syria and Qidri is situated south of Babylonia.
    Mascat = Majan (So you know you have Mascat listed twice on the factions roster.)
    Nabatea would be fine simply as Bado since this is the region the Bedouin originate from and migrated into the rest of the peninsula from.
    Himyar = Thamud
    Saba = Ād People

    I'd leave Saba and Himyar with the suggested names, good job to whoever found them. If possible merge Mascat with
    Ād People it is more accurate.

    Roster:

    Nasi Medinata = Provincial Militia
    Nas a'Saif = Light Swordsmen
    Ramata = Archers
    Ramatan Malk = Royal Archers
    Muhimim al Rabb = General's Bodyguard
    Saifim = Swordsmen
    Ruma Adaim = Spearmen
    Gamal Ramata = Camel Archers

    Armour should be similar to Assyrians, Camel Archers should be topless with a studded band across their chest.

  3. #143
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    i'd say we go for chariots mainly and add a very late camel cavalry technology for the near eastern factions.
    whotcha think?

    m glad you liked the Iberian names and although im not Basque I do know where to get a lot of information on it and proto basque.
    Also, given the comments about my Assyrian roster, Middle Assyrias army seemed to have been very similar to old assyria and they both seemed to use Akkadian as a lingua franca.
    I will update my roster later today if you think it has potential.
    Ill also do some faction stuff on the rest of Iberia and North Africa.
    We should also try to do some advertising for skinners so PM doesnt have to do it all.
    Have a good day
    yep, iberian is great, as we have no other reliable sources for faction/tribal names in that area and timeframe

    considering expanding the roster we could seperate the units in light, medium and heavy.
    for infantry the armour and weapons will be the indicators for their class and for chariots i thought about 2 horses for light and 4 for heavy. IF its possible to modthe number of horses ofcourse!

    like this:
    I guess there should be some levels:
    Light: Spearmen, swords, axes, javelins, archers?, slingers?
    Medium troops: Spearmen, swords, javelins, archers and cavalry
    Heavy troops: Spearmen/Pikemen, swords,axes, cavalry and chariots
    Elite: ...
    without cavalry ofcourse....
    but pikemen would be a very interesting option. this should be researched.
    i'd suggest we concentrate on the middle eastern warfare for now.
    and as hittites, assyrians, mitanni, egypt and the minor states in that region used nearly the same tactics we can generalize it pretty well.
    naturally i'll add some specialities of the unique factions. like two-handed axe- or clubmen for egypt, elite archers for assur, hittite royal guard, etc.

  4. #144
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Basically the armour should be from a sort of local influence since Arabs have always been mainly traders and nomads, especially with Mesopotamia.

    Here would be a good base for the Muhimimal Rabb

    Osprey image removed. ~Chloe
    Last edited by Legio; November 25, 2013 at 06:31 AM.

  5. #145
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    thanks brivime, i'll use your general rosters till we know it better or leave them if they are perfect already!

    EDIT:
    mascat and Ad people: what was the relation? who was conquered by whom?
    who was the ruler, who the vassal of the other?
    or were they just the same people with different names?
    Last edited by PunitorMaximus; October 03, 2013 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #146
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by PunitorMaximus View Post
    thanks brivime, i'll use your general rosters till we know it better or leave them if they are perfect already!

    EDIT:
    mascat and Ad people: what was the relation? who was conquered by whom?
    who was the ruler, who the vassal of the other?
    or were they just the same people with different names?

    As far as I know the Ad People were spread across Yemen and Oman that is why I suggested merging them.
    The Ad however did not get as far as the city of Mascat.

    I would also suggest, after doing some research that you rename Himyar to Qahtan and Saba to The Ad People since Qahtan lived west of the Ad.

    You might also want to add this to the roster:

    Nas Jaridim - Militia Javelinmen

    I'd also give some Assyrian units to the Kedarites.

  7. #147
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Also unrelated, Cyprus was just hellenized in 1400 BC so I would suggest making it a colony of Mycenaean settlers.
    Perhaps make it a Satrap state.

    Out of interest are you making Phoenicians or Canaanites? I would suggest Phoenicians since the time period. They should have Greek style armour and purple and white garments under it.


    Regarding the Minoans,

    "Despite this evidence, the exact date of the eruption has been difficult to determine. For most of the twentieth century, archaeologists placed it at approximately 1500 BCE,[15] but this date appeared to be too young as radiocarbon dating analysis of an olive tree buried beneath a lava flow from the volcano indicates that the eruption occurred between 1627 BCE and 1600 BCE with a 95% degree of probability"

    They probably abandoned the island after that and it was known they got corrupted.


    Off topic, if you would like me to help in your team for research on the Arabian factions I would be glad to help out.

  8. #148

    Default Re: Bronze Age: Total War [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Some of the factions are historically inaccurate.
    To begin with, Cyprus should be in the Hellenic factions since it got Hellenized by the Mycenaeans in 1400 BC.
    Secondly, I don't think that Minoans should have their own faction, Minoan civilization got destroyed around 1600 BC and Knossos was abandoned in 1400-1200 BC.
    Thirdly, Epirus was not Achaean (tribe). Epirus was probably a Mycenaean colony because of the evidence found. It's still unknown who were the Achaeans, most historians tend to believe that they lived in the Peloponnese and had Mycenaean ancestry. Achaeans never settled in Epirus (Correct me if I am wrong).

    Good luck with the mod.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    As stated above Cyprus was hellenic in/after 1400BC, so I recommend you to make it a client state of the Mycenaeans.

    Also Epirus was indeed never settled by the achaeans, as I said before if it is possible make larissa the Thessalians, and I just found that near Apollonia the Greek tribe named the Thesprotians lived in epirus. note that I am from Epirus myself. if you cant make 2 separate factions, then you have to choose from the 2 factions which I stated before.

    Knossos got captured in around 1400 BC by the Mycenaeans and the civilization was gone in around 1250-1200BC, so Minoans is okay.

    Yes the Achaeans are awesome, but it is not historical accurate then.

  10. #150

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by greekmen View Post
    As stated above Cyprus was hellenic in/after 1400BC, so I recommend you to make it a client state of the Mycenaeans.

    Also Epirus was indeed never settled by the achaeans, as I said before if it is possible make larissa the Thessalians, and I just found that near Apollonia the Greek tribe named the Thesprotians lived in epirus. note that I am from Epirus myself. if you cant make 2 separate factions, then you have to choose from the 2 factions which I stated before.

    Knossos got captured in around 1400 BC by the Mycenaeans and the civilization was gone in around 1250-1200BC, so Minoans is okay.

    Yes the Achaeans are awesome, but it is not historical accurate then.
    Greekmen, Knossos was completely destroyed after the eruption and the Minoan civilization as it was known left with it. Knossos was completely abandoned around 1400-1200 BC. I'd prefer of Crete to be under Mycenaean rule.

    P.S: Ελληνας;

  11. #151

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Yea I see now, the palace was abandoned between 1300-1100BC, still there is a chance people lived there.
    In my opinion minoans should be on Crete but then client state of the Mycenaeans.

    ναι είμαι Eλληνας φίλε

  12. #152
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    If you want Arameans, which I do suggest you add then put Seleucids as either just Arameans or Palmyreans.

    Arameans being more accurate.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Brivime View Post
    If you want Arameans, which I do suggest you add then put Seleucids as either just Arameans or Palmyreans.

    Arameans being more accurate.
    You do know Assyrians are the same as Aramaeans?

  14. #154
    madrush's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    for the poll names i thought of Age of Heroes Total War

  15. #155

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    if you are planning later in the future to model historical settlements accurately, i uncovered a wealth of information for all the fortified city states along Palestine

  16. #156
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Brivine: thanks, very usable info. you're in now

    about thessaly and thesprotia
    thessaly will belong to mycenae directly, while athenai, rhodos, cyprus and knossos (not minoan, just a mycenaean colony) are vassal kingdoms of mycenae

    while Thesprotia in epirus will be an independent state.
    for this decicion between the options you showed me i based on maps like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    so saba and mascar should be the ad. check.

    if you are planning later in the future to model historical settlements accurately, i uncovered a wealth of information for all the fortified city states along Palestine
    in the future, yes.
    at the moment the "desert-nomadic" culture of vanilla will do it. you saw it? the construction is almost identical to bronze age mesopotamian.
    what do you think?

    BTW: arameans are part of assur

  17. #157
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    these strange mycenaean helmets are kinda impossible to make for me. well have to wait for new tools.
    anyways, which of theses helmets would you suggest to include for now?
    ofcourse they should be possible to make by combinating existing helmet part...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


  18. #158

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    still digging through journals and books in the library, but this is what i've found so far:

    Assyrians: Unit Names
    (can't type in most of the appropriate accents, found most names off a royal letter giving info on the army size and types of troops. this letter is after bronze age, may affect the accuracy of the names)

    Salsiitte : triple chariot
    Duhmes: light, 2 man chariot
    Aramean auxiliary archers: shorter hair held in place by headband, skirt cut well above the knee
    Qurraeans: auxiliary spearmen, crested bronze helmet, round shield, crossed chest straps
    Kallapu: standard infantryman
    Saknu: captain

    Assyrians usually brought with them priests and diviners to battle for sacrifices (morale bonus for unit?)

    If you don't think names are accurate, there is also a site that translates English into Akkadian, which was used by the Old and Middle Assyrian empire http://www.premiumwanadoo.com/cuneif...ary/search.php

    Sea Peoples


    Philistine soldier weaponry: 2 spears, stabbing sword (no slashing). All clean shaven. Round shields.

    Shekelesh: similar to Philistine dress, but headdress is head-cloth held in place by a fillet around the forehead. Head cloth resembles a pastry chef’s hat tilted back. Warrior has a medallion around his neck, bearded. Medallions worn around the neck were common for Syrians as well. Same weaponry as Philistines

    Teresh: same as Shekelesh but no medallion

    Shekelesh and Teresh wear the Canaanite-style bandage strip armor.
    Last edited by trinhbot; October 03, 2013 at 08:17 PM.

  19. #159
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    the final two iberian faction names:
    Lusitani = Luditazai(due to the contreversy of whether or not the Lusitani are direct descendants of the bronze age iberians or immigrants, I have simply gone with the first option and "basqued" their name to fit proto-basque/ iberian linguistic rules)
    Turdetani = Harenjete(The El Argar culture here would have just collapsed, meaning while the people lived differently from the El Argar, they called themselves the same name being with 2,3 generations of the collapse)

    And my updated assyrian roster(still in akkadian):
    Post-independence from Mitanni kingdom:
    Elite units:
    Elite Swordsmen - namṣāru muqtablu
    Noble Chariots(4 horse) - mār damqi attartu
    Elite Archers-namṣāru madaktu

    Heavy:
    War Chariots(2 horse)-dappānu mašīru
    Assyrian Axemen- kalmakru ubāru
    armoured spearmen-nāš kabābi azmarê

    Medium:
    Hurrian mercenaries(horsemen) - Hanigalbat ša pētḫalli

    Light:
    Levy Spearmen - ālik madaktu ša-arīti
    Levy Swords - ālik madaktu ṭabḫu

    As a present, heres a program someone has found for Rome 2 that might help making units/models:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-exporter-ms3d

    the african names will most likely come tomorrow, there just so time consuming to research
    Ill make some faction rosters too if I have time
    bye
    Last edited by Dontfearme22; October 03, 2013 at 10:33 PM.

  20. #160

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    so I found this in one of the articles
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I was thinking that considering the Sumerians employed this siege shield, it would be safe to say that Assyrians used this as well before the 9th century. So maybe this could be used as a defense during set up, like the balls of flame, during a siege or just normal battle? not sure if this is something moddable but it would be a pretty cool feature...
    Last edited by Legio; November 25, 2013 at 06:32 AM.

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