No varying tax rates by city or province in Rome II. WTF? Who thought this was a good idea?

[Dunadd]

I thought initially that i just hadn't worked out yet how to vary taxes in individual cities or provinces, but no the Advisor helpfully explains that taxes can't be set on a city or province level but only on a faction-wide level. WTF? Who thought this was a good idea? Does it make the game more fun to play? No. Does it make it more interesting? No. Is it historically accurate? No.

Rome I allowed you to have different tax rates in different settlements, which made managing an empire viable and was historically accurate. Why take this huge backward step in a game that's meant to be an improvement on Rome I? Seriously boggles the mind. Why? Why? Why?

[Rebel1776]

This is a growing trend in many mainstream Turn-based titles. This is what many of us call "Streamlining", or more correctly known as dumbing down.

Total Wars have gradually been turning into Streamlined games for dummies that's more for the "cinematic atmosphere" of battles than actual complex Empire management, which is what the TW titles used to be, and SHOULD be.

The Province system? The principles of the idea are phenomenal and could add so much additional complexity to empire management, but its execution is just downright piss poor.

You couldnt vary tax rates in Shogun 2, it was either taxed, or tax exempted. So its no surprise that there is NO change in Rome 2.

[Dunadd]

I can understand why they might want to have an option for empire wide taxation rate for casual gamers outside the core market, but i really don't understand why they couldn't have had an option for turning on taxation by province or by settlement.

[karamazovmm]

the series had a wide faction tax set, you could just set it.

I actually want back that control, I really miss the custom tax rates, with squalor being a pain, I want to exercise more control

[Rebel1776]

We still don't have a method of having "Marathon" length games if we want in the stock game. So casualisation, or dumbing down, is the new order of the day in modern gaming.

Hell with the "40% increased budget" they bragged about, you would think that CA would have taken features and game mechanics that were simple and made them more complex, but instead they've either removed them, kept them the same, or further streamlined them.

The Provincial system, as an example, was a step forward, but given its....disturbing amount of simplicity, its only a baby step.

[Sharpe]

The provincial specialization really needs varying tax rates.

Looking at you CA.

[KiLKaras]

The more I hear about this game, the more I'm glad I didn't pre-order it. Adjusting the tax for various cities was essential to balance your budget imo, how could they get rid of it....

[kerrfox]

I find it odd to hear so many complaints that have been implemented in previous TW before Rome II came out. There are legitimate complaints related specifically to Rome II, then there are complaints from those who - for whatever reason - have not played one or more of the TW games previous to Rome II. I just find it a bit odd .. that's all.

[I2ain_2_Battle]

id really like to hear CA's input on this. maybe Jack Lusted? why did ca choose to dumb down the game by giving the player less options to choose from? this is one of the dumbest ideas ever

[Doe3000]

This is a growing trend in many mainstream Turn-based titles. This is what many of us call "Streamlining", or more correctly known as dumbing down.

Total Wars have gradually been turning into Streamlined games for dummies that's more for the "cinematic atmosphere" of battles than actual complex Empire management, which is what the TW titles used to be, and SHOULD be.

The Province system? The principles of the idea are phenomenal and could add so much additional complexity to empire management, but its execution is just downright piss poor.

You couldnt vary tax rates in Shogun 2, it was either taxed, or tax exempted. So its no surprise that there is NO change in Rome 2.

I'm pretty sure you could make provinces tax exempt in Shogun 2. But yes, I'd love a return to the old tax system. Unfortunately a wide set tax rate for every province under your control has been a feature of the series since at least Empire back in 2009.

[karamazovmm]

I find it odd to hear so many complaints that have been implemented in previous TW before Rome II came out. There are legitimate complaints related specifically to Rome II, then there are complaints from those who - for whatever reason - have not played one or more of the TW games previous to Rome II. I just find it a bit odd .. that's all.

the economic complexity of this game makes such feature more of a necessity

and I still missed on previous games

[Dunadd]

I find it odd to hear so many complaints that have been implemented in previous TW before Rome II came out. There are legitimate complaints related specifically to Rome II, then there are complaints from those who - for whatever reason - have not played one or more of the TW games previous to Rome II. I just find it a bit odd .. that's all.

Pretty simple - lots of people didn't want to play Shogun II or Empire Total War or Napoleon Total War because they weren't interested in those historical periods or settings. I didn't play or buy any of them so i never payed any attention to them.

[Xanto]

I use to always set my tax levels the same anyway, kind of don't miss this feature all the much. I think there are other missing features worth being upset more over than this.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

surely it would be best to have a provincial taxation system!
This "streamlines" micromanagement while still actually allowing some level of control. For regions not part of a fully-controlled province, well either you could individually control their tax OR you could not be allowed to change tax (I would prefer this option)

[Rebel1776]

Being able to separately tax settlements was handy for extra income if that city could handle the unrest it would generate.

More gameplay tools and mechanics generally make games BETTER. Complexity and depth are GOOD things so long as its not muddled by a god awful UI.

However we've all seen CA slowly do this since Empire's release.

I remember a time when Shogun Total War came out and I enjoyed it. Midieval came out and it added features that Shogun didnt have in a European setting. Then Rome came out and it was revolutionary for the series with the interactive map and added depth to Total War as a whole. Then Midieval 2 was released and I fell in love with yet another title as my most played Total War game ever.

Then Empire came out, and I dont even know where to start with that mess. Shogun 2 was just a slightly improved Empire with a little more polish, and a fantastic multiplayer experience. That was CA's first real step FORWARD in my book, was the additions they made for Multiplayer, but there have been many steps backwards, balancing and bugs aside I find the Pre-Empire games superior in terms of gameplay, cool animations aside.

[Kenios]

Dignitaries are the your province-wide taxation sliders.

[crzyrndm]

Here is the official reasoning:

If you bring the tax rate to the province level, taxation becomes a chore: Each turn, the optimizing player will have to go through each one of his provinces and adjust the tax rate to the highest level possible at which the people are happy and population is growing. Rinse and repeat, each turn. It's a pointless task, because there is always a "right" solution, and it's extremely repetitive.

With this system, there is no "right" solution: Most likely you will have happy provinces and unhappy provinces, both of which you'll have to manage. It makes the game more interesting, and there is no one correct solution. Now, to manage your happiness levels, you need to make choices that are actually interesting: What do I build, where do I move my armies, what characters do I recruit? Where there used to be one choice of moving the tax slider up or down, you now have a wealth of gameplay.

I hope this explains our reasoning behind this design decision.

PS: You can still exempt a province from taxes.

The essence of it is removing that optimal solution, making it less about management, and more about having to make a choice.

[karamazovmm]

I don't see a conflict between those 2, I really don't. I saw it before that reasoning I didn't like it

[yutterh]

That reasoning makes no sense what so ever.....It's like they just thought, we hated doing that....like it truly served no benefit to us what so ever....just...cant...comprehend...

[jtfjtfjtf]

I miss this too. At least make it an option.