PUSH THRU bug - not again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Niesmiertelnik]

PAST:
On MTW 2 there was a bug that destroyed competitive gaming of hundreds of players. Dozens of tournaments were fought until group of players has discovered PUSH THRU BUG and published on MP forums how it works.
In short words it was a bug allowing fast enemy destruction and cavalry was able to do so in few seconds just pushing thru any kind of enemy unit. Yes, ANY KIND. Even scottish pikewall was vulnerable to it.

Use of it was pretty simple. Instead of clicking enemy unit to be attacked/charged You just had to click the grass behind it. It was a trick for fastclickers as You had to switch between attacking units fast and every time You had to click behind chosen enemy unit to be destroyed. This sequence had to be repeated once twice during the push thru, after unitsh had contact.

Another name of this bug was "Raised Lances Bug", because cavalry units of player that was using it did not perform full charge with lances down, but had contact with enemy with raised lances - that was a sign for tournament judges, that player has used bug.
One week after this bug was discovered lobby of MTW2 emptied. No more range scale tournaments were organised.

PRESENT DAY:
Two weeks ago came a newborn called RTW2
Multiplayer community was full of expectations about this game in hope that finally CA has learned it's lesson and we ll get playable game.
Then watch this:
http://www.twitch.tv/coreofexistenz/c/2889313
Is player clicking units? NO. Is he clicking grass behind it? YES. Is he doing it several times? YES
Welcome to PTB2

Are You NOT ENTERTAINED????

I am certainly not as for MP community this short movie is a disaster.
This bug will destroy playability of this game and tournaments will be handicaped attracting guys pushing thru each other in two line formations...... bleh
Shame....
CA - wil You do something with it, or You find it OK to see empty lobby?

[perablenta]

It's the engine. Never designed for melee combat...

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Uh that is however not the same thing as the M2TW walkthrough cavalry bug, this is simply a bypass move through the phalanx "force field", it is of course not how it is intended to be, but it doesn't add extra power to the walkthroughing units. The Spartans in the video simply win because the combat get mixed up and the advantage of the pike wall is removed, the one in M2TW was that the cavalry was kept at constant charge bonus.

[Niesmiertelnik]

Uh that is however not the same thing as the M2TW walkthrough cavalry bug, this is simply a bypass move through the phalanx "force field", it is of course not how it is intended to be, but it doesn't add extra power to the walkthroughing units. The Spartans in the video simply win because the combat get mixed up and the advantage of the pike wall is removed, the one in M2TW was that the cavalry was kept at constant charge bonus.

To be honest......do You really believe for what You've just wrote?

They win because of Player forcing them to push thru the pikes without casualties - which should never be present in engine.
Idea of phalanx was:
"Come here smartass so we can stick You"

There was no possibility of magic dance allowing undetected and magical pass from the front to the rear.

I see You just have seen magic possibilities giving You a chance to become great MP Player, but i am affraid You will be taking part of PUSH THRU FEST in tournaments designed to see who's the biggest push thru master....
No tatics, no winging manoeuvres, no cav, no range units. Just homo push thru.... Great entertainment


LOL ....

bypass move through the phalanx "force field"

. ..... and LOL again...

and another one to:

it doesn't add extra power to the walkthroughing units

So what does it give when defending Player has nothing to say here.

[bushranger]

They only people who suffer from push through are people who spread there pikes to thin.

[Dawu]

To say this ruins the playability of this game is utter nonsense. this only works under the conditions presented in the video and utterly fails against other units. Either you haven't played many or haven't tested yourself.

"I see You just have seen magic possibilities giving You a chance to become great MP Player, but i am afraid You will be taking part of PUSH THRU FEST in tournaments designed to see who's the biggest push thru master....
No tactics, no winging manoeuvres, no cav, no range units. Just homo push thru.... Great entertainment"

wow you have really taken a leap here. I believe Galvanized Iron is correct in his post, pushing through doesn't give you 'extra power'. only breaks through the phalanx which is a bug.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Niesmiertelnik what is your issue? I merely pointed out that the this is not the same move as the M2TW one, becuase it isn't same move. As for the rest I pretty much knew of this possibility since it was present in Rome 1 also, with the difference that it wasn't really needed in Rome 1 since Urban Cohorts would beat the phalanxes frontally anyway, regardless this is not a major issue since there are much more cost effective ways to beat phalanx.

So clearly you fail to see what this ability does, it does not provide power, it merely transports units through the pike wall so that the pikemen are forced to fight with swords which they are not very good with obviously. If you used this ability on a non-phalanx unit it would simply result in you getting slaughtered.

And yes force field is a pretty good way to describe what a phalanx normally does to an attacking unit...

[Fanest]

saw this today when Heir of Carthage mentioned it, well, i will have to test it myself, but it really seems like a major bug, cheap tactics

[Niesmiertelnik]

Niesmiertelnik what is your issue? I merely pointed out that the this is not the same move as the M2TW one, becuase it isn't same move. As for the rest I pretty much knew of this possibility since it was present in Rome 1 also, with the difference that it wasn't really needed in Rome 1 since Urban Cohorts would beat the phalanxes frontally anyway, regardless this is not a major issue since there are much more cost effective ways to beat phalanx.

So clearly you fail to see what this ability does, it does not provide power, it merely transports units through the pike wall so that the pikemen are forced to fight with swords which they are not very good with obviously. If you used this ability on a non-phalanx unit it would simply result in you getting slaughtered.

And yes force field is a pretty good way to describe what a phalanx normally does to an attacking unit...

My issue is, that allowing this bug programmers have failed with graphic presentation of what phalanx was, and how was it important on the ancient battlefields.
I do not wonder whether it is the same move as in MTW2 or not.
You give me answer by Yourself and importance of this bug is quite high, but i am surprised that You use Your arguments wrong way

it does not provide power, it merely transports units through the pike wall so that the pikemen are forced to fight with swords which they are not very good with obviously

in short words translation of what You wrote is :" .... it does not provide power.... but it provides ..... power".
Maybe not in category of extra points to the kill probability, but certainly in category of removing from phalanx it's major power.

Definition of phalanx was to make pikewall so no one can come thru. Yes?
Here You just click grass behind, Your unit is dancing "Zumba dance" and magically You pass thru, and phalanx is forced to use it's weaker weapon and break formation (which is bad sign to morale modifiers, as enemy units are winging all of phalanx units).... LOL?

I do not care whether it was or not in RTW1 either, as with it's engine there were so many ways to destroy phalanx, that this homo action was really unnecessary.
Here - with Warscape and it's "bit too much refreshed" battle systems this single bug is far more important then before, but i ll never look at is as for a strategy. It is just a bug and using it should put shame on player involved.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Why are you so aggrevated? You were the one who started by saying that the M2TW bug is back, it is not.

It doesn't provide power as in it doesn't make the attack of the unit more powerful in any way, it rather makes the attack of the enemy weaker. So it subtracts power.

Also I think the term you are looking for is "limbo dance", zumba dance is something different.

There is no reason to use it in R2TW either, I for sure don't and can still beat phalanxes, mainly because using slingers to do it is even more cost effective.

[babyfossil]

the one in M2TW was that the cavalry was kept at constant charge bonus.

because that's not how M2 cav bug works lol. do you even play the game? it is how rome 1 cav bug works

[Niesmiertelnik]

Indeed babyfossil. Perhaps GalvanizedIron hasn't seen it. Dear Sith. I prefere to stay with Zumba dance, as limbo suggests that magical pass could go, while we re talking about an absurd of passing thru dozens of pikes ready to kill the dancer. Zumba dance in front of pikes looks like very same absurd and it makes this comparison looks simply better.

[nilloc93]

oh come on this has been a valid and widely used tactic since MTW2 in every TW game except S2TW, have your pikes stand 10 ranks deep and they won't push through, honestly it only works because you're trying to control a massive chunk of the battlefield with 10 pike units, any force spread that far can be punctured at one of its points, its just force concentration.

[Niesmiertelnik]

oh come on this has been a valid and widely used tactic since MTW2 in every TW game except S2TW, have your pikes stand 10 ranks deep and they won't push through, honestly it only works because you're trying to control a massive chunk of the battlefield with 10 pike units, any force spread that far can be punctured at one of its points, its just force concentration.

Honestly - i just do not know what You re talking about, but it's a forum and everyone has right to present his opinion.
Have You seen the movie?

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

because that's not how M2 cav bug works lol. do you even play the game? it is how rome 1 cav bug works

I didn't play much M2TW MP, that is correct, the lagg killed it for me, but I heard about this bug.

I did however play a ton of RTW MP and the RTW "bug" you are referring to is actually a feauture and it is not a push through, it is an intended effect of using the wedge charge on a unit beyond your target.

[babyfossil]

I didn't play much M2TW MP, that is correct, the lagg killed it for me, but I heard about this bug.

I did however play a ton of RTW MP and the RTW "bug" you are referring to is actually a feauture and it is not a push through, it is an intended effect of using the wedge charge on a unit beyond your target.

Dude, it's require another enemy unit for it to work. If it a single unit u charging then it doesn't work. How the hell u think it intended?

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Dude, it's require another enemy unit for it to work. If it a single unit u charging then it doesn't work. How the hell u think it intended?

"it is an intended effect of using the wedge charge on a unit beyond your target"

Perhaps you need to learn how to read? It clearly says in my text that it requires another unit on the other side of the unit you want to destroy. So read before you post.

Of course it is intended, otherwise it would not have been included in every Total War game since then.

[babyfossil]

The wedge formation been in the game since ages and in nowhere does it work like RTW1. It require special condition and manipulation on the players. Yeah..it's intended

[babyfossil]

Since i can't edit:

If it's intended (lol). could you please show people how to do it? or do you still keep it as a secret among clans. You just twisting it around for your own convenience use

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

What? You apperently already know how to do it so why you want me to show it? And yes it works in all the recent games too, it is of course not an exact replica since mass, animations, engine etc is different now, but it is still there and will probably always still be there. Why should clans tell the public about all our secrets? Knowledge is power so it must be hidden well.

Also debating the RTW cavalry bug, which isn't a bug, is not related to topic really.