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Thread: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Another in a long list of things that Rome II is out done by its predecessor.

  2. #22
    Efix's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    After Simcity, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2, Dead Space 2 .......... Rome II

  3. #23
    Raimeken's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Yeah, the way pike units are portrayed in Rome 2 is probably one of the biggest deal breakers right now. Simply put, there is NO REASON to use pikemen in the game's current state. In RTW, Pikemen were huge units of 240 men that were impenetrable from the front and super vulnerable outside of phalanx. In Rome 2, the pike phalanx is basically a joke, infantry just walk past the sarissas like it was easy to traverse through a wall of pointy spears, and aside from the pike phalanx, pikemen are literally mob level in terms of stats. They suck defensively and they are even worse when you take them out of pike phalanx, even Foot Companions or Hellenic Royal Guard, which should reflect a shift in heavier armor and secondary weaponry, fail to do anything to units like Hoplites and Legionaries.

    Whats the point of Macedon, Egypt, and soon the Seleucid Empire if you can basically win the game with armies of Hoplites in the early game, they are cheaper, tankier, and have much more offensive capability than pikemen. This was technically the same in Rome, but because of the fact that the phalanx literally put the enemy unit at a distance made all the difference.

    CA if you're watching, make the pike phalanx keep units at a distance, and do not let infantry units mingle in the no mans land that is the pike wall.

  4. #24
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    The phalanx formation in Rome I worked perfectly fine to me after mods. Both sarissas phalanx and hoplites was awesome back there, fighting as it should. Lets hope that modders can correct it again, but I dont think we will see they marching with their sarissas in hand when outside the phalanx formation...

    Also remember that Rome 1 at it launchs had no true hoplite unit. Or they are like regular spearman or macedonian like phalanx. Modders who made they hold their spears overhand, put them in a closer formation and added the shield wall option. The really did a miracle back there.
    Last edited by VektorT; September 08, 2013 at 10:58 PM.

  5. #25
    big_feef's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Wanna know how bad this is? Playing as the Parthians and I pretty much destroy everything with my Eastern Cataphracts. I've been doing frontal charges on pikemen/hoplites in phalanx all campaign with them and you know what happens? The fly back when my cavalry charge hits them... they fly back! In the original Rome, that would have basically been suicide for my very expensive cataphracts.
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools" - Thucydides



  6. #26

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    It probably also has to do with the 'only three ranks actually engage' thing. Because of that, there's no defense if a unit gets 'up close' to a pike wall. All of the points are a good 6 feet away from the shield wall, so there's nobody to attack guys who get close in, unfortunately.

    This is another thing I don't think CA's going to fix. Pikes will probably remain useless until a modder figures out how to reimpliment the 'wall' effect of Rome I.
    The above post is in a pre-alpha state and does not nessecarily reflect the final writings of the poster. As such the poster cannot be held responsible for any statements made in this post.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrobras View Post
    Yeah... is awful...

    Even in the previous Rome they carry the pikes when not in phalanx and it only dissapear, due technical limitations, when engaged in close combat melee. Also it simple bizarre how fast they enter and quit the phalanx formation... kill a great part of the immersion, yes. I remember how cool it was to see the phalanx marching with the pikes pointing at the sky...

    It would be awesome if the had to drop the sarrisas to engage in close combat melee and could take it back later. Just like horsemans can do with their horses.
    Totally agree, a real shame they have removed this feature. I loved the sight of Phalanxes marching into battle with their pikes held aloft, before lowering them down to engage the enemy - It's one of the main reasons I loved playing the Hellenistic factions in the original Rome. It seems odd that something so small and inconsequential could ruin the immersion but it does. A real shame as in Shogun II I loved the animation and stances of pike wielding infantry like the Yari Ashigaru Long Spears when they were not engaged in battle.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doe3000 View Post
    Totally agree, a real shame they have removed this feature. I loved the sight of Phalanxes marching into battle with their pikes held aloft, before lowering them down to engage the enemy - It's one of the main reasons I loved playing the Hellenistic factions in the original Rome. It seems odd that something so small and inconsequential could ruin the immersion but it does. A real shame as in Shogun II I loved the animation and stances of pike wielding infantry like the Yari Ashigaru Long Spears when they were not engaged in battle.
    Since units can run in phalanx formation now, you can still watch them march into battle with pikes held aloft...or extended. It's kind of funny watching the front ranks jogging along with their pikes held out in front of them.
    The above post is in a pre-alpha state and does not nessecarily reflect the final writings of the poster. As such the poster cannot be held responsible for any statements made in this post.

  9. #29
    Kinjo's Avatar Taiko
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    How do we know this is a design choice, was it confirmed by one of the devs?

    Maybe it was just a huge oversite? .. I hope

  10. #30
    Geuvesa's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    I prefer the Sarissas to disappear entirely than in shogun where they slung the Yari on their back, a cool feature I have found is when they switch to their alternative weapon the shield slides off the forearm/elbow into their hand.
    So far my only problem with the Phalanx is how quickly enemies can run through it, if they are not charging to engage but instead the computer decides to run past them (like it does in sieges) a couple of them will die from hit detection, however, the rest will run past the pikes into the formation. This is highly annoying to me since I am a Macedonian style Phalanx fanboy of sorts.

  11. #31
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjo View Post
    How do we know this is a design choice, was it confirmed by one of the devs?

    Maybe it was just a huge oversite? .. I hope
    I would be so happy if CA releases the next patch with a "Du'uh! We forgot the walking stance from pikes! Sorry, here is it."

  12. #32

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    As far as aesthetics go this is one of th more important features I am missing from the game. I loved watching Phalanxes march, I love the Battle of Gaugamela in Alexander just because of the Phalanx units :-)

    I loved playing EB for RTW.

    Cheers,

    Lance

  13. #33

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    I really hope this was a mistake as well, as that means CA will fix it. While it isn't small to me, it's the little things like these that make the game a lot more "alive", as its current state feels a little robotic.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    I agree, itīs one of the countless little things (among the countless big things) that combine to make Rome 2 a very disappointing entry in the series, in my view. Thereīs so much stuff to fix Iīm beginning to doubt it will all be patched before CA moves on to their next title.On the subject of pikemen, animations exist for soldiers wielding the sarissa aloft, when running in phalanx formation or when ordering your pikemen in phalanx formation during the deployment phase.I think them wielding their sidearm outside of a phalanx is a design choice, some sort of quick lazy fix to problematic unit behaviour, just a hunch.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrobras View Post
    Yeah... is awful...It would be awesome if the had to drop the sarrisas to engage in close combat melee and could take it back later. Just like horsemans can do with their horses.
    This^^^. I was wondering the exact same thing. They have the mechanic in the game to do it, why wouldn't they utilize it? Instead they were too busy making buttons for stupid ass super powers that shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Phalanx in rome 1 was better!

  17. #37
    Kinjo's Avatar Taiko
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Yari wall in Shogun 2 were better imo.

    Pikes should be the default weapon for pike units and the Ai should try to maintain a phalanx instead of trying to run around the flanks and use them as swordsmen.

  18. #38
    Kinjo's Avatar Taiko
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    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    dp ... ugh damn forum
    Last edited by Kinjo; September 09, 2013 at 06:28 PM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    I wouldn't say it's awful, but it is one more thing we can pile up on the disappointment we call Total War: ROME II.

    I do prefer either the way pike units in ETW were done: they drew a sword but held onto the pike as they fought.

    That or you make an animation for them to drop the pikes and draw swords, not suddenly transform into a swordsman. Even the dropped pikes could fall to the ground and disappear within like 4 seconds.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Pikemen don't carry pikes, unless they are in Phalanx formation?

    Hey guys, if anyone has Warscape experience, and wants to help make this happen, I created a thread in the modding workshop, just click here.

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