Racist Ethnic Stereotypes In Rome 2 And Not Realistic Historically

[Decius101]

Anyone notice that all the Barbarian factions seem to have huge muscular men? All the Roman units and Greek units have shorter skinnier men. This is not realistic at all! Also, it seems that most of the Roman/Greek units have hair loss problems or are bald.

I have not played Rome 2 yet but do the Romans look shorter than the Barbarian units on the battlefield? Not counting the Beserkers who would probably be taller.

http://www.gameranx.com/img/13-Feb/t...ni-faction.jpg

Look how huge and muscular they are while all the Roman units look skinny. I doubt that in this time all the Barbarian men were huge and muscular, infact the Roman Soldiers would have been bigger if you read this.

http://www.geocities.ws/racial_reality/romans.html

Romans had a heavy build. Don't see many statues with hairloss issues in those pictures either. Roman Legions also placed emphasis on how large a man is for recruiting, you also had to be at least 5'10 to join the Legion, this was after the Marian Reforms. They still placed more emphasis on the size of a man than height but not many short men are huge so I doubt there were any men shorter than 5'8 in the Roman Legion. The Marian reforms were in 107 BC and the Empire had regions mostly in Southern Europe and parts of Southern France so these reforms were not because taller conquered barbarian men could now join the legions, the height requirement was not because of them.

I went through a lot of archeological data concerning the height of ancient european men and I concluded that it is this.

Roman (Italy only): 5'5-5'7 on average, average heights would vary between 5'5-5'7 depending on the city. The average height in Pompeii for men was 5'5 but it was a poor lower class city.

Celtic: 5'7-5'9 depending on the settlement.

Germanic:5'8-5'10 depending on the settlement. All Barbarians lived in little primitive hut villages/towns anyway with wooden buildings and straw huts. All they ever used for Architecture was wood because they didn't know how to build anything else.

[GreatSword]

Roman Legions also placed emphasis on how large a man is for recruiting, you also had to be at least 5'10 to join the Legion, this was after the Marian Reforms. They still placed more emphasis on the size of a man than height but not many short men are huge so I doubt there were any men shorter than 5'8 in the Roman Legion. The Marian reforms were in 107 BC and the Empire had regions mostly in Southern Europe and parts of Southern France so these reforms were not because taller conquered barbarian men could now join the legions, the height requirement was not because of them.
.

No, that's completely fabricated...

[ChairmanCrassus]

The way it should be: Barbarians tall and somewhat fat; Romans short and stocky; Greeks tall and slender...

[Irenicus]

Yeah, I'm so offended that people call me muscular, skinnier or shorter than average.

[Captain W. Handberg]

Stereotypes are used for a reason, to make people feel familiar with what they see.

[ImperatorGregus]

Well, if we follow your statement, Why do not talk about this ridiculous eastern and egyptian accent ? That's not really racism, that's more cliché and stereotypes, who where already there in the first Rome.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

That was lulzy. From the OP:

I have not played Rome 2

and

Check out this cheap-azzed geocities info

. Aside the fact that, well, the OP is just wrong, and that ancient historians and memoirs documented the imposing height of Gauls and Germans, the icing on the cake is the thread title 'Datz Razizt!'. Are we in the Twilight Zone?? Before release, many people, including myself, had legitimate concerns, and were called whiners and insulted, and now the new whiners are going from the profane to the absurd.

[Decius101]

No, that's completely fabricated...

This is not fabricated, I read it in official history books at my university, academic sources. Some Roman writer wrote this himself, I think that historian Tacitus did but it may have been someone else. It is not fabricated.

[Duncan III]

I am incredibly handsome, tall and muscular and I resent being judged 'barbarian' on this basis.

[BATTERIES]

All Barbarians lived in little primitive hut villages/towns anyway with wooden buildings and straw huts. All they ever used for Architecture was wood because they didn't know how to build anything else.

Yes little primitive barbarians with their lack of brain power, seems like you are suggesting they are inferior. In a thread where you complain of stereotypes.... edit/delete your post before you embarrass yourself further.

[ImperatorGregus]

Well, if we follow your statement, Why do not talk about this ridiculous eastern and egyptian accent ? That's not really racism, that's more cliché and stereotypes, who where already there in the first Rome.

[Donkeycow]

Just about everything you said is a lie. There was no requirement to be 5'10'' tall to join the legion, Pompeii was quite a wealthy city not poor at all, it was a region where wealthy Romans had holiday villas and to say "barbarians" could not use anything other then wood is also wrong. No they were not great monument builders but it isn't that difficult to use simple stone construction.

[Irenicus]

Well, if we follow your statement, Why do not talk about this ridiculous eastern and egyptian accent ? That's not really racism, that's more cliché and stereotypes, who where already there in the first Rome.

Now if only they would patch/DLC native languages for each culture.

I liked when in Shogun soldiers spoke japanese.

[DanMLee88]

'Anti-racist' OP states they all lived in 'little primitive huts' and 'all they knew how to build etc etc' when it's made clear even in roman sources that germanics and gauls and celts were simply different cultural martial society, not necessarily worse or better.

Actually, it's a fact that ethincally speaking Romans were shorter than gauls and germanics. Not to mention those picked for warfare against rome were by necessity some of the best the tribes had to offer.

If you want to play that dumb a game squealing 'racist', I suggest you take that attitude off first. Are we to complain about 'racism' every time romans refer to others as 'barbarians' and 'effete greeks'? How old the f are you anyway?

[Lavrentivs]

Where are you getting these numbers from?

I'll try to find the reference, but it was found that the average height of the inhabitants of Pompeii was higher than that of modern Napolitans. The soldier found in Pompeii measured 1m 70cm/ 5ft 7". 4th Century Roman soldier remains measure about 1m 65cm (R. Cowan).


Its not that they are barbarians, its usually the elite units in Rome 2 that are massive. The Spartans have very large hoplites too.


The fact that you equate the size of units in a game with racism is also, frankly, quite laughable.

[lollaaja]

Mediterranean men have a tendency for getting a bald spot on the crown. I think that's the way it is in the game, too Anyway, as far as racial mischaracterizations go, one faction gets a public order bonus from having several cultures. The bonus is called 'multiculturalism' and is on the face of it ridiculous as we can see today with our very own eyes (we don't need to conjecturize what-ifs). The Greeks also look like Arabs and there are Sub-Saharan blacks in North Africa. It would have been nice to see some racial history and not have typical modern multicult propaganda, but I guess you can't have everything.

[GreatSword]

This is not fabricated, I read it in official history books at my university, academic sources. Some Roman writer wrote this himself, I think that historian Tacitus did but it may have been someone else. It is not fabricated.

Yes what you posted was incorrect and not needed on this forum. I know what Tacitus wrote, here it is "Physical Characteristics. For my own part, I agree with those who think that the tribes of Germany are free from all taint of intermarriages with foreign nations, and that they appear as a distinct, unmixed race, like none but themselves. Hence, too, the same physical peculiarities throughout so vast a population. All have fierce blue eyes, red hair, huge frames, fit only for a sudden exertion. They are less able to bear laborious work. Heat and thirst they cannot in the least endure; to cold and hunger their climate and their soil inure them. " Its a game, relax

[DanMLee88]

Apparently anyone not b ching about how multiculturalism is a utopia without addressing how respect and dignity is a two way street is labeled as 'ignorant'. It's very amusing considering these types of people are so easily manipulated and swayed to chase after anything that smells like a small advantage.

Let's address the Racist Ethnic Stereotypes applied to 'barbarians' first. Then we can 'talk' about some bch topic like the one OP brought up that clearly has inferior motives other than fairness.

Let me ask this: In my culture, it is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged to impose and conduct violence upon other ethnicities, especially those of darker skin tone, in the name of 'cultural hegemony' and 'fidelity'. Why u no accept my culture and bend over?

[Decius101]

With Sources.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/r.../RomanArmy.htm

It says 5'10 with emphasis placed more on size than height. I doubt their were any Legionaries shorter than 5'7. I remember seeing archeological data that showed Germanic men were 5'8 on average during this time. Over all I would say most of them were 5'8-5'9 on average and Roman men were 5'6-5'7 on average. They were not much taller.

[Hoplite2002]

People use the word racism too lightly (perhaps because they don't really know what it means.) The game isn't discriminating anyone and if there isn't discrimination, it isn't racism. Stereotypes? Yes. But that was never a racist problem. Should I feel offended because people confuse Spaniards with Mexicans and say we wear pointy sombrero hats in the Peninsula? Nope.