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Thread: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

  1. #1

    Default Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    [Edit] changed the diplomacy section to show its not as bad as it first appeared.

    I posted this on the official TW forums the other day(http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...on-of-Shogun-2. ) I hope no one mind me posting it here too.
    I admit the screenshots and writing could be better, but i wanted to get my thoughts down.

    In my opinion the Shogun 2 interface, menus and display of information is far superior to Rome 2's, that i have to wonder why CA decided to change it so much.

    I'm sure i've missed a lot, and its hard to describe without good screenshots, so if someone wants to make a better post or thead, then go for it.

    Also LETS KEEP THIS FLAME FREE please. I have tried to be constructive in my criticism and so should you.

    First lets talk about the City management.
    I actually don't mind this change, especially as it needed to change due to the province system. I can see what buildings are in each settlement and i can see the culture, income, effects and public order easily too (though more detailed when moused over).
    For a more detailed look of the province though i do need to click another button.

    The building card art style i have actually gotten used to and kinda like.
    Though there was nothing wrong with Shoguns style either.




    First major problem, characters :Generals, Spies, Champions and Dignitaries.

    In Shogun 2 i could right-click any character and it would open up a nice sized detail screen with my characters XP, traits, skills, and skill tree so i could plan out my characters progression. It also had all the characters effects in a easy read column.

    In Rome 2 i have to select the character then i have to click the details button to open up a small box with the characters XP, traits and skills.
    To find the skill tree you have to right-click the characters portrait (unless its a general) or click the ? button to be taken to the encyclopedia where the skill trees are hidden away, making planning out your character a pain compared to Shogun 2.
    The characters effects are then also only shown if you mouse over the effects part of their portrait in the bottom right of the screen.





    Why they decided that this little box and harder to get to skill tree was a good idea I dont know.

    Technology Tree.

    While it isn't that bad, it is still crammed into that little box at the bottom of the screen. Its also not that easy to see what you have actually selected.

    Compare that to Shoguns tech tree which was almost full screen and you could easily see and plan out what you wanted.




    Finance and Trade screen.

    Again the put all the info you want into the tiny little box at the bottom middle of the screen. You can barely see the grey trade icons on the grey background also.

    Again Shogun 2's Finance and Trade screen was far superior. Not only was it larger which meant less scrolling, it was easier to read.




    Diplomacy screen:

    You have a massive map area then again that little box appears where you have only 4 factions appear and you have to scroll like a madman through the rest of them.

    Once you decide to ignore the small area at the bottom and start clicking the faction icons on the map instead to select faction while hovering the mouse over them for diplomacy info, the whole diplomacy screen seems to work a whole lot better.

    Though an easier way to see who is trading with who on this diplomacy map (like Shogun had) would be a big plus too.

    Also of the scrolling area showed the factions religion like shoguns did would be an improvement too.
    I do think the visual style of Shoguns diplomacy screen was better though.





    Unit recruitment i have no problem with other than the unit cards are too large and i miss the actual unit numbers (90/120) rather than the green health bar.

    Battle Screen:
    Oh boy.

    First already mentioned Unit card are too big. Especially when you have a large army and the cards are stacked on top of each other.
    The unit cards are too "busy". In the middle of the unit card you have the firing, being fired on, walking, running, melee indicators. Thing is the are too large and get in the way of actually distinguishing what the unit card represents.

    Shogun 2 imo had this spot on where the indicators where at the top just above the unit card and colour coded (red arrows for being fired upon etc).

    CA This is just horrid, who thought it was a good idea to have large unit cards and its background take up this huge area of space:




    Also missing is the actual unit size numbers over the green health bar. I find it more informative to know the actual size of a unit left (90/120) instead of the vagueness of a half filled green bar.

    Bottom left of the battle screen it shows either a portrait of the unit captain (why?) or the unit card stats and info. At first this seems fine until you compare it to Shogun 2.

    In Shogun when you moused over a unit card, its details popped up and then nicely disappeared when you moved you mouse off the unit card. In Rome 2 it just stays there taking valuable room. It would have been better to keep the Shogun style and move it above the minimap imo.

    The units and generals activated abilities are then on the bottom of the screen blending in with the formation/move buttons where in Shogun they appeared above the unit cards on the left in a far more easily viewed area.

    The lack of a move forward, back and rotate button was at first annoying, but i have gotten used to using control and the new drag-drop method.




    I dont know if the UI team changed from Shogun 2 or what, but something drastic happened and it wasnt good.

    End of battle report screen.

    Now you have to mouse over the unit cards after the battle to see how many they killed etc. And i dont think you can see if they gained XP ?

    Whereas in Shogun 2 you had the lovely full screen report with columns showing the units kills, losses, XP etc.
    Last edited by Siven; September 06, 2013 at 08:19 PM. Reason: formatting

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Totally agree on that, it could really use a lot more info like S2 did.
    「戦場廻り、運命決まり、生死しらない」

  3. #3

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    For the diplomacy screen, I actually like it better than Shogun 2's. You don't have to scroll, just click on the icons on the map itself. Of course a bigger scroll box is better, but since you can click direct on the map...
    Anyway, I feel the diplomacy screen here is as good as Empire's (I prefer Empire's to Shogun 2).


  4. #4

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Yep...except for the diplomacy screen I share your opinion.
    Prof's Mods (Attila Mods)
    Creator of Polemarchia: Total War
    Under the patronace of Epistolary Richard
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I agree on every point except the diplomacy comments. You can click the map to select nations to have diplomatic discussions with. You don't have to touch the menu at all. Which is great. A huge improvement over past titles where you have to click on each faction to see who they are in relation to you on the map if you are not familiar with their names.

  6. #6
    apo_hd's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I agree 100%... hoping for mods soon, or I'll die...
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    You know mods won't solve the UI issues...


  8. #8

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Good points about the diplomacy screen. I have just added that to the post.Though i would like it to show who factions are trading with in the diplomacy screen like shogun 2 had also. I didnt notice anything like that other than the icon in the small scrollable box.Edit: gosh these forums are terribly slow! (and has trouble formatting posts!)
    Last edited by Siven; September 06, 2013 at 07:05 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I also like the option to select factions on map of the diplomacy screen (instead of scrolling through the menu, that was a pita in SHogun2), but for all other points, the OP is right IMO.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    TW is the one game franchise where minimalism doesn't work very well and this game is a testament to that.
    Last edited by Neige; September 06, 2013 at 07:09 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I agree with you dude. Shogun 2's interface was fantastic.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Great post, well illustrated. I completely agree that the UI has been downgraded - it's like they're changing it for the sake of changing it, and it's only got worse.

  13. #13
    Greve Af Göteborg's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I agree on all the points that you brought up. I would also like to see a faster wiki, there's currently a short delay whenever you change the page (it really feels like I'm using internet explorer). They need to overhaul the UI, badly.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    I don't have any problem with the rome 2 units cards. However, I completly agree on the UI. Shogun 2 was sooo much clear and easy to use, not that rome 2 UI it's complicated, it's just really bad designed.

  15. #15
    Faris ad Din's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Agreed. Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes. I'm having a bewildering time trying to glean the information I need from the inaccessible UI. Everything is in hard-to-read black and dark tones. All the information is crammed into a tiny little window and in an unintuitive manner. For me, the biggest peeve is these horrid tiny icons that most of all use black as a principal color. The Shogun 2 icons, although a product of creative artwork, used a lovely array of color and were CLEAR and instantly recognizable. Having a world of just two colors is tantamount to being colorblind - why must bichromatic colorblindness be enforced upon us, CA? I'm still having a vile time trying to see which unit card is what and assess my army at a glance. This wouldn't be such an issue if I didn't have to do a whole number of glances in every battle and every turn, hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands of times over.

    Something I observed is that when someone is trying to access any visual source of information - a street sign, a chart in an office, tellingly, is that people often don't rely on most of the minor details or features on an icon or symbol or picture when trying to refer to them at a glance. In the eye-mind connection, all that's really absorbed is, in effect, is a BLURRY basic reduction of what they see. In street signs, for example - most people don't read the "Stop" on a Stop sign, but they see the red octagon, or in certain No Parking signs (leastwise here in New York City), they just see a red rectangle. In games like Shogun 2, we get basic signs like a raised, diagonally-positioned sword for the Katana Samurai, or the White headwrap for monk units, or Big Red Armor for Takeda Fire Cavalry. I even observe different shades of orange for the armor of Bow Samurai and Naginata Samurai. When it comes to the Roman unit cards most of all, between the legionaries in the examples of the OP and the velites, I see... red blob of shield on the left and black blob of twisty thing on the right. In the case of the velites, I see red blob for tunic uniform on the left and black blob of shield on the right. I'm basically seeing at an initial glance red and black blobs. It's shapes and arrangement and color which deliver functional and subconscious-level information, while details and features deliver prettiness and eye-pleasing quality.

    I'm not trying to flame the game. These are among my only complaints about the game, and what I am not voicing here are all the features that I am awestruck by. Most of the artwork is AMAZING. The music is phenomenal and creates an entrancing atmosphere. I love the flow of the battles overall - they're fundamentally just about right to my liking. There's a jaw-dropping number of features implemented - amphibious invasions of fleets aiding armies on land, realistic crumbling of buildings, inter-family intrigue - jumping Jupiter! I would only like to see the game be the best it can, because that's what I believe it is already - just about the best out there, when it comes to turn-based campaign and real time strategy. I have a feeling CA had their eyes on other possible competitors out in the field and Civilization 5 comes to mind. They outdid themselves, I believe. I still believe there's time to make some amends at least when it comes to the unit cards and in-Encyclopedia artwork. I'll have only more praises to lavish upon the Creative Assembly and their proud creation!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    and oh yeah, my pet peeve, where's auto-save before battle? So i don't have to end the whole bloody turn again if the game decides to crash.
    「戦場廻り、運命決まり、生死しらない」

  17. #17

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    +1 on everything except for the diplomacy screen where I agree with the everybody else.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    Totally agree!

    What a huge let down with Rome II. Good lord how could they do that such a thing. Looking the Shogun II and i see a perfection, clarity and decent information there. Not click this and next window and click that of Rome II' terrible UI. I can't find a proper word instead terrible. I really mean it.

    Just look at the character development, diplomacy, city management, battle UI. Brilliant job there brilliant!

    Thank you a lot for the screens and comparisons and especially bringing those to the table OP.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    You forgot that there are double layer for unit cards which takes too much space... Almost 1/3 of screen and the unit numbers on cards itself...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Rome 2 Interface is uninformative and a downgrade on the near perfection of Shogun 2.

    +1 on everything except for the diplomacy screen where I agree with the everybody else.

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