Evil factions too difficult?

[SizarieldoR]

I've only played Mordor but I feel they are underpowered. For the first 50 turns it feels like a 3rd rate power (H/H diff), because there is almost no infrastructure or industry. I tried "roleplaying" and building up, with trolls and everything before I set out to conquer, but because of the map size it is hard to react and defend against Gondor/Rohan. Furthermore, the economy simply cannot support enough orcs to defend the borders with.

I read some threads that advise to blitz Gondor, but this implies that I won't have the chance to replay RotK under the current balance (not without cheats)

[LuckyPistol]

Its near impossible to turtle as Mordor unless Harad gets lucky against Gondor. And I mean REALLY lucky. You can always take the South Ithilien settlements to boost some extra cash, as Gondor rarely goes after them. Since there's so many different Mordor guides on the forums, I can't recommend just ONE way to play. Mordor is tricky, but once you get started with mass producing orcs, things get easier. Plus, you have 3 of the easiest fortress to defend. The only universal Mordor advice is to use the Nazgul, namely the WK to route units during a battle.

Its odd that Rohan is giving you trouble, usually the just want the village in the Dead Marshes

Universal Mordor advice I've gathered:

Build economic buildings FIRST. Roads, farms, markets in that order. Gondor will go after Cair Andros and Faramir's little fortress in northern Ithilien.

You could take West Osgiliath for the money boost and then destroy all the buildings before Gondor takes it back

Orc Raiders are better than Orc Band, but keep a unit or two of Orc Band in case of enemy cavalry

If playing MOS, Orc Scouts (tier 1 archers) are fodder, and not much more

Helping Harad will help you


I'm surprised the subject of "evil factions too hard" is Isengard and Mordor instead of the Northern Orcs

[sdf_logan]

I think Isengard is the hardest faction to play, because you have to destroy a powerful faction while you have a few territories and some weak troops. Unless you are on mid game and you have powerful troops, you can't do much against Rohan.

[LuckyPistol]

I think Isengard is the hardest faction to play, because you have to destroy a powerful faction while you have a few territories and some weak troops. Unless you are on mid game and you have powerful troops, you can't do much against Rohan.

The Orcs of the Misty Mountains would like to have a talk with you But not only does Isengard have to face Rohan, but Gondor, usually when they reach their peak, not to mention Eriador and the High Elves. While MOS lets Dunland take care of them, the elves of Lorien are an aggressive replacement for the Silvan Elves who in my experience kept to OotMM and Mordor in Vanilla

[sanderman2]

Orcs of the Mountains are the hardest to play with on VH/VH.
Just getting your ass whooped by lots of archers from the silvans and high elves.
And when you think that is over , there will be some dwarves at the doors who just use my Goblins as toys.

[sdf_logan]

And in the other side, i see Harad as the easiest faction to play. You are in a corner in the Middle Earth and you only have to focus Gondor while he is focusing Mordor haha (AND YOU HAVE THE POWER OF THE HOLY MUMAKILS)

[AqD]

Because northern Orcs are totally garbage before they get trolls.

I killed them in 20 turns with a few elven archers.

[LuckyPistol]

Harad is NOT the easiest faction, especially since the "certain settlement Gondor wants" technique isn't a 100% guarantee. I'd put Harad beneath any elven faction and Rohan, so maybe 4th easiest. There's also the fact that you have to stay in the Dark Lord's favor unless you want to be sodomized by Rhun and Mordor. Gundabad is far from garbage concerning their circumstances despite their lack of skirmishers. They have ONE elven threat, albeit it IS Rivendell Dwarves don't get aggressive until well after turn 40, and you start with a unit of trolls that greatly affects your early game up to barracks event. Misty Mountain orcs are horde incarnate, and most people aren't used to it.

[Redgrave]

Funnily enough, I actually find Gondor to be the 'easiest' faction to play as. I haven't ever had trouble with any evil factions, though; perhaps it's just the way I play.

[LuckyPistol]

Gondor is basically the Rome of TATW Only troubling if you turtle. What evil factions have you played as, they are much much different from each other.

[Razdaz]

Hi guys, first time here and just recently started playing TA.

Firstly, fantastic job to the devs on this for both the scope and design and for making it free.
Second, I've been playing Isengard on h/h (my favorite LotR faction), I'm about 140 turns in on the DaC mod and I'm having trouble understanding what advantages Isengard has over other factions particularly Mordor. Mordor seems to have uruks that have the same stats as mine. Berserkers and xbow are obviously strong units but they pale in comparison to trolls.

In my game, evil factions have totally dominated nearly all land. Only a few settlements remain for Dwarves, Dale, Gondor and Eriador with Mordor having 40+ territories compared to my 30. The rest of evil factions have around 20-30 settlements. I've expanded as far as Edoras east and currently expanding south into Anfalas (gondor territory) while expanding northwards into High Elves and a few Eriador settlements. Only at war currently with Eriador. All other good factions wiped out. My main question is, how the hell do I take on Mordor? They have a monstrous army that seems to be infinite. I can just manage 4-5 high tier stacked armies without going broke. I have trade rights with every faction besides Eriador.

[Razdaz]

Sorry, around 170 turns. I'm a slow player

[LuckyPistol]

I would ask this question in the DnC submod, as I do not know if there units for each faction have changed at all. But general Isengard advice against Mordor is to use those crossbows to the maximum advantage. Spread a thin line of snaga for your front line and spray your crossbows into the enemy orcs. Plus, you have wargs, mordor has a maximum of 9 cavalry units, though they ARE the Nazgul. I would recommend stocking on Wargs and crossbow since generally your infantry are the same. Always try to take on a Nazgul during a siege battle. Mordor is the real challenge of the game, its just stack after stack

[AqD]

Berserkers can take down trolls I thik. Or one of a few units (aside from barding men / ap halbard) who can. I used Crossbowmen as primary rather than missile units - give as many of point-blank shots as possible before melee.

It's easy to purchase entire Mordor because their castles have no economic value and they're quite poor. I bought off entire Mordor and left them useless villages in the north - price is right until they're down to like 5 regions, so you would also need to give them some of your own. Don't try to kill them early because their hostile horde would become a very serious issue and difficult to deal with.

[LuckyPistol]

Berserkers can take down trolls I thik. Or one of a few units (aside from barding men / ap halbard) who can. I used Crossbowmen as primary rather than missile units - give as many of point-blank shots as possible before melee.

It's easy to purchase entire Mordor because their castles have no economic value and they're quite poor. I bought off entire Mordor and left them useless villages in the north - price is right until they're down to like 5 regions, so you would also need to give them some of your own. Don't try to kill them early because their hostile horde would become a very serious issue and difficult to deal with.

Real Estate: Total War

[k/t]

"and for making it free." They can't legally charge for it.

[Mr. ZAP]

I love playing as Isengard but I keep failing in my campaigns as them. I think the issue is I'm just having a really hard time thinking in terms of "there are expendable units". My battle style focuses on wiping out as many enemies while losing as few as I can of my own. I don't like thinking in terms of "using this unit as fodder". If I see a unit being slaughtered I'm screaming in my head "Save them! Save those Snaga! Reavers, charge!" This works great when playing as Elves and Gondor, but it definitely seems to be a handicap for the evil factions. I'm also worried about this because I kind of want to try out the Misty Mountains orcs just for something different, but don't know if I'll be able to get past the fact that the only advantage they seem to have is vast numbers. I don't like seeing my units die. The concept of a "horde" faction is annoying to play as.

[LuckyPistol]

Horde faction isn't for everyone, and it took me some getting used to. I would actually suggest playing as Mordor to get a good feel for the horde factions. As Mordor, you have your trump card nazguls for the beginning of the game and you can produce enough units to just not care if they die They're not up to par with what Gondor fields, though your Orc Maulers can be useful in a flanking charge. Mordor has a nice defense system, is surprisingly more equipped than Isengard early on to combat Rohan, and you can even mass produce all your top tier units, save for trolls.

Isengard isn't the best horde faction to start out as, in fact Mordor OR Gundabad would be better. I have a personal preference to Gundabad, but some people find the dwarves harder to face than Gondor.

[Mr. ZAP]

I can understand that. I mainly keep trying Isengard because they have one of my favorite unit rosters in the game, especially for the evil factions. Love Uruk-hai. Trolls might be powerful, but they don't really excite my fancy as much. All of the Orc Maulers and Raiders and so on seem kind of bland to me. Misty Mountains at least have an interesting location, and I like the prospect of getting a Balrog at some point as well. Harad seems like it has interesting units, but I don't care for the starting position at all. It's like Russia in M2 vanilla; I would love playing as them if they weren't so spread out. Seems to me like it would be a constant logistical annoyance.

[AqD]

I confirmed that Berserkers can deal with Trolls (even Olog-hai) easily. One unit of berserkers >>> one unit of Olog-hai.