Titanium - Faction Preview

[soviet920]

First of all thanks for working in this mod, it seems fantastic!!
I'm from catalonia and this idea of combine Leon-Castille and Aragon in one faction is sad for me
I consider that Kingdom of Aragon had very importance in this years for be a alone faction
Now days what you will do with this?
Thanks!! and sorry for my bad english

I'm from Castille and I agree it's quite sad Aragon would be left out, especially since it was much more important a faction at that time than many others in Europe.

Has anyone heard of the story of the kick-ass almogavars? The fact that the King of Aragon was pretty much king of the Mediterranean sea? he owned Sicily and in this background is when the actual mafia came to being.

On top of that, making Aragon a dull bunch of rebel punks wouldn't be historically great, since the Reconquista was one of the major events at that time, the prelude of the Spanish Empire that would come afterwards.

I'm just lobbying for Aragón spanish motherf.....just as castilians are

[Deteriorate]

Just thinking out loud here about a possible faction;
I noticed the Zirids occupying the Tunisian Coastline at 1100,

Although being a short-lived Dynasty, an exceptional leader could have easily turned it into an empire.. after all that is where the Fatimids had their capital in 909 before they conquered Egypt and left the Zirids in charge. It would be cool to have a medieval "Carthage" and I wonder if having a capital city so close to Sicily end up with more (or any) AI Islamic naval invasions of Italy.

Short description of their state around 1100 (their decline)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Zirids were SanhajaBerbers originating from the area of modern Algeria. In the 10th century this tribe served as vassals of the Fatimids, defeating the Kharijite rebellion of Abu Yazid (943-947), under Ziri ibn Manad (935-971). Ziri was installed as the governor of central Maghreb and founded the gubernatorial residence of Ashir south-east of Algiers, with Fatimid support.When the Fatimids moved their base to Egypt in 972, Ziri's son Buluggin ibn Ziri (971-984) was appointed viceroy of Ifriqiya. The removal of the fleet to Egypt made the retention of Kalbid Sicily impossible, while Algeria broke away under the governorship ofHammad ibn Buluggin, Buluggin's son.
The relationship with the Fatimid overlords varied - in 1016 thousands of Shiites lost their lives in rebellions in Ifriqiya, and the Fatimids encouraged the defection ofTripolitania from the Zirids, but nevertheless the relationship remained close. In 1049 the Zirids broke away completely by adopting Sunni Islam and recognizing theAbbasids of Baghdad as rightful Caliphs, a move which was popular with the urban Arabs of Kairouan.^[4][7]
The Zirid period of Tunisia is considered a high point in its history, with agriculture, industry, trade and learning, both religious and secular, all flourishing.^[7] Management of the area by later Zirid rulers was neglectful as the agricultural economy declined, prompting an increase in banditry among the rural population.^[7]
When the Zirids renounced Shia Islam and recognized the Abbasid Caliphate, the Fatimids sent the Arab tribes of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym to Ifriqiya. The Zirids were defeated, and the land laid waste by the Bedouin. The resulting anarchy devastated the previously flourishing agriculture, and the coastal towns assumed a new importance as conduits for maritime trade and bases for piracy against Christian shipping.^[4]
After the loss of Kairouan (1057) the rule of the Zirids was limited to a coastal strip with Mahdia as the capital, while several Bedouin Emirates formed inland. Between 1146 and 1148 the Normans of Sicily conquered all the coastal towns, and in 1152 the last Zirids in Algeria were superseded by the Almohads.

For later period campaigns the area was reclaimed from the Almohads in 1229 by the Hafsid Dynasty until the 1500's when the Ottomans conquered them. Could have a Zirid/Hafsid dynasty name change like the Fatamid/Ayyubid in Egypt.

[siadhail]

I think I'd definitely want Ireland as a faction rather than, say, Volga-Bulgaria. Just think about how many people want to play Ireland, and think about how many people want to play Volga-Bulgaria. SS did not have a very good reason when they took Ireland out as a faction. Considering England never subdued Ireland until the 17th century, it's important for them not to be some rebel pushover.

And I definitely agree with these guys saying Aragon should be its own faction. We can definitely have Aragon, Castille-Leon, and Portugal all at the same time. We just need to get rid of less important factions. Rascia, Cicilia, Georgia, Obotrites, etc. Are we really going to get rid of a major power in favor of minor powers?

We should have as many factions as possible, yes, but let's favor the ones that were major powers and that people want to play the most.

[Larkin]

Is it possible to have foldered factions that you can switch in/out like in Roma Surrectum? Or does Medieval II not allow that?

[paleologos]

Is it possible to have foldered factions that you can switch in/out like in Roma Surrectum? Or does Medieval II not allow that?

That would be a submod within the submod and you would have to activate it before the beginning of a campaign from a launcher window.
We have yet to make a first release, it is too early for us to discuss a Matryoshka doll feature.
.

[b257]

We should have as many factions as possible, yes, but let's favor the ones that were major powers and that people want to play the most.

While I agree with the most part, if one takes into account the historical nature of the mod I believe in favoring the ones that were major powers "Historically" and not the ones the fans want most...Plus I really wanna play as Volga bulgaria

[siadhail]

My point is there are plenty of factions in the mod that were not major powers. Hence, all truly major powers should be put into the mod, but the rest should be decided on the basis of demand. I'd say a poll would be the best way to decide it.

[b257]

My point is there are plenty of factions in the mod that were not major powers. Hence, all truly major powers should be put into the mod, but the rest should be decided on the basis of demand. I'd say a poll would be the best way to decide it.

I think andy came up with a compromise awhile back stating that the first release would be an enhanced form of 6.4 and the later version would have more drastic changes. That would allow for more debate from the first release to the next release as to what factions should be included .

[siadhail]

I think andy came up with a compromise awhile back stating that the first release would be an enhanced form of 6.4 and the later version would have more drastic changes. That would allow for more debate from the first release to the next release as to what factions should be included .

Yeah, I gotcha. We'll keep their faction setup for the initial release, and change it afterward. But there's no reason why we can't discuss it and how to decide on those changes.

[Larkin]

That would be a submod within the submod and you would have to activate it before the beginning of a campaign from a launcher window.
We have yet to make a first release, it is too early for us to discuss a Matryoshka doll feature.
.

Yeah, of course it would require a launcher and such. But since there's so much debate on which factions to include the prospect of having swap factions will please people.

[paleologos]

Yeah, of course it would require a launcher and such. But since there's so much debate on which factions to include the prospect of having swap factions will please people.

Again: We have yet to make a first release.
The people who made SS were some of the most talented modders -in many respects- to have ever bothered to make a mod for M2TW Kingdoms.
They dwarf us.
Wait and see the first release.
It will show whether we are capable for more.
If we are you may ask for more.
Still, no guarantee you will get it but asking things of this kind now is like asking a kid who is venturing to put together his first custom skateboard to include ABS, a CD player, a GPS and air conditioning in his project.
Contact Andy and ask him not what he can do for you but what you can do to help him put forth the first stable release.
We will see the rest from that point on.

[Deteriorate]

Discussing it is one thing, but slagging all the factions you don't like, and saying that they should be chopped in favour of ones that you like, is a negative way to go about it. If we simply compile information of alternative factions for future releases we will have information and ideas for when a poll is created down the road.
The period of the first mod is 1100-1200 so the faction should be active in this period, but also I don't think it makes sense from a gameplay standpoint to have too many factions compacted into certain areas

[Larkin]

Again: We have yet to make a first release.
The people who made SS were some of the most talented modders -in many respects- to have ever bothered to make a mod for M2TW Kingdoms.
They dwarf us.
Wait and see the first release.
It will show whether we are capable for more.
If we are you may ask for more.
Still, no guarantee you will get it but asking things of this kind now is like asking a kid who is venturing to put together his first custom skateboard to include ABS, a CD player, a GPS and air conditioning in his project.
Contact Andy and ask him not what he can do for you but what you can do to help him put forth the first stable release.
We will see the rest from that point on.

You misunderstand me. I'm not asking for such a feature to be implemented - I've been following this since it began and I'm not stupid enough to make impossible demands of the team. I was merely asking if such a thing was possible within the confines of Medieval II, as it could be a possible solution to the "can we play this faction instead of this one" questions that people keep raising, regardless of whether or not it will actually be implemented at any stage.

By no means am I asking for or expecting anything of that degree in the first release, apologies if that is the impression I gave off.

[Andytheplatypus]

Is it possible to have foldered factions that you can switch in/out like in Roma Surrectum? Or does Medieval II not allow that?

Not really possible for it to be that easy as far as I know. Its a lot of work to add a faction.

[Larkin]

Not really possible for it to be that easy as far as I know. Its a lot of work to add a faction.

I did some research, and it is possible - but obviously not easy with all the details that go into a faction. If the people calling for Ireland etc to be a faction would make the stuff themselves, it would be easier, of course!

From what I understand you need a launcher to move the factions in and out of the main game files, which is quite the thing to design in itself. But definitely doable. Maybe for Titanium 2018

[siadhail]

Discussing it is one thing, but slagging all the factions you don't like, and saying that they should be chopped in favour of ones that you like, is a negative way to go about it. If we simply compile information of alternative factions for future releases we will have information and ideas for when a poll is created down the road.
The period of the first mod is 1100-1200 so the faction should be active in this period, but also I don't think it makes sense from a gameplay standpoint to have too many factions compacted into certain areas

You misread what I was saying. I wasn't slagging factions I don't like. I actually like most of the factions I pointed out. The very reason I am arguing for the return of Ireland as a faction was because it was slagged for dubious reasons. A faction that survived into the 17th century shouldn't be put out in favor of ones that didn't last beyond the 13th (Abbasids and Ghurids for example). Getting rid of Aragon would be slagging a faction for arbitrary reasons. If we are aiming for accuracy, then lets go for accuracy. I understand we can only have so many factions, so we need a specific methodology for choosing which stays in, which is axed, and which is put in after the first release. If Ireland doesn't make the cut after said methodology is in place, I won't complain.

Anyways, this thread is for the discussion of Titanium's factions, so let's continue. I believe Sweden should be added. It's not like they were sitting around doing nothing, or were conquered by Norway or Denmark. Swedish Vikings practically were the Rus. They would have been extremely active in the Baltic, in Scandinavia, and later became a truly major power.

[b257]

Sweden as a kingdom wasn't around during the period the mod takes place, if I recall correctly it was composed mostly of independent self governing provinces and jarldoms, could be wrong. Were their any significant jarldoms during that time? I wouldn't mind having Gotaland as a faction

[paleologos]

You misunderstand me. I'm not asking for such a feature to be implemented - I've been following this since it began and I'm not stupid enough to make impossible demands of the team. I was merely asking if such a thing was possible within the confines of Medieval II, as it could be a possible solution to the "can we play this faction instead of this one" questions that people keep raising, regardless of whether or not it will actually be implemented at any stage.

By no means am I asking for or expecting anything of that degree in the first release, apologies if that is the impression I gave off.

You never have to say sorry to me mate!

[Saint12345]

Rascia?? Guys please, first we were (I am Serb, thats why i am talking we) Zupanija or Principality how you call it, then we were Kingdom, then Tsardom... So at least call us Kingdom of Serbia not Principality of Rascia

[Andytheplatypus]

Factions are going to get worked over. Serbia might not even make the cut for final release factions.