Titanium - Faction Preview

[Skomorox]

Did Portugal really have a different foreign policy then Spain though in the early era?

Also for late ages I have a suggestion, rename Kievan Rus' to just Rus' or something along those lines, it will be more realistic, nobody ever really called Rus' states Kievan, Novgorodian, Suzdal untill 19th century really, which was back then for Russian propaganda, in fact Russian Wikipedia recently already changed Kievan Rus name to something like Old Rus' State or OldRussian State, there was a large debate on it, however In chronicles they just called it Rus' or Rossiya, Ruthenia or Russia - it's all same thing in different languages. It's actually even a stretch to have Novgorod and Kievan Rus' as different nations, the Novgorodians had their own system of administrative ruling but it was always other places Rus' princes they chose for foreign relations, so they were really subordinate to the Kievan Rus' or Old Rus' State, for example the famous Alexander Nevsky, he was actually from Vladimir Suzdal, ruled Novgorod, Kiev and Suzdal at different times. He like many others was summoned by Novgorodians. It is because of the complicated mess of early feudalism in the state. The principality states fought against each other but when there was a foreign enemy and Rus' was at risk they always united, it's maybe something of a unique system and that's why it's hard to portray...

So in a way the original Medieval 2 was actually more correct then any other just calling the whole state "Russia" with starting as a Boyar in one of the principalities and fight for more power in the main campaign, but the rebel Rus' cities were a bit wrongly portrayed as the whole Rus' would not allow other countries such as Poland or Lithuania to just take a principality so easily, this would only be allowed in infighting between boyars...

In the early ages this is not of a big problem as Rus' was a more or less united state like in the map shown but I would be glad if someone tried to portray a more realistic Rus' like aforementioned in the late ages.

So maybe the mapper can add to this or explain of having both Novgorod and Kievan Rus'? Is there maybe a similar situation somewhere in west Europe so we could copy solution to Rus'?

What is their opinion, I'm just interested from historical perspective, I don't think it's too big issue though if you guys want to leave it as I'm not even sure myself how to realistically portray the states of East Slavs at that time, I just put whatever information I know here as a Kievan myself..

[Larkin]

I think it is more for balance in that region. Having one unified Rus means they become a superpower every time - having Kiev and Novgorod means they won't always dominate over Hungary, Poland etc.

[Skomorox]

Ah, I see, that makes sense! Haven't thought about that one...

[D.Vallier]

That's cool, Larkin!
I'm not that worried, though it may seemed
I have no problem at all in playing as other faction. Not at all. I just didn't want you guys to think I was criticizing your nice work!
I'm brazilian, dude. I don't get upset so easily
Keep updating us fans about Titanium's news! I'm excited for it's release!

[Andytheplatypus]

Did Portugal really have a different foreign policy then Spain though in the early era?

Also for late ages I have a suggestion, rename Kievan Rus' to just Rus' or something along those lines, it will be more realistic, nobody ever really called Rus' states Kievan, Novgorodian, Suzdal untill 19th century really, which was back then for Russian propaganda, in fact Russian Wikipedia recently already changed Kievan Rus name to something like Old Rus' State or OldRussian State, there was a large debate on it, however In chronicles they just called it Rus' or Rossiya, Ruthenia or Russia - it's all same thing in different languages. It's actually even a stretch to have Novgorod and Kievan Rus' as different nations, the Novgorodians had their own system of administrative ruling but it was always other places Rus' princes they chose for foreign relations, so they were really subordinate to the Kievan Rus' or Old Rus' State, for example the famous Alexander Nevsky, he was actually from Vladimir Suzdal, ruled Novgorod, Kiev and Suzdal at different times. He like many others was summoned by Novgorodians. It is because of the complicated mess of early feudalism in the state. The principality states fought against each other but when there was a foreign enemy and Rus' was at risk they always united, it's maybe something of a unique system and that's why it's hard to portray...

So in a way the original Medieval 2 was actually more correct then any other just calling the whole state "Russia" with starting as a Boyar in one of the principalities and fight for more power in the main campaign, but the rebel Rus' cities were a bit wrongly portrayed as the whole Rus' would not allow other countries such as Poland or Lithuania to just take a principality so easily, this would only be allowed in infighting between boyars...

In the early ages this is not of a big problem as Rus' was a more or less united state like in the map shown but I would be glad if someone tried to portray a more realistic Rus' like aforementioned in the late ages.

So maybe the mapper can add to this or explain of having both Novgorod and Kievan Rus'? Is there maybe a similar situation somewhere in west Europe so we could copy solution to Rus'?

What is their opinion, I'm just interested from historical perspective, I don't think it's too big issue though if you guys want to leave it as I'm not even sure myself how to realistically portray the states of East Slavs at that time, I just put whatever information I know here as a Kievan myself..

I am not a Russian Historian, but I believe RW kept them as 2 different factions in game because they were actually 2 different fairly successful states in the time of our mod. I believe they were eventually wiped out by the mongols. RW will have to clarify

[RollingWave]

It is difficult to really describe the state of the Rus in 1100, as that was the transition period between them being relatively unified under the 3 generation of Sviatoslav / Vladimir / Yaroslav to the point where they were effectively about 5-6 different major factions . given that we can't realistically give 5-6 faction slots for them. this puts us in a serious bind, and the solution was sort of a half way thing of what could be realistically done. as the Novgorod Republic after the 1120s or so were more effectively out of the chaotic free for all down south and began to pursue their own agenda.

[Skomorox]

Meh, that's more then fair enough, I would say in 1100 Kiev was still the undisputed center and place of control over the whoel Rus' incl/ Novgorod at that time with Sviatopolk and Monomakh contending for grand duke title. The most realistic portrayal of Rus' in 1000-1167 would be that every time the Grand duke dies the children/factions members split the principalities and the royal heir only gets Kiev, the grandest principalities, and needs to retain control over his siblings/family members. So Civil war was inevitable as everyone wanted to become that one Grand Duke of Kiev who had limited by control over the whole region of Rus'. You are right in that Novgorod was more autonomous then any other region earlier, in 1120's, the split in power to 5-6 major factions happened in 1167 when Andrei Bogolyubsky decided to conquer Kiev in yet another feudal war for establishment of power after faction leader death, but was not interested in progressing it and establishing base like the others rather actually looted the city in terrible ways and started building his own capital in Vladimir-Suzdal, putting only a minor family member on the throne of principality of Kiev as a vassal. The others took that as a sign and started treating Kiev as just another city of the Rus', and it was truly free for all feudalism from that point. (Still united against foreign enemies though)

Anyway just throwing information out there, maybe you can implement some of it for some other campaigns or something. I wonder if it actually is possible to make cities rebel like in a script, because this happened everywhere not just Rus' to some extent, I also wonder if that wold be interesting to play though, if every time a faction leader dies, the cities rebel? It would be realistic though... something Big Gryms reality type.

Anyway that's all food for the thought, as for now the map looks great for early age Rolling Wave!

[Son of Mars]

What faction is in the south of france?

[Andytheplatypus]

Crusader States

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

is there really a point in having the crusaders in southern France? There were templar and hospitaller order chapters all over Western Europe, which were given to the Order by their members and the king of France, but that's not really the crusader states is it? That would be the same as to make Venice Teutonic in the late campaign.
If they are put there as a back-up for when they get swarmed by muslim factions, well, that's what happens to crusaders, usually followed by a massive boost from other european factions like France, England or HRE, but then they act as a faction on crusade, not a crusader faction.
If anything, make Rheims a crusader region, since the first king of Jerusalem's Duchy was situated there

[beermugcarl]

is there really a point in having the crusaders in southern France? There were templar and hospitaller order chapters all over Western Europe, which were given to the Order by their members and the king of France, but that's not really the crusader states is it? That would be the same as to make Venice Teutonic in the late campaign.
If they are put there as a back-up for when they get swarmed by muslim factions, well, that's what happens to crusaders, usually followed by a massive boost from other european factions like France, England or HRE, but then they act as a faction on crusade, not a crusader faction.
If anything, make Rheims a crusader region, since the first king of Jerusalem's Duchy was situated there

it's to do with the fact that the leader of the 1st crusade was also the count of Toulouse not the order chapters.

[Andytheplatypus]

it's to do with the fact that the leader of the 1st crusade was also the count of Toulouse not the order chapters.

Exactly, but even so might not stay the way it is. Have to do further testing.

[Ayyubid]

If you guys need more help with the ghor sultanate, let me know. I messaged RollingWave but got no reply

[Andytheplatypus]

RW has been very busy with trying to finish the obotrites. Keep working with opus for now on muslim units.

Also check these out, sent them to opus. Should be useful

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...4#post13193304

[Ayyubid]

RW has been very busy with trying to finish the obotrites. Keep working with opus for now on muslim units.

Also check these out, sent them to opus. Should be useful

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...4#post13193304

Thanks Andy. These skins should help a lot!

[stevietheconquer]

little understanding that toulouse become crusader region(one of the leaders...you got Godfried too and others!),but not so much later it becomes a real Cathar region,so strange too see this as a crusader region lol.who knowns how long it was already a cathar stronghold?

[Larkin]

little understanding that toulouse become crusader region(one of the leaders...you got Godfried too and others!),but not so much later it becomes a real Cathar region,so strange too see this as a crusader region lol.who knowns how long it was already a cathar stronghold?

Bear in mind a huge part of balance in SS was that the Crusader States always became rebel because of their family members dying. Having family in France will keep them safer and balance things out more. Not to mention making their diplomacy easier and adding another dimension into that region. Hopefully they won't find themselves at war with Genoa, France, Aragon etc.

[Andytheplatypus]

Once we get all the factions finished there will hsve to be testing done to see whether or not to keep Toulouse as CS.

[Fedual]

To bad WOTW is not releasing any persmissions for their WOTW Demo models, best looking western europe knights ever right there

[Andytheplatypus]

To bad WOTW is not releasing any persmissions for their WOTW Demo models, best looking western europe knights ever right there

Yes they do look excellent. Polycarpe is hopefully going to get some more time to mod now though, so at least WotW will get finished one day.