Titanium - Model Works and Previews

[Skomorox]

Wow my previous post had no spaces either for some reason even though I added them.

I understand the limitations, I was just joking about the Prada bag by the way, not sure if you took that serious judging by the non-smiley response, but anyway, I 100% understand the stretching limitation and I'm going to see if there is a work around it with logic if there is a way to solve this problem, either with a trick in texturing or by script, I'm pretty good at logical problems so I will think about this problem time to time, might start up milkshake again and test the files, maybe you can send me a link to the easiest way from the finished model to testing in the game? I guess it would be to just replace an existing model file with milk-shape's model, I'm guessing there will also have to be a separate compiler to medieval model file? Can't promise anything though because I'm also seriously working on a deep house track at the moment, but the info can't hurt....

By the way do you make textures with Wally, or is it compatible? If yes, I can definitely help you out in this area, as I just worked with wally recently.

As for 3d max, I was actually thinking of Maya. Though I guess it would be the same issues as you mentioned.

Also I can't rep you until I spread the reputation, I think I did rep a couple of times already. Although what will happen if I do rep you?
Is it a big thing on these forums and you can win a prize? Because I don't know

Well either way I don't mind repping people.

[Larkin]

Rep just adds points to your total, when you pass certain benchmarks you get little fleur de lis under your name and a personalised quote from a movie.

It's not like it matters that much, but it's a gaming forum and as on most gaming forums more rep, more posts = bigger e-penis, more authority.

Generally you give rep to a good post to be like "yo, keep doing what you're doing." You can sign it if you want.

[Yerevan]

It's not like it matters that much, but it's a gaming forum and as on most gaming forums more rep, more posts = bigger e-penis, more authority.

Thanks for this "e-penis" neologism, it helps to take some perspective. This is the only gaming forum I visit and I'm regularly shocked by the agressiveness of some posters *. On the R2TW's threads the smell of testoserone is almost suffocating !

* and it has nothing to do with rep points btw.

[paleologos]

I can only speak for myself, I consider rep points a form of non material reward, not a source of authority -do you think I am authoritative?

Now take a look at those and let me know what you think...

I changed the metal texture on the helmets and tried to make some improvements on the mail.
Just tell me I don't need to tinker with the mail any more (or not, just your opinion).

[King of the Ring]

i cant even see the picture properly
why dont you use imageshack.us?

[Skomorox]

Well guess what, I think it looks good. Actually the helmets and other details look amazing, there's basically no way to make them look better in the game in my opinion. But the mail seems to stand out now that I see the pictures clearly, it seems..... unrealistically plastic? Might just be the lighting. Why not add random spots? Do you need a mail texture? What format do you need, I can help if the texture file is compatible with Wally....

I think I know the problem, it is too uniform. Real mail has folds which disrupt the uniformity, you can recreate this in the texture by making the rings closer somewhere and farther elsewhere. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ed_armor_1.JPG

[paleologos]

Well guess what, I think it looks good. Actually the helmets and other details look amazing, there's basically no way to make them look better in the game in my opinion. But the mail seems to stand out now that I see the pictures clearly, it seems..... unrealistically plastic? Might just be the lighting. Why not add random spots? Do you need a mail texture? What format do you need, I can help if the texture file is compatible with Wally....

I think I know the problem, it is too uniform. Real mail has folds which disrupt the uniformity, you can recreate this in the texture by making the rings closer somewhere and farther elsewhere. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ed_armor_1.JPG

I actually have a very good mail texture, the reason it is so difficult to depict well in-game is because the actual rings are so small and so close to each other.
Believe it or not the thickness of each ring is one pixel wide in the texture I'm using and in close-up each ring is visible.
I guess I'll keep working at it.

[Skomorox]

Actually that's the thing, the rings might be too small. Try make them bigger with grey colour in the background?

[paleologos]

Actually that's the thing, the rings might be too small. Try make them bigger with grey colour in the background?

Been there, done that, you wouldn't believe how many different things I have tried and historicaly speaking mail rings were not wide enough for a finger to go through them.
I'd rather not make them bigger.
Chain mail is the most difficult thing to texture with satisfactory fidelity.
It's not just the size of the rings, it's the combination of size, shape and reflectiveness.
You see, when the light is reflected from a flat metal plate (real life) it bounces off at an angle equal and opposite to the angle that it came from.
When it is reflected from a metal cylinder only a line across the object's length will be "silvery".
But a chain mail ring is not itself flat, or cylindrical, it is a torus (always real life) and the surface of a torus features two different angles of curvature.
And when light is reflected off an iron torus only two points on the torus will actually send light to the eye of the observer.
This cannot be depicted in-game due to limitations of the graphics engine.
A chain mail hauberk will look like perforated aluminum foil if the reflections are set too high in the Alpha Channel of the Normal Map, or too dark -like of black woolwear- if other wise.
It's all about striking a ballance and it is not easy.
I've been working on a hauberk since the beginning of the year -believe it or not- and my WiP files of trial and error on chainmail are now nearly 400 MB, not counting downloaded photos and the ones I deleted because they were too far away from the intended result.
So you do understand why skinners (notorious primadonnas) are reluctant to share the "raw materials" of their work, especially when it comes to mail and when they do they are rather fiendish about being credited.

[Skomorox]

"I've been working on a hauberk since the beginning of the year -believe it or not- and my WiP files of trial and error on chainmail are now nearly 400 MB, not counting downloaded photos and the ones I deleted because they were too far away from the intended result."
Well that sounds like me when I make serious music.

Well anyway, you can also try to make the light reflection artificial by adding really bright white spots to some of the the rings at the positions you mentioned. Obviously the light rendering for such a reflection would be overkill, no computer would handle that, so the only solution is to fake it. I do feel like if you can't get it realistic you should make the mail brighter overall, I just can't help but feel it is too dark.

Although if you worked for a year on them you probably did try that then.

Well good luck anyway, the mail is really the only thing that bothers my eyes personally, it's not necessary the realism, it doesn't fit the atmosphere.

If it helps, as an underground gamer and a person with experience in mapping, texturing, modding, making games.. it doesn't matter how real the thing looks in the end as long as it fits the atmosphere, in my opinion for a game, any game, to make the player get into the game graphically and therefore mentally, there must be overall balance in the graphical entities, it mustn't be disproportionate and all must add up to the game and not contrast, point is fewer more abstract pixels can actually add to realism sometimes, for the more complex entities at super high resolutions will show more detail, that's true, but also will expose the blankness and weaknesses of the model in full definition which will turn off the player and the realistic experience, while the blur effect of the lower resolution unit will give way for imagination of the player, yet can be quite a "realistic" experience.

What people seem to not understand, is that in real life we actually don't quite see everything so clearly, only when we concentrate on something, and only then it will be that part which will be clear, the rest will be actually really blurry. Notice how while your reading this everything to the left and right of the screen looks very blurry. Even the letters above and below this sentence are quite smudgy.

So anyway, this may have looked like it was off topic but it's all in the graphics area, I'm just saying there is other tricks in graphics, photo-realistic detail doesn't always win against artists paint and tricks, a good example of this is horror movies which on the contrary try to hide as much things as possible showing only key concepts, now I know you obviously can't hide things quite like them and this isn't a movie but the same concept can be applied.

[Yerevan]

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Mmmmh, I couldn't see your pictures until I tried to reply with quote to your post ?! Then they did magically appear inside the quote !

EDIT : And now, they are not in my post ! So, if I want to look at them again, I have to reply to your post or edit this post :-(

Anyway, from what I see, they are very nice :-)

[paleologos]

Mmmmh, I couldn't see your pictures until I tried to reply with quote to your post ?! Then they did magically appear inside the quote !

EDIT : And now, they are not in my post ! So, if I want to look at them again, I have to reply to your post or edit this post :-(

Anyway, from what I see, they are very nice :-)

Thanks Yerevan, I appreciate.

Meanwhile, I have been working on some additions to the model which has now reached WiP #194, if you can believe that...

The fluted phrygian cap, the head band texture, the large nasal, the chin strap and the face texture are all new and there are a few more that I will share with the community as soon as humanly possible.

[Skomorox]

Looks interesting, though the texture isn't the best in my opinion. Mostly the part that covers the cheeks seems too much like ground rather then bronze or brass, not sure what it's supposed to be. As well as the top part of the hat, which I'm not sure is metal or not. However the actual modelling is very good as usual.

By the way how stupid is that type of protection honestly? I mean how is that going to protect someone from a sword/spear or whatever, it will hit the brass thing and just lead the weapon right in the eye in 90% of cases. I mean this type of inefficiency in protection is probably only matched by the bucket helmet (Great Helm) which is almost a technological step back as it is just so much worse then cone type helmet in pretty much all aspects.

On a side note more on the topic though, why are the rings in the chain mail not "actually connected" by which I mean, they look like this "CCCCCC" like they are a bunch of C's and not rings, while it should be "OOOO" (But inside each other) if you know what I mean. Is that for a reason or just not finished texture?

[paleologos]

Looks interesting, though the texture isn't the best in my opinion. Mostly the part that covers the cheeks seems too much like ground rather then bronze or brass, not sure what it's supposed to be. As well as the top part of the hat, which I'm not sure is metal or not. However the actual modelling is very good as usual.

By the way how stupid is that type of protection honestly? I mean how is that going to protect someone from a sword/spear or whatever, it will hit the brass thing and just lead the weapon right in the eye in 90% of cases. I mean this type of inefficiency in protection is probably only matched by the buckler helmet which is almost a technological step back as it is just so much worse then cone type helmet in pretty much all aspects.

On a side note more on the topic though, why are the rings in the chain mail not "actually connected" by which I mean, they look like this "CCCCCC" like they are a bunch of C's and not rings, while it should be "OOOO" (But inside each other) if you know what I mean. Is that for a reason or just not finished texture?

The crescent shaped cheek guard is textured as "hammered" bronze, this is a milkshape screenshot and it does not depict reflections at all.
I have not yet seen how this texture looks in-game but I' guessing it will look really good, though if I don't like it I will change it, it's not like I don't already have plenty of alternatives to spare.

As a protection, it is moderately better than a plain noseguard and a historically accurate evolutionary step between the nasal helmet and the fully faceguarded helmet.
To that if you add a neck guard you get the Early Great Helm. I have a few of those too in the model.

About the chain mail, take a very close look and you will see that it is as you say it should be.
Keep in mind that the links interlink at a not right angle and the innermost parts of them are not supposed to be getting much of sunlight to reflect.
So the parts of the "O"s that you say you don't see are actually there, just much darker.
I believe they are supposed be be like that.

[Skomorox]

I know there was this type of protection, I just don't see how this exact variant is better then a plain nose guard, I mean it is better in protection, but by what, 2% more efficiency in survival? I bet it costs and takes way more then 2% effort to make/sell. Are those barely supported bronze guards worth the price? Looking at the model from what you showed even from the protection point of view I think most commonly a blow to them will just skim the sword or whatever right to the eyes which is worse then hitting the cheeks technically making it worse then nasal helmet in some variants..

Anyway I see the part of the rings, I'm confused though, are they connected sideways at all? Or just top to bottom. If they are supposed to be connected sideways then looking at the picture closely they clearly aren't there is no possible part of the ring that is over the other, that part would be clearly visible.

If they are not supposed to be connected, you might want to just barely make more of the ring visible maybe if it doesn't take much time.

[paleologos]

I know there was this type of protection, I just don't see how this exact variant is better then a plain nose guard, I mean it is better in protection, but by what, 2% more efficiency in survival? I bet it costs and takes way more then 2% effort to make/sell. Are those barely supported bronze guards worth the price? Looking at the model from what you showed even from the protection point of view I think most commonly a blow to them will just skim the sword or whatever right to the eyes which is worse then hitting the cheeks technically making it worse then nasal helmet in some variants..

Anyway I see the part of the rings, I'm confused though, are they connected sideways at all? Or just top to bottom. If they are supposed to be connected sideways then looking at the picture closely they clearly aren't there is no possible part of the ring that is over the other, that part would be clearly visible.

If they are not supposed to be connected, you might want to just barely make more of the ring visible maybe if it doesn't take much time.

They are connected, this is a piece of the original texture that I am using.



Look closer. I have adapted lightness and contrast in the version of the file that I am using for the model because the same files will almost always look differently in GIMP, MilkShape amd in-game.
The darkened version looks better in-game.

[HELLEKIN]

After i´ve made all the Obotries units this is one more contribution of mine to the mod....obotries town....give your opinion guys....

[HELLEKIN]

Who said that we can´t mod when we are in a plane?Some sketches to make travel time past faster ....give your opinion guys,for future units....

[paleologos]

About the settlement ikons I can only say they are solid work, well done!
The concept art of the warriors looks very interesting.
Though I don't know how the Obies really looked, I believe if you can make them look in-game the way you made them look in your sketches they are going to be a very noteworthy addition.
Keep it up.

[Skomorox]

The sketches look great, you've got some talent in drawing. And not just the lame anime one .
As for the obotrites town, just my honest opinion, it looks ok I guess, nothing spectacular though.
Maybe the textures could be improved to look more noticeable although it's just a town on the map so it's your call.

- Paleologos, I'm just suggesting things, if I seem commanding or something like that I'm not. I'm just trying to help, the decision for final outcome is yours, if I'm saying something that you know will look worse then just ignore it, I can't test the model myself, just commenting on what I say. Oh and btw I see they are connected just not sideways (Left to Right) Maybe I'm just blind from all this dust I got here though.