Aggressive AI

[ERE_Friend]

First off, I'm really impressed with the mod. There is amazing variety in units and how different each faction is. Really blows the most famous M2TW mods out of the water in terms of creating new content.

I started a campaign as the racially mixed Zora faction, the Labryana or whatever, and 10 turns in I'm at war with the Spider race from the west, Hyrule down South, and the Gorons from the East. In each case the AI was the aggressor! What's going on? I'm playing on very hard/very hard. I understand why Hyrule would come to get me given my faction, but being at war with three factions so early on is a little much.

[Vlad The Vanquisher]

Before I begin, I would like to inform you that the faction I believe you are referring to is Lanaryu. Labryana is the technology advanced human race in the southeast. Hyrule usually will ALWAYS target the human player if the border them, so that is expected. the Gohma and Gorons usually try for them as well. If you want to play as them, make allies ASAP to try to convince the enemy to not invade. in other words, they are less likely to attack if you have powerful or many allies.Increasing your military size early also helps as well.

[ERE_Friend]

Thank you for the response. Yes Lanaryu. Very interesting I didn't know that the AI could be programmed to do that kind of thing in M2TW. I restarted the game and made allies with the Zora and expanded a bit faster; I have all 4 territories along the coast and just got the eastern most castle in the swamps. Just when I thought the computer might be nicer Hyrule invaded and I can see the spider guys are on their way. Hopefully Goron leaves me alone. I will trying to play a bit more aggressively so the computer takes me more seriously. Kinda funny that the "chill" Gorons would be so likely to invade.

[Emrys]

The chill Gorons have yet to do anything other than mine so far in my game. They seem pretty content with their rocks....

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

Welcome to the club, Kschneides. The AI tends to be quite aggressive in this game, with the biggest offender being the Kingdom of Hyrule (which is to be expected). As soon as they AI gets it in their head that they can take you on, they will attack unceasingly, regardless of whether or not this initial assumption proves correct. In my Twili campaign, I got into a war with the Gerudo (which is normal, as the Gerudo hold the area where the Twili pop out of). However, while I was fighting them, the Kingdom of Hyrule declared war on me. A few turns later, the Zuna declare war. A few turns after that, the Gohma follow suit. Now I'm stuck with 4 enemies surrounding me. Just when I feel like I have the advantage, another guy comes along and declares war. It is actually quite irritating.

In my current Zora campaign, I played it diplomatically, securing the Fairy and Kokiri borders with alliances. The Gorons I killed in order to fulfill the campaign objective. The Hylians, of course, attacked me. So far no other faction has intervened. This is good, because I have conquered Vigjaro, Hyrule Prime, Lon Lon Ranch, Kakariko, and Naldariko. Without a bunch of AIs to fight me at once, the Hylians are not so threatening.

As Vlad the Vanquisher has stated, make alliances as soon as you can. This will give a sense of security, prevent your enemies from making friends, and generally put you in an overall better position. A united army is a powerful one. That same army spread along four different fronts will not be as effective, obviously. If you are not the Hylians, get rid of the Hylians; they will always attack you. If you are the Hylians, then you start in a strong enough position to make the world your plaything quite easily. It's all about the Kingdom of Hyrule...

[ERE_Friend]

Thanks for the story, I'll follow your advice. I understand the game is called total war, but being in a permanent blitzkrieg in all directions because the AI is so hostile is both frustrating, tedious, and ruins the fun of the game once you conquer a quarter of the map and become bigger than any other faction and thus unstoppable (in position of best economy AND a human brain capable of better tactics lol). This is a problem I have with the TW series in general actually, although it's a bit worse than normal so far in this mod. I guess I'll have to kill the Hylians as you say, but then I'll be the biggest game in town, so much for being the the small and vulnerable Lanaryu.

I wish the Creative Assembly developers would focus on making better diplomacy, better campaign AI, and make the game more about roleplaying as a faction and not only battles. I don't want it to become as complex as the Universalis series or Crusader Kings, but some sense of running a country and not just an army that holds territory would be nice.

[Dragus]

Perhaps the AI will be looked at or even perhaps options/different installations could be added at a later time. I certainly share your opinion on extremely aggressive behavior.

[ERE_Friend]

Yeah someone on another forum said it best actually. They were saying that in other strategy games wars often have a specific purpose and they can have a beginning and an end. In TW wars are always just for the sake of endless expansion, you can never have a border skirmish or conflict over one territory. Once started wars go on forever, AI won't budge no matter how much they loose and all the fighting earns you bad rep with everyone else, who then also attack you. What I have found is that if you really want to limit wars you need lots of money and territories, factions will do almost anything for a free territory (including peace).

[Jakeford]

Yeah someone on another forum said it best actually. They were saying that in other strategy games wars often have a specific purpose and they can have a beginning and an end. In TW wars are always just for the sake of endless expansion, you can never have a border skirmish or conflict over one territory. Once started wars go on forever, AI won't budge no matter how much they loose and all the fighting earns you bad rep with everyone else, who then also attack you. What I have found is that if you really want to limit wars you need lots of money and territories, factions will do almost anything for a free territory (including peace).

Actually if you are dominating the AI or attack them out of the blue they usually send a diplomat to you begging for peace.

[ERE_Friend]

In my experiences with Vanilla and a few of the biggest mods on VH/VH, I have rarely had that happen, but that's just my experience.

[TatlTael]

yeah same story here, I recently did a labryanna campaign and my first move was getting alliances with all the NPC factions and securing my back yard. when heading downwards towards ordona I allied with the kokori because A.hyrule gets pissed when I attack ordona and b. they always seem to try and force thier way through the kokiri to get to me. It ends up weakening both factions to the point I can just mop them up. I do the same thing when heading north ally with the gorons and kill the zora (usually laranyu first since KOH tends to be lightly defended on top plus it a nice staging area forthe gohma). though with the removal of religion problems and capital distance it becomes excessively easy to sweep 2/3 of the world in 16 turns

[DiddlyDark]

yeah same story here, I recently did a labryanna campaign and my first move was getting alliances with all the NPC factions and securing my back yard. when heading downwards towards ordona I allied with the kokori because A.hyrule gets pissed when I attack ordona and b. they always seem to try and force thier way through the kokiri to get to me. It ends up weakening both factions to the point I can just mop them up. I do the same thing when heading north ally with the gorons and kill the zora (usually laranyu first since KOH tends to be lightly defended on top plus it a nice staging area forthe gohma). though with the removal of religion problems and capital distance it becomes excessively easy to sweep 2/3 of the world in 16 turns

Huh, that's odd.

Are you talking about religious unrest? Because that's still in 3.0, last time I checked, and it caused problems for my Labrynna campaign until I gave them a building to convert settlements.

Edit: Alright, I get it now. In fact, I do the exact same stuff, but with Cannon Fodder because frugality.

[TatlTael]

yeah 3.0, moving one or two units into a settlement, usually Tokay slaves for me keeps them happy. I always try to put in a religious building to convert them to no religion ( which I find highly ironic) to add to happiness but religion never been a major problem for me so far. religious unrest is still there but its not as paralyzing as it used to be.....I don't want to talk about how ruins used to be.

[Mr_Nygren]

Haha, i played as Hyrule and i was attacked from the east by the Gorons, from the west by the Kokiri, from the upper south by the Gohma and from the south by the Gerudo..

I was victorious on every front, but as they came with replacement forces i had no forces left.. I was forced into becoming a vasall of the Gorons.. Unfortunately the other races declared war on me without the Gorons backing me up.. So i pretty much lost it..

[TatlTael]

yeah multifront wars are never good, just look at the germans

[Gongsunzan]

You think the ai is agressive in this mod? Try third age total war which gives the computers additional troops when you seige them and start beating them. Plus the battle Ai is the best of any mod out there. Though that isnt saying much since med 2 has terrible ai

[Duke Serkol]

third age total war which gives the computers additional troops when you seige them and start beating them.

That's some Mario Kart bul---it right there.

[Jakeford]

medieval 2 doesn't have terrible Ai, the computers do a pretty good job on medium difficulty in the standard campaign, its not good but I certainly wouldn't say its terrible.

[Dragus]

That's some Mario Kart bul---it right there.

It is indeed absolutely awful. Multiple super-stacks can appear immediately after you take their capital. When removing that particular feature though, the mod is quite enjoyable.

[Jakeford]

It is indeed absolutely awful. Multiple super-stacks can appear immediately after you take their capital. When removing that particular feature though, the mod is quite enjoyable.

Dragus! you must tell me! how do you remove that feature? and if I do will it remove that feature for my current campaign? I already had to lower the upkeep for every unit in third age by about 50, Hyrule total war upkeep is petheticly low and Third age upkeep is to high for the amount of money you make, I like the balance the vanilla game has.

So anyway I really would like that to remove that feature, I will have finally been successful at third age total war and then all of a sudden MULITIPLE SUPER ARMIES TROLOLO!