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Thread: Eliminating AP

  1. #21

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    k/t, I'm including some of your polearm and axes proposed changes in Titanium, leaving only blunt weapons with AP.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    On a personal level i have tried removing AP from axes and increasing damage by about 2-3 depending on unit and it seems to work fine i also reduced some sword damage slightly units like Foot Ritterbruders doing 12 damage with a 1 hand sword was too much for my taste.

    Modeling armor in this game is really quite hard imo swords do great vs unarmored targets but even putting on some leather armor can slow down a sword slash quite a bit and mail of good quality would stop a sword completely and would give the wearer of the mail a bruise and really not hurt all that much. Axes really didn't do a whole lot better vs mail but the blows would hurt much more due to the small edge concentrating the force on a small area much like maces do.

    Vs plate neither a sword nor a axe would really be effective you could hit someone wearing plate with a sword all day long and they would probably not even feel much of anything with an axe unless you had a axe with a spike or maul on the opposite side of the blade it would not really do much more then a sword. From everything i have read plate armor was very effective besides the strongest crossbows/polearms and firearms.

    The other thing i have done is increase the cost of sword units and decreased the cost of some axe units swords. Until around the 15th century swords were quite expensive to own because of the material and skill/time needed to make a sword where as a axe needed much less materials and did not take alot of skill or time to make and could be repaired quite easy.

    I would love to see a mod that adds in more early units besides spearmen doing 100-200 turns or years using and fighting nothing but spears gets boring. Also a good after battle sacking script there is no way after defeating an enemy army you would not loot the corpses for usable armor and weapons

  3. #23

  4. #24
    Chef_Jimmy's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    axes & polearms are chopping weapons, more so than slashing weapons. They rely more so on the physics of the swing & weight of the weapon.

    Impact damage weighs in as much as the sharpness of the blade. Hence their AP qualities.

    Why would someone wielding an axe be more effective against an armored knight, than an un-armored peasant?

    That's an extreme example & morale weighs in heavily, but being unarmored does tend to make you more able to dodge such a heavy weapon being used against you.

    A system of varying levels of AP would be nice. I mean arrows, maces & flails, & axes & pole weapons all do pierce armor to different degrees.

    Personally IMHO I think the armor piercing degree goes from weakest to strongest, left to right, how I just listed them.

    OfC it's just a game... so theirs a paradox or something

  5. #25

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    Right, the unbalanced weighting implies the AP effect of axes and percussive weapons such as maces and hammers.

    An AP weapon is not more effective against an armored knight than an un-armored peasant, but is able to halve the target's armor. Most AP weapons have a low base attack so they are relatively less effective vs unarmored targets than a sword for example.

    Unarmored- and lightly-armored combatants get up to a +3 agility bonus to their defense.

    I agree that a system of varying AP levels would be nice if we could have it.
    Last edited by Point Blank; January 11, 2015 at 05:52 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    Quote Originally Posted by Melooo182 View Post
    k/t, I'm including some of your polearm and axes proposed changes in Titanium, leaving only blunt weapons with AP.
    Cool.

    Here's my most recent copy of that file. The date on it is after the first post in this thread, so maybe I adjusted things a little more. I hope it helps you.

    Crap, the forum doesn't want to upload it.

    I'll try a spoiler.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    #####################################
    CURRENT VALUES
    #####################################

    knife 1 1 1 0 -1 0.3 x-radius MTW2_Knifeman
    rapier 2 2 5 0 -1 0.3 x-radius, piercing MTW2_Rapier MTW2_Fast_Rapier
    light sword, cut&thrust 3 2 5 15 -1 0.35 x-radius, piercing MTW2_Slow_Swordsman MTW2_Swordsman MTW2_Fast_Swordsman
    MTW2_Swordsman_Aggressive
    MTW2_Slow_Non_Shield_Swordsman MTW2_Non_Shield_Swordsman MTW2_Fast_Non_Shield_Swordsman
    arming sword, c&t 4 3 5 30 0 piercing as above
    long sword, c&t 5 3 5 45 0 piercing as above
    light sword, cutting 4 2 4 30 -1 slashing MTW2_Slow_Swordsman_Slash MTW2_Swordsman_Slash MTW2_Fast_Swordsman_Slash
    MTW2_Swordsman_Slash_Aggressive
    MTW2_Slow_Non_Shield_Swordsman_Slash MTW2_Non_Shield_Swordsman_Slash MTW2_Fast_Non_Shield_Swordsman_Slash
    arming sword, cutting 5 3 4 45 0 0.45 x-radius, slashing as above
    falchion 6 2 3 60 +1 slashing as above
    archer's mallet 1 1 2 45 0 0.35 x-radius, AP MTW2_Slow_Mace MTW2_Mace MTW2_Fast_Mace
    MTW2_Slow_Mace_Aggressive
    MTW2_Slow_Non_Shield_Mace MTW2_Non_Shield_Mace MTW2_Fast_Non_Shield_Mace
    club 3 2 3 45 0 as above
    war hammer 1 2 3 45 0 0.35 x-radius, AP as above
    mace 2 2 3 60 +1 AP as above
    axe 3 2 2 60 +1 0.45 x-radius, AP as above
    spear 3 3 1 60 0 0.3 x-radius, light_spear, mount_effect +4, shield +2 MTW2_Spear MTW2_Fast_Spear



    estoc 5 4 6 45 +1 AP, mount_effect +1, piercing MTW2_Slow_2HSwordsman_Estoc MTW2_2HSwordsman_Estoc
    claymore 8 6 6 45 +1 0.45 x-radius, mount_effect +1, piercing MTW2_Slow_2HSwordsman MTW2_2HSwordsman
    MTW2_2HSwordsman_Aggressive
    greatsword, cut&thrust 9 6 6 60 +1 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +1, piercing as above MTW2_2HSwordsman_Aggressive
    greatsword, cutting 10 6 5 75 +1 0.55 x-radius, mount_effect +1, slashing MTW2_2HSwordsman_Slash
    club 7 3 3 75 +1 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +1 MTW2_Slow_2H_Axe MTW2_2H_Axe MTW2_Fast_2H_Axe
    pike 2 4 1 90 +3 mount_effect +2, spear, long_pike, defense halved (round down) MTW2_Slow_Pike MTW2_Pike
    MTW2_Slow_Aggressive_Pike MTW2_Aggressive_Pike
    spear 5 4 2 60 +1 mount_effect +2, spear MTW2_2H_Spear
    axe 7 4 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +1, slashing MTW2_Slow_2H_Axe MTW2_2H_Axe MTW2_Fast_2H_Axe
    hammer 5 5 5 75 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, piercing MTW2_Slow_2H_Poleaxe MTW2_2H_Poleaxe MTW2_Fast_2H_Poleaxe
    poleaxe 6 5 5 90 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, piercing as above
    improvised farm tool 4 4 3 105 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, already 'Rustic' MTW2_Slow_Halberd_Secondary MTW2_Halberd_Secondary MTW2_Fast_Halberd_Secondary
    halberd 6 5 5 120 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +6, slashing as above
    billhook 5 5 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +4, slashing as above
    voulge 6 5 4 105 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +6, slashing as above
    swordstaff 8 5 5 75 +1 0.45 x-radius, mount_effect +4, slashing as above
    halberd (phalanx) 6 5 7 120 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, light_spear, phalanx formation, piercing MTW2_Halberd_Primary
    MTW2_Slow_Halberd_Primary_Aggressive MTW2_Halberd_Primary_Aggressive
    billhook (phalanx) 5 5 6 90 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, light_spear, phalanx formation, piercing as above
    voulge (phalanx) 6 5 6 105 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, light_spear, phalanx formation, piercing as above
    swordstaff (phalanx) 8 5 7 75 +1 light_spear, phalanx formation, slashing as above

    #####################################
    PROPOSED CHANGES
    #####################################

    mace 2 2 3 60 +1 AP - WHAT IT IS NOW

    mace (light mace) 4 2 3 45 +1 PROPOSED CHANGE ; maybe 5?

    mace (heavy mace) 8 2 1 60 +1 PROPOSED CHANGE ; mace defense 1 instead of 2?
    maybe 4/5 and 8



    light sword, cutting 4 2 4 30 -1 slashing - MODELED ON

    axe 3 2 2 60 +1 0.45 x-radius, AP - WHAT IT IS NOW

    axe (crappy units) 5 2 2 45 +1 0.45 x-radius, blunt, piercing or slashing? - PROPOSED CHANGE ; hatchet 4/5 attack?



    falchion 6 2 3 60 +1 slashing - MODELED ON

    axe (war axe) 7 2 2 60 +1 0.45 x-radius, - PROPOSED CHANGE ; axe defense 2 instead of 3?
    started w 8, maybe 9



    war hammer 1 2 3 45 0 0.35 x-radius, AP - WHAT IT IS NOW

    war hammer 6 2 2 45 0 0.35 x-radius - PROPOSED CHANGE



    greatsword, cutting 10 6 5 75 +1 0.55 x-radius, mount_effect +1, slashing - MODELED ON

    axe (2H) 7 4 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +1, slashing - WHAT IT IS NOW

    axe (2H) 13 4 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +1, slashing - PROPOSED CHANGE



    halberd 6 5 5 120 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +6, slashing - WHAT IT IS NOW

    halberd 14 5 5 105 +2 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +6, slashing - PROPOSED CHANGE
    maybe 16/17



    swordstaff 8 5 5 75 +1 0.45 x-radius, mount_effect +4, slashing - MODELED ON

    billhook 5 5 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +4, slashing - WHAT IT IS NOW

    billhook 11 5 4 90 +2 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +4, slashing - PROPOSED CHANGE



    voulge 6 5 4 105 +2 0.5 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +6, slashing - WHAT IT IS NOW

    voulge 15 5 4 120 +2 0.5 x-radius, mount_effect +6, slashing - PROPOSED CHANGE
    maybe 15


    poleaxe 6 5 5 90 +2 0.45 x-radius, AP, mount_effect +2, piercing

    poleaxe 12 5 5 90 +2 0.45 x-radius, mount_effect +2, piercing



    should poleaxes have a higher attack value than 2h axes? yes -> make 2h axes 12 and poleaxes 13. no -> poleaxes thrust as well and they're better for defense,
    so 12 is ok, on the other hand, maybe they could be 13...
    what about war hammers? 5 attack, 2 charge, 3 defense, 45 attack delay? or 6 attack and 2 defense?
    i think voulges should do more damage and have a longer attack delay than halberds (so switch their values), since voulges have a heavier head (at least from
    wikipedia pictures). or maybe halberds can be brought down to 14 attack; they still have higher defense but greater attack delay

  7. #27

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    Woops. Wrong thing.Attachment 319495
    Last edited by k/t; January 12, 2015 at 06:00 AM.

  8. #28

  9. #29

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    Latest files.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #30

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    The link doesn't work, yeah. I was fiddling with some stuff in the attachment options because I thought I could recover some files from it. Just the stuff in the spoiler.

    What about the EDU for TATW 2.0? Do you have that?

  11. #31
    Chef_Jimmy's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    not sure my last post came across right... what I was saying in a nut shell, is AP weapons should be better VS armored opponents than lightly armored opponents, & I also disagree with taking the AP ability away from axes & pole weapons, having AP just for blunt weapons doesn't seem right. I mean try cutting down a tree with a slashing weapon or a sword :p you'd prolly do better with a dull axe. At the same time, you'd prolly do better with a sword than a mace though. Am I off point again? Weight & impact.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Eliminating AP

    Axes shouldn't have AP (at least not 1H ones), but poleaxes, halberds, bills, voulges, warhammers and maces should.
    Last edited by k/t; January 14, 2015 at 10:04 PM.

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