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Thread: Alexander the Ungay

  1. #1
    Lord Rahl's Avatar Behold the Beard
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    Default Alexander the Ungay

    Was Alexander the Great a Homosexual?



    I recently read a book about Alexander the Great entitled, Alexander the Great and His Time by Agnes Savill. In the latter chapters of the book it mentions that Alexander may not have been the homosexual which it seems our modern ideals claim him to be.

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    Chapter XIII discusses Alexander the Great's consideration for women, in that he treated them with the utmost respect, even ordering his own soldiers to be killed for raping captives. In Persia, men would often comment on his self-discipline when it came to relations with women. From his upbringing under Aristotle taught him to have self-control, greatness of soul, and intellect as his ultimate aim. Savill goes onto explain how many modern writers detract from the character of Alexander by alleging that he was homosexual, therefore not wanting to involve himself with women.

    Alexander was offered the most beautiful women in the world and yet he did not take that advantage. Alexander did have, however, for himself Roxane, of whom he took as his wife. It is disputed of his intentions, whether they were political, genuine, or perhaps both. Barsine, Alexander's woman previous to Roxane and obtained after the Battle of Issus, was most likely had for the same reasons as Roxane. Barsine had a history of sorts with Alexander starting from their early years. In Greece women may have been seen as having an inferior importance in society and/or stature but in Macedon it was very much different. Women were seen as equals. This leads me to believe that Alexander wouldn't have had the same Greek thoughts towards women as many would assume.

    Philoxenes told the King, Alexander, that two beautiful boys had been offered to him. This made Alexander frenetic. He shouted, "What evil has he seen in me that he should purchase for me such shameful creatures?" An addition to that statement is disputed but it continues, "Tell the dealer to take his wares to hell." Either Alexander did not take these boys because he was not homosexual or he, in his overwhelmingly sound character, refused the boys out of respect for himself and others.

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    It seems to be a commonly accepted supposition that the Greek culture was always friendly to homosexuality. That is a false assumption. In the early days of Greece homosexuality was tolerated in certain regions but criticized and punished in others. Greeks did not cherish homosexuality. The cherished beauty. It is not an incorrect presumption that Greek men would have been attracted to another man for his charm and beauty but that does not mean a relationship between the two was homosexual. Certainly, in Sparta and in other more primitive cultures homosexuality and pederasty were thought of as respectful. However, when Sparta lost its once glorious authority the practices were deemed as dishonorable.

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    Was Alexander the Great, the most brilliant tactician, god of Egypt, King of Persia, and ruler of countless tribes, a homosexual? This may never be finally decided but from what I have read, and I am in no way an expert, I find it unlikely. His culture and upbringing does not lead to our modern assumption of his homosexuality and neither does his steadfast character. The man was never and never will be matched as a man. He will forever be Alexander the Great.
    Last edited by Lord Rahl; September 04, 2006 at 08:02 PM.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Modern aged people simply dont know or tend to forget that the homosexuality was rather cummon in those ancient times.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    exactly

    I will kick some english ass in braveheart style ;D

  4. #4

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Bravo! I find it fascinating how much we, as modern people, take for granted. I mean Colin Farrel was Gay in "Alexander" thus it must be so. Some Greeks were homo-sexuals at the time, thus all Greeks accepted Homo-sexuality in the entire existance of the Hellenic Society. Rep given for going against the grain and having some truth to tell.

  5. #5
    Tabell's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Ive noticed its a common habit to try and claim virtually all historical figures were homosexual, often going off some very scraggly evidence indeed.

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    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal_Hicks
    I mean Colin Farrel was Gay in "Alexander" thus it must be so.
    Or maybe he was portrayed as a homosexual because it is the prevalent belief among most of society. I think there is sufficient evidence to say he was probably atleast a bisexual. I honestly dont think it really matters much though I do disagree strongly with your assertion that Alexander was the greatest tactician.

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    Lord Rahl's Avatar Behold the Beard
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by M.R.Maiornikov
    Modern aged people simply dont know or tend to forget that the homosexuality was rather cummon in those ancient times.
    That is exactly the opposite of what my article was about.

    I honestly dont think it really matters much though I do disagree strongly with your assertion that Alexander was the greatest tactician.
    It matters little however it is an issue that I became interested in since it was in the book I read. I think it does hold significance with our societal historical accuracy.

    Alexander wasn't the greatest tactician? He never lost a battle, he won a battle by having his army perform drills, and Hannibal, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon all used his tactics to a degree.
    Last edited by Lord Rahl; September 04, 2006 at 08:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Rahl
    That is exactly the opposite of what my article was about.
    but my point is truth, the homosexuality was cummon in those times.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    I do disagree strongly with your assertion that Alexander was the greatest tactician.
    I didn't say that...but I was thinking it.....you are a mind reader.
    but my point is truth, the homosexuality was cummon in those times.
    Rahls post says the opposite of that.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    personallly, I dont think he was homosexual, and I never thought he was, no offence to any homosexual members on this forum or anything


  11. #11
    Legio XX Valeria Victrix's Avatar Great Scott!
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal_Hicks
    Bravo! I find it fascinating how much we, as modern people, take for granted. I mean Colin Farrel was Gay in "Alexander" thus it must be so.
    But he wasn't homosexual...he was bisexual. Or did you miss the sex scene between he and Roxane?

    Anyways, homosexuality as we define it was not a conscious mentality back in classical times. Nowadays, homosexuality is weighed down and saturated in Christian "morality" issues. There was none of that back then.

    Certainly some Greek cities deemed homosexual behavior inappropriate, but several prominent examples exist of the military elite of a society practicing homsexual behavior. Thebes and Sparta to name just a couple. Seeing that much of Macedonian military power was based off that of Thebes, it is not impossible to suggest that perhaps military homosexuality existed (although not to the same degree as in, say the Theban Sacred Band) in the Macedonian military as well.

    Frankly, I don't understand the discussion on whether Alexander was "straight" or "gay," foremost because those terminologies are post-Christian and did not have the same meaning in classical times, and also, if he was indeed homosexual or bisexual or what-have-you, how does that change any of what he accomplished? Would he not still be a great man if he were homosexual?


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    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by M.R.Maiornikov
    Modern aged people simply dont know or tend to forget that the homosexuality was rather cummon in those ancient times.
    if you read the first post, then you will see it was tolerated in certain regions, not generally accepted. In Rome, for example,Augustus outlawed homosexuality (not that they could help it)

    @Rahl, Alexander could have been gay, but due to social taboos, he might have hid it.
    Last edited by Last Roman; September 04, 2006 at 08:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    It matters little however it is an issue that I became interested in since it was in the book I read. I think it does hold significance with our societal historical accuracy.
    Oh no doubt I agree it is an intresting subject, but some(not saying you) take it way to seriously.

    Alexander wasn't the greatest tactician? He never lost a battle, he won a battle by having his army perform drills, and Hannibal, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon all used his tactics to a degree.
    Temur never lost a battle either, and fought signifigantly more battles, and had to create his army from scratch. Alexander was a very able general, but he also inherited the strongest military of the day. Im confident Phillip would have been able to defeate Darius as well. Even if Ceaser and the other did use some of his tactics that does not make them worse. He came before them and his tactics would influence later generations. Just as the people before him influenced him and the people after him influenced others after them.

    I didn't say that...but I was thinking it.....you are a mind reader.
    Actually that part was aimed at Rahl

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    but my point is truth, the homosexuality was cummon in those times
    Im afraid it wasnt. If as homosexuals claim they have no choice in their sexual prefferences why should your culture cause more people to be gay.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  15. #15
    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Im afraid it wasnt. If as homosexuals claim they have no choice in their sexual prefferences why should your culture cause more people to be gay.
    Well its not really an issue of full blooded homosexuals. Those will always remain in relativly the same numbers and will certainly never become the social norm. Now Bisexuality however is something that can be very cultural. Many animals for example will hump their fellow males while still mating with females.

    Being homosexual and being able to apreciate the male figure are very different things. Without the social stygma of homosexual acts then it could be theorized that the amount of sam sex sex would increase drastically. If a man can get sexual pleasure out of his own hand I am sure he can get sexual pleasure out of another man, it is simply social inhibitions that keep men refraining from such actions.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio XX Valeria Victrix
    But he wasn't homosexual...he was bisexual. Or did you miss the sex scene between he and Roxane?
    no way, rosario dawson is sooooo hot,

    I think this discussion is inspiring, the only problem is when the "other" members get here, it will become an anti-homosexual thread, then it will be banned.....

    but I dont think alexander was homosexual, it was common in these days to paint people you didnt like as defilers of little boys or something, thats not alexander, thats wacko jacko, they called julius caesar gay... , the guy whose soldiers told people to lock their wives away, nonsense, nah, maybe alexander had a close relationship with hephastion but that was it, there was nothing homosexual about it
    Last edited by Darth Caesar; September 04, 2006 at 09:11 PM.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Being homosexual and being able to apreciate the male figure are very different things. Without the social stygma of homosexual acts then it could be theorized that the amount of sam sex sex would increase drastically. If a man can get sexual pleasure out of his own hand I am sure he can get sexual pleasure out of another man, it is simply social inhibitions that keep men refraining from such actions.
    And this is why homosexuality has always had a taboo attached to it. Yet homosexuals would deny this . We are all bisexuals to one extent or another . Only social taboos stop many from practicing these sexual prefferences
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  18. #18
    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    And this is why homosexuality has always had a taboo attached to it. Yet homosexuals would deny this . We are all bisexuals to one extent or another . Only social taboos stop many from practicing these sexual prefferences
    I agree, but some are very little bisexual on the straight side, and others very little bisexual on the gay side. So while being bisexual(to a degree) is prevalent in all, but is only really influential under social constructs, homosexuality is simply having an overwhelming sexual desire towards the same sex where as straight individuals have an overwheleming sexual desire towards the other sex.

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    Lord Rahl's Avatar Behold the Beard
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio XX Valeria Victrix
    But he wasn't homosexual...he was bisexual. Or did you miss the sex scene between he and Roxane?

    Anyways, homosexuality as we define it was not a conscious mentality back in classical times. Nowadays, homosexuality is weighed down and saturated in Christian "morality" issues. There was none of that back then.
    I hope I didn't add that into the article. I tried to make it historical only.

    Certainly some Greek cities deemed homosexual behavior inappropriate, but several prominent examples exist of the military elite of a society practicing homsexual behavior. Thebes and Sparta to name just a couple. Seeing that much of Macedonian military power was based off that of Thebes, it is not impossible to suggest that perhaps military homosexuality existed (although not to the same degree as in, say the Theban Sacred Band) in the Macedonian military as well.
    Interesting. What aspect of the Macedonian military held that sort of approach. The Companians?

    Frankly, I don't understand the discussion on whether Alexander was "straight" or "gay," foremost because those terminologies are post-Christian and did not have the same meaning in classical times, and also, if he was indeed homosexual or bisexual or what-have-you, how does that change any of what he accomplished? Would he not still be a great man if he were homosexual?
    Because some people make it a big deal. Since homosexuality is such a big subject today I thought it would be suitable to research and write briefly upon it. I wished to understand more about the man. History needs to be as accurate as possible, correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman
    @Rahl, Alexander could have been gay, but due to social taboos, he might have hid it.
    Hmm...perhaps but I highly doubt it. I think he would have hid it more for an 'operational' point of view. As in, he would want to keep his private life private and not to interfere with his campaigning. But that kind of goes hand-in-hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott
    Oh no doubt I agree it is an intresting subject, but some(not saying you) take it way to seriously.
    Agreed.

    Temur never lost a battle either, and fought signifigantly more battles, and had to create his army from scratch. Alexander was a very able general, but he also inherited the strongest military of the day. Im confident Phillip would have been able to defeate Darius as well. Even if Ceaser and the other did use some of his tactics that does not make them worse. He came before them and his tactics would influence later generations. Just as the people before him influenced him and the people after him influenced others after them
    Two different generals at two different times with two different types of armies, however, I see your point. I'm not an expert at all of Temur (not Yesun I'm guessing) but from what I've read Alexander did things that no other generals have even known how to do.
    Last edited by Lord Rahl; September 04, 2006 at 09:55 PM.

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  20. #20
    Borat's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Alexander the Ungay

    i always tought he was bio-sexual!! but wathever.

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