No wonder the Roman Empire collapsed.

[Hazzard]

When they start off 50000 florins in debt.
This seems odd to me that they are that poor in the beginning? Is it meant to be just 5000 florins in debt or start with 50000 florins? Because it paralyses you early on because it's difficult to build a force when you don't have any money in the beginning.

Is this fixed in a patch or hotfix? Since I'm using 2.3.2, which is the latest version, but that doesn't mean I've missed hotfixes.

[Robert Guiscard]

Nope, it's correct. The ERE is supposed to start out 50000 in debt to represent the historical situation they were in at the time. However, the ERE has the unique distinction of pulling in about 5000 florins per turn (all other factions, except maybe the Abbasids, go immediately into debt), so you'll break even in 10 turns and be in the green the turns past that. You have a decent starting army, more than enough to besiege and take Dorylaeum. Take your soldiers from Constantinople and Trebizond and merge them with your field army. The idea of Broken Crescent is to blitz rebels ASAP or to turtle and build your economy. Since the ERE makes a profit, blitz the rebels and then Rum when you feel ready

[VINC.XXIII]

This negative treasury seems only setted for the human player, because, ERE was fairly(so much) powerfull in my campaign...Turks got beaten in 30 turns, while Jerusalem conquered the High Mesopotamia(Northern Syria and soon) in the meantime.
I hope this will be fixed, with stronger rebels in Syria, apparently, they're not enough to handle Crusaders. I would like to see garrison scripts for rebels...

[Daerandir]

Just started my first BC campaign as the Romans. Wonderful job by the designers. The desperate straits of the ERE are accurate, and I spent the first several turns hoping that Rum would leave me alone. About 75 turns in. The Armenians are a powerhouse, and hold Ankara and other parts of Anatolia. Economics have continued to be a problem. I've finally been able to field a solid mixed cavalry/infantry field army and a secondary field force to deal with the brigands that keep popping up and disrupting internal trade routes. I've been raiding Egypt off and on to pay for economic buildings at home.

The 4th Crusade failed, but cost me most of the Tagmata.

The AI in BC seems smarter than the SS AI when it comes to siege warfare. BC besiegers seem content to wait out the siege period - forcing me to relieve, rather than waiting for the AI to launch an assault.

I'd say keep the ERE in debt. It makes fo challenging play.

[ArPharazon]

Keep your generals in the cities as governers and set your tax level as high as possible for the first few turns. You'll be out of debt in 7-8 turns. No problem. During that time send your military to take one or both of the rebel settlments in central Turkey.

[nein]

devour the nearby rebels in Anatolia, do not attack Caucasus regions from trebzond aka Ani as it tends to piss off the turks...

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

I'm just having trouble using the Roman soldiery properly. Just downloaded the mod, and four custom battles in I've yet to come close to not being totally slaughtered, let alone winning. The pike "formations" are absolute garbage, the other infantry aren't much better, and the cavalry? Ugh, I'm not sure how but a charge of four units of cavalry into the enemy rear accomplished nothing but the mass-suicide of my cavalrymen. Even plugging one end of one of the mountain pass maps and slugging it out against spear levy is failing me. Does anyone have any tips for making these guys pull more their weight?

[Legio XV Apollinaris]

yeah... i agree with that! played my first campaign as ere ... turteled for the first 30-35 rounds, builded up some economy and the seljuks of rum leave me doin' my things. in round 40 the armenians attacked me and took two settlements from me (seleukia and attalia), before i was able to build up a full stack of my elite units (cataphract cavalry, varangians and some medium spears and swords). in the following battle at attalia (me with my full stack against 1 1/2 stack of armenians) .. my varangians did a nice job by breaching into the enemy lines .. flanked the whole armenian army with my cavalry and charged into her missile units from behind and the sides! ... and now i was shocked ... lost 3/4 from my whole cavalry against light armored missile units! O.o

ok, cataphracts are slower as regular cavalry but they were the most powerful and the best armoured ones at this area .. especially in charge! losing 1/10 or perhaps 2/10 against missile troops seems for me fair .. but 3/4 is absolutly a no go! .. and also the charge itself was really in-effective .. from 120 javellins only around 10-15 were gone after the charge. seems to be the charge bonus are removed from this mod?!

checked the EDU after this and didnt found anything wrong here .. ok armenians and also jerusalem are bit overpowered ...
you guys should perhaps include the line "power_charge" into some cavalry unit attributes, or perhaps raise the charge.

you guys have some of the best looking units in your mod, i have seen so far .. but the unit stats are horrible! sorry!

[MIKE GOLF]

I had not been able to fight battles before due to an ancient (now deceased) computer. But now that I have a rather decent computer and a 27" monitor the detail present in the game is breath taking. I have fought several battles now with the ERE and I am inclined to agree that the Kataphractoi are rather weak. IMO they should have the heaviest armor of any faction (and also be the slowest cavalry in the game), and should be able to punch through an enemy line with relative ease using their many maces to smash heads in and basically steam roll through an enemy until fatigue of both horse and rider set in. I have never seen the "power_charge" attribute before and will go ahead and test it out later.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

If one reads the military manuals the Romans and Byzantines produced, you begin to wonder how they could have lost any battles. But of course they did, and what we read in the manuals is an ideal situation. A few cataphracts were heavily armoured, fought with discipline on occasion, sometimes they were well led but plenty of battles were lost. Also the Norman knights did rather well against the Byzantines in the period in question. I believe in a previous incarnation, the Broken Crescent Romans had higher stats but I seem to remember complaints that they were too strong. Now the complaints are about the Armenians and Fatimids. To me the Romans seem about right, at least in their long term prospects. It is also a nice challenge to play a somewhat weak faction. And if you do not like it, you can choose another faction.

[Captain_Aramsham]

The thing with the ERE is - and this is key - you have to take Dorylaeum and Amorium before the Turks, and what is more you *HAVE* to ensure you take absolutely minimal casualties in doing so. Ideally you would starve them out and the enemy wouldn't even sally. The problem is if your starting armies take too many losses the Turks will see you as a soft target and will flat out steamroller you.


Siege Dorylaeum, siege Amorium, starve them out if possible, if not try and let your bodyguards bear as much of the fighting as possible. You should have received at least four adopted generals by this point, which helps a LOT - try and have two or three BGs in each besieging army. Then once you have these two settlements, park all your good units in them and wait until you are in the black. I think in my game this occurred on around turn 12. All this time you should have been using your spy to keep an eye on what Armenia are doing. With any luck they'll be rolling up the Turks from the east. You'll have to use your own judgement on when to strike the Turks with your own forces. You're aiming to snag Konya and Ankara, at the very least, but if you strike too soon the Turks will turn round and hammer you, whereas if you leave it too late then Armenia will get them and by that point you may as well just hit escape and abandon the campaign.


Your first targets for diplomacy should be to secure trade rights with the Ayyubids, the KoJ and the Kypchaks. Don't even waste your time trying with Armenia or the Turks, they're not interested and you haven't any money to offer them to sweeten the deal. Once you are in the black you should be able to buy trade rights with Armenia (offering them 200-500 a turn for ten turns should do the trick) and if you're lucky they may even agree to an alliance.


You want to build up the Sea Trade buildings as much as possible, since you should have pretty lucrative sea trade with Egypt, the Steppes and the Levant. Send a coupe of merchants (by sea is probably best) to the sugar near al-Uksur. Even a low-grade merchant should be able to make at least ~300 per turn here and crucially, they are unlikely to get harassed by foreign merchants here.


I'll leave the battle tactics for other people to discuss, since I usually auto-resolve

[josa235]

I think the Roman Empire's coffers are inaccurate. If we think in the lavish expenses the court of Manuel I Komnenos could make, I don't see any historical reason for any debt, especially considering the prosperous economical situation of the Roman Empire in the 12th century. It isn't by chance Paul Magdalino uses the term "12th century Renaissance" for this period.

[Byzantineboy]

It will be different in the coming 2.4

[nein]

the debt is annoying but goes away quickly... especially if you sack the nearby rebel areas in western Anatolia. The debt exists to stop the player from lazily dominating... at least for awhile. The geographic position and wealth of the ere coupled with their ability to recruit a lot of different units means they get boring quickly when the rum seljuks are gone. You can make junk stacks of weak units and autoresolve your way to Baghdad and cairo.

[Boriak]

I just started playing a Roman campaign and didn't have a debt at the beginning. What version are you talking about?

Nevermind, I have an old version of the mod.

[Sanguinary Guardian]

Ok, here's what I have discovered, returning after several years back to BC. BC's ERE is a bit different than your standard SS one. It's not dependent on its heavily armoured units, because it doesn't have as many heavily armoured units from early to mid game as its neighbours do. What you have are medium spears and swords and light pikes with generally good morale as your infantry line. However, you are able to recruit one of the best Infantry Units in the game, right off the bat, an that's the Spatharii. These guys are awesome. You should put them where you think the fighting will be thickest and you can trust them to hold and overcome the enemy. Later on you get two really good heavy infantry units, the Vestiariai who should start replacing the Spathatoi and the Pelekyphoroi Axemen you should use for shock assaults.
You should ALWAYS use your generals aggressively in early to mid game, especially if you don't have access to the Stratiotai (Stratatoi) cavalry. The only other heavy cavalry unit you get, are the Anatolikoi Evgeneis, but they have a very, very limited AOR so they can't reliably form the core of your shock cavalry. You also get the useful Trapezitae (just try them against armour) and the also useful Hippotoxotai. Play to your strengths. If you face opponents like the KoJ, use your light horse to harass them and lure their cavalry in merry chases all over the map. If you face light and fast opponents like the Kypchak, don't expect your Hippotoxotai to overcome their Horse Archers. Use your generals and siege weapons. On the other hand, I believe there should be a light cavalry unit to bridge the gap between your skirmishing cavalry and the Stratiotai. I also think that it's excessive to get three cavalry units with the Citadel upgrade. I find that one of the three units should be available earlier, as your fist true heavy cavalry. If not, then Mercenary Norman Knights should plentiful in ERE lands.
And last, the skirmishers. That's the area I feel the ERE sucks big time. I get the design decision of the ERE design as something of a cross the heavily armoured KoJ and the lighter armoured Turks, however I believe their skirmisher line was designed for a more heavily armoured faction. Your main units, the Toxotai and the Peltastoi are just ok and that doesn't cut it. Menavlatoi are mid-late game unit and as the ERE, you are going to give your most important battles in the beginning of the game. Even AOR specific units would be welcome, like Akritai for the Eastern borders, and Trebizond Archers.
Overall, I think the ERE's greatest weakness is it's lack of focus (mostly intentional, I think) and the weird distribution of its units, both in AoR and the game period (early-mid-late).

[bigdaddy1204]

Just realised I posted in wrong thread. Post deleted.