Campaign
I have played NTW2 quite bit by now. The AI seems to act fine in Custom battles. Other than sometimes tropps run away when they get shot at, the AI it seems fine. So, did you script all the custom maps, and if you didn't, I think it the AI is smart enough that you could make a campaing. Woderfull Mod.
Last edited by Lord Zimoa; September 03, 2006 at 05:15 PM.
Campidoctor
Re: Campaing
even if we decided to accept the silly AI, it'd take us atleast another year to complete a full campaign with enough factions to make it fun.
we will gradually add new content such as factions, maps and historical battles until the release of MTW2. After that, we might decide to port all our work to the new engine and work on a campaign. Time will tell.
Primicerius
Re: Campaing
Then just use the Rome total war map and make 3 or something factions in the campaign....AT LEAST ITS A CAMPAIGN!!!!
Slitherine Games
Re: Campaign
See what happens when you just charge at the AI enemy. They will usually just run away.
Re: Campaign
That really is too bad if your not going to make a campaign, REALLY! Did anyone mention that this mod actually makes RTW battles fun? and finally adds some terrain worth fighting over.
I mean I have never been interested in the Napoleonic era more than another, but it seems to fit the Total War franchise so well through the mod. The unit and terrain art is fantastic and definately does the job of creating a new era.
This is unfortunate for me because I really am impressed with the quality of the mod, but have never been interested in replaying historical battles more than once. I guess I kind of expected a campaign because the origional NTW had one, and RTW is still using the same map of Europe.
The campaign of Total War will always be most important to me. It would seem absurd not to create a campaign when the quality of work is so incredibly high, especially when other mods are braving new campaigns, some with entirely new camp maps. If NTW2 was on the store shelf with a complete campaign I would gladly pay the full price of RTW again.
Obviously a year is a long time to work on a project, but it just sucks to have hung on so long for this, only to find out we will have to wait again for the release of the NEXT game in the series to see if we might one day see a campaign like that in NTW.
Full marks though, seriously the work is amazing. Totally captures a feel that no other TW has done, and thats awsome when your showing up developers with thier own game. But what a bummer, its obvious the devs themselves will never truly put in the effort to create the feel that is present in the NTW2 mod.
Such brilliant work though, very impressed. Just too bad about the camp, especially now that I have tasted the candy.
Last edited by barracuda au; September 04, 2006 at 05:54 AM.
Re: Campaign
Never too late to start making NTW2 t-shirts and figurines
Slitherine Games
Re: Campaign
Thank you for the compliments first, the reason you enjoyed the battles are that we scripted the battle, in other words we helped the RTW AI behave more like we want it to see it perform.
In MP this is also possible as here humans control the units and the maps really come to life.
Sadly we cannot script in SP Custom battles nor Campaign battles, so playing in here will result in even worse battles than in RTW:
-Units will stay in Skirmish mode when controlled by AI, resulting in units constantly run away like archers(this is hardcoded so it cannot be modded by us, only CA can help us with that)
-Units will start to stack on top of eachother after a while resulting in totally incoherent formations and units walking in eachother way and walk really like chickens without a head.
-Suicidal generals & officers, who are much more important in NTW2, so losing them early in game is even more deadly for the oposing AI and will result in easy wins all the time against the AI.
-The RTW AI is not capable of proper pathfinding so units controlled by the AI will not be able to cross bridges, pass through villages, occupy buildings, defend bottlenecks etc...on our custom build maps that have much more obstacles and features and are one of the reasons the battles in MP or the scripted SP historical battles are so much more fun in NTW2, compared to vanilla RTW.
-Cavalry tends to charge at everything when controlled by the RTW AI, eg. so Light Hussars will charge well formed infantry head on or Light cavalry will go heads up with Heavy cavalry, a thing a human player in MP or in our scripts will never attempt as in NTW2 this will result in utter defeat.
-Infantry controlled by the RTW AI will not form up and shoot or skirmish for long it will often bayonet charge straight away even when unsupported by other units, resulting again in easy victories and unchalllenging battles all the time.
-We really need a good animation importer/exporter to allow us to straighten out the problems we have now when changing animations, we have perfect new animations ready we cannot use now because there is not a good bug free tool available.
-The units when routing should not be like uncontrolled madmen they become now, easily butchered, but be able to reform after a while and perform rearguard actions.
....
I can give you many more reasons and examples but the point is, making a Campaign based on the RTW AI as it is now and without the possibility to mod some really annoying hardcoded AI parts a Campaign will never be of the same quality and fun you have now in NTW2. It is possible though in our minds to make a nice one, but then CA should open up the source code for us and help making some changes to the AI and alter unit behaviour like we would like to have it in order to allow Napoleonic battles to be fun against the AI.
Maybe CA will think about it or is already making a new engine and have planned for us a Napoleonic game to release in the future, who knows...
If they want to contact us however helping building a real Napoleonic game or expansion for them, the Lordz have the quality and capacity to do so and they know where to find us, hopefully.
Trust us when we state on the RTW engine, NTW2 will NEVER work in a Campagn, within our modding capacities and with the CA support we can expect to have now.
We accepted it, now you all have to accept is as well and trust The Lordz judgement on this matter. As I think you can trust us as we know what we are talking about.
LZoF
Last edited by Lord Zimoa; September 04, 2006 at 06:58 AM.
Ordinarius
Re: Campaign
Hello, I downloaded your mod, but I have not yet installed it, because I don't yet have access to it(a complicated matter).I heard your mod doesn't have a campaign, and these are the supposed reasons.So I have thought about solving these problems by testing.As I do not have yet access to your mod, I'm doing tests with some units that I have tweaked to represent the units of that time(stats) but still I'm guessing.I'm using ALX exe that has many times better AI than Vanilla one.
If you tag the units as heavy infantry, and have ranged weapon, but not stated as a pre-combat one.The units will not run away(they are heavy infantry) and will fire all or nearly all of their missiles before engaging in melee(they have non pre-combat weapon)Originally Posted by Count Zimoa of Flanders
Formations can be edited by accessing, I think it was called "Formations" with descr or export in the name, and editing them there.Its in the Data folder.
With ALX exe, generals generally don't charge straight in the line of pikes, in this case bayonets.Either that or do what Darth Vader did with some mod, give them skirmish ability.
Don't know about that one, YET.
I don't think it will be much of a problem if you use ALX exe.Ai with ALX actually TRY to flank your lines, and Cavalry avoid units that have a bonus against them.
This is the reason of weapon being pre-combat.With non pre-combat weapon, units will try to fire all the missiles like archers, but with heavy infantry they will stay and fight.
With ALX exe I have seen Archers and peltasts trying to aid their their line by either trying to flank, or just filling the gaps.
I can't help you with that, some other may though.....Besides, this is not Campaign problem.
Sometimes, if units have high morale, if there are no frightening enemies, or if there is enough inspiring trops around them, and if possible if that unit hasn't suffered too many casualties, units DO regroup.I have several times found my general fighting for his life because the unit he was chasing regrouped.Often my own units regroup, so i send them to fill the gaps.
This may be the consequence of using ALX though
Please if you can name some other problems, post them, I'd be glad to at least TRY to solve some of them :hmmm:.Also note these may not be the best sollutions, or if you have tried it please inform me.
Thanks!
Ordinarius
Re: Campaign
Did you see "Ogniem i Mieczem"/"Ognjem I Macem"/"By Fire and Sword" mod, they deal with the same era.At least the warfare is similar.
They have campaign, battle AI, units that shoulder their weapons, etc. etc.
Do you think you can use this to make a campaign of your own?
You can use their map, or some modded maps(like the one from Roma Surrectum, it needs a bit of geographical touches, but The Scaling is HUGE, and they have M2TW imported land textures), but mod the Factions to represent the factions you have in your mod.They also have some good ideas If you are making the campaign will you be using some of these?
Last edited by GreatOne; June 03, 2008 at 12:02 PM.
Primicerius
Re: Campaign
Could you not just give the AI on a campaign map 0 turn recruitment? That would make it even
To Calvin! True Friend!
Re: Campaign
Sorry gents, unless something amazing appens, NTW2 is not fit to be played on the RTW engine in a campaign. We are basically done with creating anything massive on the RTW engine and await the new TW game.
Devoirs The Empress
The Lordz Modding Collective
"The LMC expects every modder to do his Duty" - not by Lord Nelson
"Blow it out your arse." - Halie Satanus
The Eagle Standard
Ordinarius
Re: Campaign
I think I posted some possible soultions for the campaign bugs, so we just need campaign map, and factions in it.The buildings remain a problem though(a massive amount of work needed)
Tiro
Re: Campaign
the game is fine without the campaign im just glad they even made the mod its good to have a good gunpouder game until empire total war they should add the confederation of the rhine
Ordinarius
Re: Campaign
Ok, finally got the mod installed, and it'd very good.I tested some battles with ALX, and the AI handles them good.I repeat again, the Lordz should really think of making a campaign for their great mod.
One question, what did you did with the campaign so it doesn't show on the Single Player meny, and how can I enable it?
Domesticus
Re: Campaign
I think they should make a campaign...
They should also add an American faction to a future patch, so that you can kill them all with the Imperial Guard >=].
If they made a campaign that was sufficient and well ordered, then it would be a sort of expansion to Empire, maybe Empire would expand into Napoleonic territory for a sequel to Empire... Using some of the Lordz stuff. I also think that they shold really add chevrons, that way you can stop particularly the AI from running at an infantry charge.
Lovely stuff!
“My mother taught me never to throw stones at cripples. My father taught me to aim for their heads.”
- Ramsay Snow
Ordinarius
Re: Campaign
Infantry doesn't run if they are charged with BI, or ALX, I haven't tried RTW, but I think they don't run with that exe either...
What I'd like to know is how did they disable campaign?I tried doing some stuff myself, but the campaign option just won't show!
Domesticus
Re: Campaign
True...True. It is that period... 200 years since Napoleonic times... {Vive L'empereur}. I was at Trafalgar 200 celebrations, and I plan to go to Waterloo 200 celebrations as well.Never too late to start making NTW2 t-shirts and figurines
You guys could make loads of shirts and gear, then sell it at historical gatherings across the globe...Make lots of money
“My mother taught me never to throw stones at cripples. My father taught me to aim for their heads.”
- Ramsay Snow
Re: Campaign
Not possible, I am afraid, since it would be a violation of SEGA copyright. AFAIK modding itself is a violation, however since it doesn't hurt sales and actually improves the product, publishers allow it, provided the modders play by the rules. However, if a modding team tries to make money out their products, the publisher would be in their right to sue. They are, after all, using the publisher's technology (and in the Lordz' case also a brand name), without permission or reimbursement.You guys could make loads of shirts and gear, then sell it at historical gatherings across the globe...
Domesticus
Re: Campaign
Ah fooey...
“My mother taught me never to throw stones at cripples. My father taught me to aim for their heads.”
- Ramsay Snow
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