An attempt at explaining Armies on sea, Navies and amphibious battles.

[kamikazee786]

looking at a few other threads, there's alot of confusion in regards with how armies will travel over water and how Navies will participate in Amphibious battles.

So here is my attempt at explaining the above topics. I will give you the source of the info at the end of this post.

if i am wrong in my explanation at any point then please feel free to criticize me in a nice polite manner befitting of the total war community and also provide a source to back your claims up

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

firstly here are some things i want you guys to understand. The military of any faction in this game is made up of 2 unique and SEPARATE entities. The Army and the Navy.

The following terms have been put into bold and with different colors so that its easier to understand.

The Army

made up of various units and lead by a general. Carry their own Military Transports for use of travelling across the sea regions.

Military Transports

something which every Army can build if they desire to embark on the sea. They are not built for combat and thus are weak in battle.

The Navy

the Navy is made up of ships. Each ship has its own crew compromising of rowers and marines and these marines are based on the naval unit type.

Naval Marines

These are the units which make up the fighting part of any ship and it will be these units that will disembark off the ships when an amphibious battle occurs. The marines themselves excel at Naval combat but are not as strong as the Army when it comes to land battles. these can not be pre loaded on to the ships or taken of the ships on the campaign map. Rather they differ from one ship type to the other.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now on to business.

The Army represents your land forces and when it comes down to transporting units over sea then it should be understood that an Army will no longer use a Navy to transport itself over seas like it did in previous total war games. These two branches of the military are now totally separate and can not be used together except in amphibious battles which i will explain further down.

When an Army wishes to embark on the sea then it will create transports for each unit on its own in exchange for some movement points. These transports will be very weak as they are not made for combat and your army would be extremely vulnerable for attacks from the enemy.

This is where the Navy comes in. Your navies will be used as escorts for your Army transports due to their obvious superiority at naval warfare. Once the transports have reached their destination, the Army will disembark and the transports will disband.

Amphibious battles

now since you cant embark an Army on to a Navy, the units that can disembark from the ships in this type pf battle will be Naval Marines. These units are not pre loaded on to any navy and can not form a separate army on the campaign map. Instead they are charged with the combat role of any ship in the fleet.

Another thing is that just as an Army is weak on the sea, due to the weak transports that they are carried on, these Naval Marines are not as good as the army units on land since they are trained primarily for a combat role which involves boarding among other sea battle actions.

now i know what your thinking... you probably want a little bit of what im smoking but i guarantee you that i am not smoking anything XD

here is the evidence for my post, an interview from a Turkish gaming magazine with the campaign map designer ( Dominique Starr) himself.



You may hear some extremely good new news about diplomacy between allies in there which i will leave as a surprise for you but if you want to hear info about what ive said here today then forward the video to 8:06

i hope this has cleared some misconceptions up. If you already knew about this then good for you, i posted this thread for those who do not know

if you know more then please feel free to post a comment below and if you feel that something i said is not correct then please correct me with evidence

and please leave rep so i know my long post wasnt all for nothing

[kamikazee786]

thoughts anyone ?

[Raikou]

I kind of already knew this to a certain extent kind of self explanatory if you followed most of everything released by CA up until now but I do appreciate you clearing things up for those who may have not seen alot from CA. +rep for the effort !

[bob_2000]

thoughts anyone ?

I just wonder how many of us will eventually risk shipping our favorite legion without an escort... ...and see them swallowed by the sea!

[Destraex]

I think that transports cannot be carried by the army. The navy must provide them or you must build them.

[osros]

I think that transports cannot be carried by the army. The navy must provide them or you must build them.

I see your point, but think of it as the army is not carrying the transports, when they are at the coast and need to move across water they build there own transport ships and get it done. Since a turn takes a year I say it is feasible. However I'm sure in many cases it did not go down that way in real life. I too would prefer to plan for an invasion by also preparing the transport ships as well as the escorts but it is what it is.

[osros]

Naval Marines

These are the units which make up the fighting part of any ship and it will be these units that will disembark off the ships when an amphibious battle occurs. The marines themselves excel at Naval combat but are not as strong as the Army when it comes to land battles. these can not be pre loaded on to the ships or taken of the ships on the campaign map. Rather they differ from one ship type to the other.

Not quite understanding the last part there, but I think you mean the Marines with the navy cannot be unloaded on the campaign map as its own army, it can only be unloaded as a land fighting force as part of a combined land and naval battle if desired? This is what I understood from what I know so far.

[kamikazee786]

Not quite understanding the last part there, but I think you mean the Marines with the navy cannot be unloaded on the campaign map as its own army, it can only be unloaded as a land fighting force as part of a combined land and naval battle if desired? This is what I understood from what I know so far.

yup that is part of what i meant, the rest of what i was trying to say there was that like armies with their various units, Navies will have different types of ships and therefore the Marines they disembark on land will be dependent upon which Naval unit they come from

[Destraex]

I suspect you may find that troop transports may not even be in RTW2. I suspect you will just use military vessels to transport troops. i.e. the easy way out.

Just like lighter carthaginian vessels I doubt will be represented because they are more open and would require rowers shown and that no supply system that is workable by the player is likely to be implimented.
Too hard for the masses.

So what do total war vets have that is new to do?

[osros]

I suspect you may find that troop transports may not even be in RTW2. I suspect you will just use military vessels to transport troops. i.e. the easy way out.

??? The transports is a known feature and will be in the game, nothing there to suspect otherwise. As far as the easy way out troops on military vessels was done on the other TW games and no one complained about it, even unrealistic army numbers on one ship. So now things have changed somewhat for he better, far from the easy way.

[Keyser]

I suspect you may find that troop transports may not even be in RTW2. I suspect you will just use military vessels to transport troops. i.e. the easy way out.

Just like lighter carthaginian vessels I doubt will be represented because they are more open and would require rowers shown and that no supply system that is workable by the player is likely to be implimented.
Too hard for the masses.

So what do total war vets have that is new to do?

The fact that armies will loose one turn and then embark on transport is a feature that, as far as i know was never unconfirmed.

By the way, i don't see it necessarilly as the army building the ships, more like the time it takes to gather civilian ships (merchants etc) to transport the army.

[Anzy]

So my question will be, if you do have siege weapons and or horses on these transport ships. If you are attacked at see by a navy can these units on the transport ships fire the siege weapons or even the horses be mounted and charge an attack? Also if you are near land, can you disembark the siege weapons from the ship aswell as your Calvary?

[TotalWarker]

Do we know if the transports will appear in the naval battles themselves, or is it just the navy that is protecting them. I somehow doubt that we'll be able to use the army units during a naval battle (elephants, cav, seige etc!).

Would really like some more info on a few areas of R2 such as this, garrisons, how seasonal variety is represented, a campaign battle preview, agents, unit rosters....

[Keyser]

I don't know how it will be.

But i think the transports should be useless ships easy to sunk by ramming and unable to flee quickly enough.

Cavalry and siege units shouldn't be usable on transport ships. Logic imply that a transport full of legionnaris shouldn't be easy to board or even could try to board warships, but for gameplay i would prefer them as being unable to fight. Maybe making the ships vulnerable will be enough and we could let them board, but i am not sure.

[TotalWarker]

A bit like basic trade ships in empire?

[kamikazee786]

we will not be able to use Armies on the Sea. As i have mentioned in my first post, Armies and Navies are 2 totally different things.

You will not be able to use your land units on sea, rather they will appear in naval battles as be transports, each pretty weak at naval combat with the same stats as one another.

A bit like basic trade ships in empire?

yes that's exactly how they'll be

that's where your navy comes in. You need to make sure you send an Naval escort with the transports otherwise they will be sitting ducks at the mercy of the enemy fleets.

its a fairly simple concept once you understand:

Armies and Transports go together, with the transports being very weak and you being unable to use the units embarked on them to fight in a naval battle (since they're not trained for naval battles)

Navies and Marines go together, with the marines being the ones who will disembark in an amphibious battle. They will be a little less effective on land (since theyre not trained for land battles)

[TotalWarker]

Seems unusual then that you'd have 160+ crack troops hiding below deck when the transport is boarded.

[kamikazee786]

Seems unusual then that you'd have 160+ crack troops hiding below deck when the transport is boarded.

you do have a point there, maybe they can be used somewhat in defensive situations such as when the transports are being boarded.

But then that raises a question.

why would the AI board an enemy transport. I mean the logical thing for the AI to do in a battle against enemy transports would be to straight ram them and destroy the units on board.

why would the AI risk boarding and end up losing soldiers when it wouldn't really get anything out of it, you cant capture ships anymore .....

Unless.........

UNLESS................

UNLESS........................... you can now take enemy units as prisoners and decide to use them as hostages or slaves against another faction !!!!!

[ashbery76]

Seems unusual then that you'd have 160+ crack troops hiding below deck when the transport is boarded.

Gameplay.If transports could fight effectively like battle ships why would you build battle ships at all.Sometimes realism has to take a back seat.

[TotalWarker]

Gameplay.If transports could fight effectively like battle ships why would you build battle ships at all.Sometimes realism has to take a back seat.

Yeah I get that, and dont have an issue with it. Just throwing ideas around as we dont have much info on the topic. Devils advocate if you will.

I'm quite literally drooling over the scraps of knowledge at the moment