Transgender Bathroom Rights Bill Passed By California Lawmakers

[fkizz]

How does abortion affect your life?

Bad argument, I could also say how does thousands of chinese dying in an earthquake affect your life? It doesn't, yet doesn't mean it has no value.

[Himster]

Bad argument, I could also say how does thousands of chinese dying in an earthquake affect your life? It doesn't, yet doesn't mean it has no value.

Irrelevant, the discussion is about rights, not natural disasters.
Someone else's rights end where yours begin, allowing transgender people the right to use the facilities dictated by their condition affects literally no-one but those with transgender conditions. Removing these rights affects the same people in a negative way.

[fkizz]

Irrelevant, the discussion is about rights, not natural disasters.
Someone else's rights end where yours begin, allowing transgender people the right to use the facilities dictated by their condition affects literally no-one but those with transgender conditions. Removing these rights affects the same people in a negative way.

Not irrelevant. I just said that whether the law affects him or not is not a valid argument, for many events that don't affect you can be of importance, a natural disaster being one example amongst many rather than the prime example.

Since some christians believe abortion to be the same as killing, technically by their logic yearly on the globe there can die as many people by abortions as some event with high death toll, though I admit I do not have the numbers, but the yearly abortions if you count them as deaths can be a very big death toll, which by some christian logic that equals abortion to death is a matter of concern.

So for him it makes sense to try to tone down the said death toll by fighting against abortion. Might even be considered as an act of altruism towards the unborn on his eyes.

Basically masking "abortion is human rights muh feelings leftism is best : DDD don't interefere with others kthx women should abort as they feel like" without understanding how your opponent thinks like that will lead you nowhere.

So he isn't going to convince his opponent with arguments like that. Rather I should say it will reinforce his beliefs.

[Slydessertfox]

Bad argument, I could also say how does thousands of chinese dying in an earthquake affect your life? It doesn't, yet doesn't mean it has no value.

Earthquakes have nothing to do with rights.

[Sphere]

4. I could say the same about abortion but I will fight abortion until the day that I die.

Will fight to keep this from suffering...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay with increasing the suffering of this...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good to know.

[fkizz]

Earthquakes have nothing to do with rights.

Read the post above yours. For you the right to abort is for other people, the right to at will kill the unborn. You need to understand that some people will think differently from you.

"right" is a buzzword with a nice sound to avoid the ethical debate of what constitutes life and where it starts.

[Helel]

Read the post above yours. For you the right to abort is for other people, the right to at will kill the unborn. You need to understand that some people will think differently from you.

"right" is a buzzword with a nice sound to avoid the ethical debate of what constitutes life and where it starts.

Despite whether or not people think differently, it's the government who is in charge of laws pertaining to abortion, and those laws are informed by scientific consensus. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

[frozenprince]

If you don't like the non-fundamentalist laws here, you can move to a country where there is fundamentalist rule.

Like Iran. Or you can just move back to Africa, nobody is stopping you. I hear Uganda is wonderfully this time of year.

[alex man142]

Irrelevant, the discussion is about rights, not natural disasters.
Someone else's rights end where yours begin, allowing transgender people the right to use the facilities dictated by their condition affects literally no-one but those with transgender conditions. Removing these rights affects the same people in a negative way.

Abortion also affects those innocent unborn babies in a negative way.

Earthquakes have nothing to do with rights.

Yes they do. People here keep saying that I should't care if it doesn't affect me. People dying of starvation in Ethiopia doesn't affect me but I still care.

Will fight to keep this from suffering...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay with increasing the suffering of this...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good to know.

Yes actually. That first picture is a picture of a unique human with unique DNA and a future ahead of him/her. Not every trans person looks that innocent either. Judging by this, they are quite easy to spot http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1133831.html. By the way, who let's their little kid dye their hair purple? Those parents really need help.

And by the way, how can a little kid tell if they are trans or not? That's the whole point of my opposition.

Read the post above yours. For you the right to abort is for other people, the right to at will kill the unborn. You need to understand that some people will think differently from you.

"right" is a buzzword with a nice sound to avoid the ethical debate of what constitutes life and where it starts.

Nice, I'd rep you but I need to spread it around

If you don't like the non-fundamentalist laws here, you can move to a country where there is fundamentalist rule.

Like Iran. Or you can just move back to Africa, nobody is stopping you. I hear Uganda is wonderfully this time of year.

If I moved to Iran, I'd be killed. Uganda is nice but Id prefer a nice house in Karen, I love that part of Nairobi. Someday I'll move my family out there and live in peace.

[alex man142]

Despite whether or not people think differently, it's the government who is in charge of laws pertaining to abortion, and those laws are informed by scientific consensus. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

The government also says that Pizza is a vegetable That doesn't make it so.

I view the government as a needed evil. I would gladly revolt if I had to. The government cannot decide truth. The truth is that if you did not abort the baby, it would be born and become part of society. Abortion ends a life.

[Himster]

Abortion also affects those innocent unborn babies in a negative way.

If you could prove that embryos have independent metabolisms (a requirement to qualify as alive) then we'd have something to talk about, but you can't so we shan't.

[Helel]

The government also says that Pizza is a vegetable That doesn't make it so.

I view the government as a needed evil. I would gladly revolt if I had to. The government cannot decide truth. The truth is that if you did not abort the baby, it would be born and become part of society. Abortion ends a life.

Abortion ends a life that, in most cases, would have been better off not existing. The fact that a woman is willing to abort implies that the impregnation event was traumatic, or that she is unwilling/incapable of raising the child.

[alex man142]

If you could prove that embryos have independent metabolisms (a requirement to qualify as alive) then we'd have something to talk about, but you can't so we shan't.

That is arbitrary. If you did nothing to stop the pregnancy from going forward you would have a baby. It doesn't have to be 'alive' but it is still a person none-the-less.

[alex man142]

Abortion ends a life that, in most cases, would have been better off not existing. The fact that a woman is willing to abort implies that the impregnation event was traumatic, or that she is unwilling/incapable of raising the child.

Ever heard of adoption?

Yes, many women go through very difficult times. My wife and I volunteer at a local pregnancy clinic and we hear so many stories and these women genuinely need our help, guidance, and support. However, I don't think that we should end an innocent life.

Every life deserves to have a chance; from a downs girl to a man born with no limbs, every life is valuable. No life deserves to be ended just because they are imperfect or come from bad backgrounds. Every life deserves to be lived.

Enough on this though, we are WAY off topic.

[Himster]

That is arbitrary.

You can't "kill" what isn't alive. As it's not alive: it's part of the woman's body like a finger-nail to be removed at her discretion, it's her right, her choice, her body.

[fkizz]

Despite whether or not people think differently, it's the government who is in charge of laws pertaining to abortion, and those laws are informed by scientific consensus. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

I'm sorry to displease you, but here legalization of abortion was decided by a referendum, not by the government whim, because that decision was made fully democratically. So the opinion on the matter of every vote able citizen WAS relevant, regardless if you like it or not.

And heh, when the government is against your leftist hippie theories, you no longer think that the "oposing opinion" is irrelevant. Those double standarts.

If there is no double standart and you think people should abandon having opinion on what the state does, well then that kinda defeats the spirit behind a debate.

[Helel]

Ever heard of adoption?

Yes, many women go through very difficult times. My wife and I volunteer at a local pregnancy clinic and we hear so many stories and these women genuinely need our help, guidance, and support. However, I don't think that we should end an innocent life.

Every life deserves to have a chance; from a downs girl to a man born with no limbs, every life is valuable. No life deserves to be ended just because they are imperfect or come from bad backgrounds. Every life deserves to be lived.

Enough on this though, we are WAY off topic.

You would still force the woman to use her body in a way that conflicts with her interests, and, I don't know if you are aware of this, but pregnancy puts a lot of stress and wear on the human body, a process that is often permanently detrimental to their health and beauty. Besides, women are not on Earth solely to reproduce.

I'm sorry to displease you, but here abortion was decided by a referendum, not by the government whim, because that decision was made democratically. So the opinion on the matter of every vote able citizen WAS relevant, regardless if you like it or not.

And heh, when the government is against your leftist hippie theories, you no longer think that the "oposing opinion" is irrelevant. Those double standarts.

I'm a leftist hippie for disagreeing with you? I doubt that there are many people on these forums who are as far right as I am. Americans tend to entangle religiosity with the political spectrum.

And no, if the will of the people was that abortion should be legal, I would politely disagree, but I would respect the will of the people nevertheless.

[fkizz]

I'm a leftist hippie for disagreeing with you?

No, rather for defending (at least now) leftist related ideas.

And no, if the will of the people was that abortion should be legal, I would politely disagree, but I would respect the will of the people nevertheless.

I'm not talking about respecting the decision, I'm talking about having a personal opinion being valuable or not. (which you said it didn't matter if the state didn't agree with it)

[Helel]

No, rather for defending (at least now) leftist related ideas.

Since when was abortion an exclusively leftist idea? Anyone who is concerned about civil liberties, overpopulation, or social problems can weigh in on the merit of abortion.

I'm not talking about respecting the decision, I'm talking about having a personal opinion being valuable or not. (which you said it didn't matter if the state didn't agree with it)

I was implying that individual opinion is irrelevant to the implementation of the law.

[Col. Tartleton]

1. Africa is a beautiful land. If it weren't for unfair colonial governments it would be much nicer. Heck, my people have suffered so much.

Oh come on you're a colonist.

2. Maybe not, but there is something inherently wrong with it.

Well I think the best way to rebuild the civil society that made the US the envy of the world is to bring to settle all these nagging 1960s+ problems so that everyone can move forward. You've got to take the broken engine apart, study the contents, and then repair it.

The US is still the best vehicle in the world. The question is how to get its engine going. We have to accept that we're in a new generation of automobile and we need the engine that can fit our new needs on the same old chassis.

3. Possibly I do admit I may be stubborn at times.

You wish you were stubborn.

4. Those people sinned and I doubt that most were actual Christians but rather cultural Christians. I myself am an Ex-Anglican Catholic; I joined the catholic church because the Anglican church was becoming to liberal for my tastes.

Well that defeats my prepared argument. But I disagree, I think those people were true believers. Its just that they couldn't do it.

God commanded us to be more like Him, so that's what I will try to do.

The character referred to as God in your favorite book can be construed to have said as much.