Mod and some ideas

**m_1512** · June 29, 2013, 10:24 PM

Hi,

I am working on a titles mod on Crusader Kings 2. But there is a snag I've hit. Is it possible to create two landed titles alongside each other? For example, is it possible to create a empire title alongside the empire of Hispania, with more or less same de jure lands?

**absinthia** · June 30, 2013, 03:44 AM

de jure, not that i can think of.
besides the tree of holdings that make up a de jure realm there are titular and landless titles. they can have a capital province set for them. so perhaps it would be possible to set up a tree of titular kingdoms, duchies and even counties under a titular empire, each with a capital set for them in a coresponding province.
though i can not imagine how that would work out, if at all.
i am not sure wetter titular titles can actually have branches and if they would be considered part of a de jure tree, including CB`s and such.

**m_1512** · July 02, 2013, 07:10 AM

Titular cannot, I think. However, this is an unexplored topic. Is it possible to make two de jure kingdoms in the same the region. I think this is what will happen.

If the Spain has say two de jure empires - A and B. A is the default Hispania and B is what I created. So, if you create empire A, then in 100 years, emipre B's lands might be assimilated into A.

**absinthia** · July 02, 2013, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by m_1512

Titular cannot, I think. However, this is an unexplored topic. Is it possible to make two de jure kingdoms in the same the region. I think this is what will happen.

If the Spain has say two de jure empires - A and B. A is the default Hispania and B is what I created. So, if you create empire A, then in 100 years, emipre B's lands might be assimilated into A.

as i understand your intention is to make 2 identical empires and not simply split Spain in two parts, is that correct?
what i do not know is exactly how you think to use this, so i am more or less shooting in the dark.

if the goal is two identical empires i do not think it can be done by duplicating entries, which would most likely lead to instabilities.
perhaps it is possibly to use 3 empires, one de jure and two titlular empires. the de jure empire could have impossible conditions for creation, leaving the two active empires to assimilate provinces on equal footing. also events can be used to give claims, CB`s and insta-transfer de jure titles.

**m_1512** · July 02, 2013, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by absinthia

as i understand your intention is to make 2 identical empires and not simply split Spain in two parts, is that correct?
what i do not know is exactly how you think to use this, so i am more or less shooting in the dark.

if the goal is two identical empires i do not think it can be done by duplicating entries, which would most likely lead to instabilities.
perhaps it is possibly to use 3 empires, one de jure and two titlular empires. the de jure empire could have impossible conditions for creation, leaving the two active empires to assimilate provinces on equal footing. also events can be used to give claims, CB`s and insta-transfer de jure titles.

I think I'll have to provide some more information about this mod. I am going to create some kingdoms and empires which can be created by other groups. A small example is imagine an empire in Spain that can be made by Norse and/or Germanic states.

**absinthia** · July 03, 2013, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by m_1512

Titular cannot, I think. However, this is an unexplored topic.

indeed it would be interesting to know if a titular tree would work and to what effect.

i believe counties are the crux of the problem, as they physicly exist and is what differs between de jure titles and titular ones.
following your example of Spain i made a rough out-line of the titular "shadow" empire:

suggeste framework

Code:

e_spain_b = {
    color={ 233 200 20 }
    color2={ 55 55 55 }
    
    capital = 197 # Toledo
    
#    culture = norse
#    
    # Creation/usurpation trigger
    allow = {
        OR = {
            culture_group = north_germanic
            culture_group = central_germanic
            culture_group = west_germanic
        }
    }

    k_castille_b = { #Spain
        color={ 243 209 23 }
        color2={ 10 280 10 }
        dignity = 2 # Counted as having 2 more counties than it does
        
        capital = 199 # Burgos
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 250 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 25 # Crusade target weight
        
        d_castilla_b = {
            color = { 242 196 12 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 199 # Burgos
            
            allow = {
                OR = {
                    culture_group = north_germanic
                    culture_group = central_germanic
                    culture_group = west_germanic
                }
                    custom_tooltip = controls_burgos
                    AND = {
                        hidden_tooltip = {
                            199 = { # Burgos
                                owner = {
                                    OR = {
                                        is_liege_or_above = ROOT
                                        character = ROOT
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                        }
                    }
                    custom_tooltip = controls_valladolid_soria_asturias_de_santillana
                    AND = {
                        hidden_tooltip = {
                            198 = { # valladolid
                                owner = {
                                    OR = {
                                        is_liege_or_above = ROOT
                                        character = ROOT
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                            200 = { # Soria
                                owner = {
                                    OR = {
                                        is_liege_or_above = ROOT
                                        character = ROOT
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                            154 = { # Asturias de Santillana
                                owner = {
                                    OR = {
                                        is_liege_or_above = ROOT
                                        character = ROOT
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
    
    k_aragon_b = {
        color = { 166 98 22 }
        color2={ 30 0 0 }
        
        capital = 204 # Barcelona
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 250 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 25 # Crusade target weight
    
        d_aragon_b = {
            color = { 166 68 72 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 202 # Zaragoza
            
        }
        d_barcelona_b = {
            color = { 166 100 72 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 204 # Barcelona
            
#            culture = norse
#            
        }
        d_valencia_b = {
            color = { 48 167 45 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 171 # Valencia
            
        }
        d_mallorca_b = {
            color = { 68 126 72 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 827 # Mallorca
            
        }
    }
    
    k_navarra_b = {
        color = { 150 120 5 }
        capital = 152 # Navarra
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        d_navarra_b = {
            color = { 230 198 90 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 152 # Navarra
            
        }
    }
    
    k_asturias_b = {
        color={ 233 158 51 }
        color2={ 55 55 55 }
        
        dignity = 10
        
        capital = 155 # Asturias de Oviedo
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
            culture_group = north_germanic
            culture_group = central_germanic
            culture_group = west_germanic
            k_leon_b = {
                has_holder = no
                NOT = {
                    any_previous_holder = {
                        always = yes
                    }
                }
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 250 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 25 # Crusade target weight
        
        d_asturias_b = {
            color = { 233 188 91 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 155 # Asturias
            
        }
        d_leon_b = {
            color = { 253 158 51 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 190 # Leon
            
        }
    }
    
    k_spanish_galicia_b = {
        color={ 55 24 94 }
        capital = 156 # Coruña
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 250 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 25 # Crusade target weight
        
        d_galicia_b = {
            color = { 213 158 51 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 156 # Coruna
            
        }
    }
    
    k_portugal_b = {
        color={ 182 88 5 }
        color2={ 55 55 55 }
        
        capital = 160 # Lisboa
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 250 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 25
        west_african_pagan_reformed = 25
        
        d_porto_b = {
            color = { 182 108 45 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 158 # porto
            
#            culture = norse
#            
        }
        
        d_beja_b = {
            color = { 182 98 5 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 160 #Lisboa
            
        }
        d_algarve_b = {
            color = { 202 88 5 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 163 # Faro
            
        }
    }
    
    k_andalusia_b = {
        color = { 31 138 40 }
        color2={ 55 55 55 }
        
        capital = 181 # Cordoba
        
#        culture = norse
#        
        # Creation/usurpation trigger
        allow = {
            OR = {
                culture_group = north_germanic
                culture_group = central_germanic
                culture_group = west_germanic
            }
        }
        
        catholic = 100 # Crusade target weight
        muslim = 50 # Crusade target weight
        west_african_pagan_reformed = 50
        
        allow = {
            culture_group = north_germanic
            culture_group = central_germanic
            culture_group = west_germanic
        }
        
        d_cordoba_b = {
            color = { 60 180 12 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 181 # Cordoba
            
        }
        d_murcia_b = {
            color = { 16 229 33 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 169 # Murcia
            
        }
        d_granada_b = {
            color = { 40 150 40 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 180 # Granada
            
        }
        d_sevilla_b = {
            color = { 150 218 21 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 182 # Sevilla
            
        }
        d_badajoz_b = {
            color = { 138 243 51 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 184 # Badajoz
            
        }
        d_toledo_b = {
            color = { 212 151 12 }
            color2={ 55 55 55 }
            
            capital = 197 # Toledo
            
        }
    }
}

the base conditions for creating any of the titles is norse/german cultures. further conditions is to controll either capital county of the de jure duchy or all other counties within it, though conditions can be set to any county.
the titular duchies do not have de jure counties except for the one listed as capital.
the theory is that the hierarchy within such a tree will be considered de jure and make available the subjugation CB. and that there could be two emperors of Spain, kings of Navarra or dukes of Toledo at the same time.

i took the condition part from one of the caliphates and re-worked it. this is just a rough out-line and has obviously not been tested as a bunch of code is still missing.