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Thread: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

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    Default (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Primo Victoria
    A modification to Rome:Total War
    Introduction:
    Welcome. welcome, to my humble mod. I would like to say few words, before I proceed with the mod description, so bare with me, please. or, just skip the Introduction.

    So, I've played Rome: Total War almost since it's release. I love the game. The engine, might be "morally aged", how some people like to say, and the AI is... well, let's put it bluntly - dumb as a rock, but the game has a line of simplicity, that kept me from moving away for too long. I've played other TW games, but something kept me going back to RTW. But I'm getting away from the topic. The point is, that I love RTW. I have played it numerous times, gone trough all the campaigns, played several mods, and had a lot of fun.

    But i have always felt, that the Barbarian campaigns lacked something. Too much of the strategy was: Make unit X in large numbers, maybe support it with unit Y and then just crush your opponent or die trying. No real late-game options, and even in the mid-game I felt, like i have too little to do, too little to build, too few units for real tactical decisions in battle.

    Then came Barbarian Invasion, an i felt in love again. And the barbarians not only had shirts (something many people have a problem in vanilla), but they had 4th and 5th level settlements! And I started dreaming. Started dreaming of RTW with high level barbarian buildings...

    Somewhere around that time, i got really invested in game-design and writing. Not something you could live from in my country, but a great hobby... witch turned in to work, as the economy started falling apart, and there was no job for a 20 or so year-old computer technician. So, I had a lot of free time and internet. As i wasted said time, I found myself interested in creating the stuff I've played in the RTW mods. So I used google. And so i found TWC maybe around the start of 2011. And unlike most people, I started reading and obtaining the skills (as i naively thought) to do my own great mod!
    ....
    Yeah, we all know how this ends. I started maybe 30 projects, and i'm grateful to whatever deity stopped me from posting about them here! But i did obtain a lot of skill. Not something incredible but enough. And i started planing the original Primo Victoria mod, inspired by the campaign of an old game called Legion, where you had to conquer Itally starting with minimal resources and so on. Failed on the map, and by the way, i started socializing. This is the time, when i met ahowl11, Asgaroth, and all the other great people that worked on the first version of HRTW. Spent several mounts there - arguing with ahowl, discussing new units with Asgaroth, trying to set a clean way to do the mod, and not just the chaos i saw. Heh, good times. I miss them.

    However, as a friend of mine says - Life happened. And I was... away. I'll leave it like that. Actually i was away for only 6 mounts, but shame and other stuff kept me away from the TWC. And then I started playing RTW again, as a form of "my happy place". Don't ask me what does that say to me - my happy place is a place where thousands upon thousands die. And i thought: "Well, i don't really have the face to say "I want back to Asgaroth, and i do have a lot of free time on my hands, what should i do?"". Well, this is the result - a simple and Vanilla-styled mod, for people, that wanted some more form RTW, but didn't really loved the huge and time-and-thinking heavy mods like EB, RTR and so on. I should give credit to ahowl11 - his idea for HRTW, helped me to focus my design. The main difference was the focus - most people focus on "historical" or "insert-fantasy-or-game-of-choosing" mods. I wanted to focus on the stuff RTW had me - nice game-play and a LOT of Rule of Cool stuff.

    And so, I started work, and I intend to continue, until (God forbid) Life decides to happen again, I die, or finish the god-damned thing!

    PS: I really hope, i can keep the mod living trough the next year at least, or that Introduction will stay quite stupid.


    5th level buildings in-game:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Some toughs about the rosters:


    So, i think i found what i want as a map - Webbird's 270BC map. That aside, I've started working on VVVTW, so there will be some fun. However, since i'm in the philosophy that if you've got good design, a mod can be made for 1-2 mounts, i keep working on the design stuff.

    Rosters - vanilla.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Now, each faction in vanilla has its own roster, and in many ways its own feel, combined with the campaign position. I'll try to surmise them here, so that you can comment and point any mistakes i've made in them.

    seleucidare favorite for many people in PvP - great roster with catapharcs, legions, phalanxes and elephants. But they are expensive, in the campaign they have it quite hard, not to mention, that their territory is HUGE. Good luck getting those reinforcements from your capitol to the war with parthia... Not to mention, that if i say that the selucid have bad infrastructure, i'll be offending the bad infrastructure as a whole! They have no MIC's above militia barracks, almost no population, no roads, no armies and no money! But oh, boy do they have enemies! I still haven't seen them as a real power in my vanilla games.

    Macedons have good phalanx units, and quite the good cavalry, but lack ranged and special units. Their roster isn't that bad, but they start surrounded and with the brutii at the back door. Now, having all three phalangite units may sound nice and all, adding to the fact that you have great cavalry options (well... exept greek cavalry - they suck) but you get the brutii a few turns after the start. Have fun surviving. Yes, sometimes, they manage to spread out, to capture some regions... but even then, the romans crush them as bugs.

    GCS are screwed big time. They don't have pike man, do have decent infantry, but man do they lack anything else - bad cavalry, bad ranged units, and no pikes, so that the phalangites can crush them for fun. That said, they do manage to survive long time. guess it's because the AI doesn't attack islands well. In a way the hoplites are one of the best units in the game - they can form a phalanx against normal infantry, and they can fight in non-phalanx order against the phalangites... but they do lose to the elites.

    Pontus has one of the few really interesting rosters in the game. I actually like it a lot. Hillmen, may be week, but can screen your phalangites quite well. And really good heavy cavalry. Going to there is quite hard, tho. You start with two useless regions, and nothing really big to conquer around you. Yeah, remember those eastern infantry units, that die from almost anything besides peasants? Yeah, that will be your main infantry unit for a long time. Combined with javelin cavalry... If they survive, tho, pontus some times becomes a strong faction, conquering all of Anatolia, and some times even beating Armenia (what's with those two? Why do they rarely beat each other?) and holding egypt at bay.

    Armenia is similar to Pontus. And similar to Parthia. Mainly getting the bad sides of each. You do start with the painful to watch eastern infantry and hillmen, and in 3rd tire you get a spear unit. Well it is practically an Eastern Hoplite Analog (both in use and in stats), but you have something, that does not die if it trips, and does not run the moment someone sneezes. That said, it has short spear. Properly used pikes slaughter him. And after a while you'll get... Armenian Legionaries. Now, i have no idea who got that idea and from where. But as a 4th tire unit, you get a nerfed version of the 3rd tire Early legionary Cohort. Armenia has good cavalry... if you consider cavalry archers, followed by cataphract archers and then by real cataphracts - good. I personally don't get the cataphract archers.

    Parthia. Now, that is a slow game. Forget about assaulting towns. Everything can brake your main infantry units. Well... except the early infantry of Pontus and Armenia, so you can feel good about that... while watching how the phalangites slaughter your hillmen. Oh, i'm not fair, i know. Counting on the impressively weakened state of the Selucid, the Pathians can deal some major damage and take a lot of regions. And yes - with a siege assault. Mostly, 'couse you can throw away those easterns with ease, and even retrain them everywhere! The waiting to get the cataphracts is a long one tho. Still, best heavy cavalry in the game is yours. Deal with the fact, that even the Scythian axemen are better than your infantry.

    Now, all of the above have a peltast and a generic archer unit. Some even have slingers. Nothing special and honestly quite boring.

    Egypt is a power. Now, slide aside the main problems with it - that it looks a millennium older than it should, it does somewhat play as a hellenic faction - you have your militia, regular and elite spearmen-infantry (Nubian Infantry, Nile Spearmen and Pharaoh's Guard), supported with irregular troops - desert axemen, bowmen, slingers and so on. They do have an elite archer unit, witch is something different from the others, and they do have those crazy units as camel archers, chariots and so on, but still... oh, yeah, and they are loaded with money! And Kick some major ass, even with the romans around.
    Note: Well, they will be overhauled, but the vanilla egypt is quite the interesting to play faction.

    Romans are bad-asses that kick the but of any infantry in theory (and in practice, after the reforms), but cost a lot, have no real good counter to cavalry of any type and their garrisons are week big time. Well, the AI is dumb, but a player could find a way to exploit that and smack them around. The truth is, that they could die easy up until the mid-game, if the re weren't 4 of them and the hastati weren't second tire unit. The reforms give them some of the best units in the game. The idea probably was, that the civil war should weaken them, and the other factions can get stronger then, but it does not work. Even when the dumb AI controls them, the romans are a pain. After the reforms, they have one of the best archers, peltasts and cavalry units in the game. Just think about that. And remember - this is from around 18 factions (not counting the senate and the other two houses).

    Carthage looks somewhat good, but still has it's problems. Manly with infrastructure as all civilized factions. they have three tires of infantry, that i don't call useless, only because there is always the eastern infantry to hold that title. Iberian infantry are good light infantry, but they are no match for the hastati or any phalanx-capable unit. The Lybian Spearmen guys aren't that much better. Then you finally get something that's worth it - Poeni infantry and sacred band. Now, the sacred band is one of the best units in the game.but chances are, when you need it (and that is when you fight Rome) - you won't have it. Decent cavalry for a western faction, and elephants! Lots and lots of elephants!!! Use them wisely and you can compensate for the lack of good infantry. Use them not so wisely and you'll see what can an elephant do to weak infantry... in your own lines!
    PS; No archers. You know the secret of the bow (you have archers on the elephants) but you don't have archers. Don't ask me why!

    Numidia. Now if you are searching for a week faction - you've found it! You don't start with infantry, you start with skirmishers! You do however have some decent infantry (desert infantry). But to get really good units you need 4th level settlement. Guess what? Yeah, you probably wont get one, before the romans come and kick your ass. Decent cavalry, elephants and early archers. Not a bad roster, just not a good one, when romans are close early in the game.

    Thrace is a really strange faction. Good pikes, combined with falxmen and other good attack units. They compensate with infantry in place of the cavalry needed for the hammer and anvil tactics.And they don't really have anything else - infantry, more infantry and some bad cavalry and bad ranged part. They die almost always somewhere in the early game. Playing as them is fun, but the AI is horrible at controlling them.


    Now we star the glass-cannon section of rtw. All barbarian rosters are like that - high attack and low defense, witch gives you not much to work with. And makes one of the best tactics with them: harass, close in, warcray, charge. You'll have the superior numbers, so flank them as hell. And still, different factions have different style.

    Gaul. You have one of the best archer units in the game. harass as hell, killing as many as possible and then just charge. Great roster, with druids for balance of the bad moral most of your units have. You only need 3rd level settlement to get the chosen swordsmen and noble cavalry, and then you can go and crush everything around you. You start with good infrastructure for a barbarian faction, and quite a lot of rebel-space to expand in to. You can recruit naked fanatics, but don't rely on them much - they kill a lot, and die a lot. The gauls are balanced, standing up in archery, having good infantry and cavalry and missing only one thing - good spear unit.

    Germans - or how to play as a hellenic faction as a barbarian. No, just kidding. But you can use the hammer and anvil tactics quite often. Actually with you starting with a phalanx unit that is a valid tactic a lot of time, until you get higher level settlements. After that, you have the best shock infantry in the whole game - berserkers! Supported with axemen and chosen axemen, you can do a ton of damage. And to add to that - you have a crazy-good heavy cavalry unit, and chosen archers. Only the goddamed infrastructure stops you from using all that to rule the world. Well, that and the fact, that you don't have a lot of armor. You have none, actually. You do have the somewhat-comic unit - screeching women, that can rise your morale and lower the enemies. Oh, and they are a reall glass-cannon. Charge with them at the right time, and they do kill a lot. let anything attack them, and they die as peasants.

    Dacia - now, this faction does not look that much at the start, right? Well, guess again, that is one of the few factions, that even the dumb AI has difficulty screwing up! They have a warband unit - normal thing. And they have, right after it a Falx unit! Now, if you haven't seen what a falx unit does to anything, that does not hold a spear to it's face - go try it. And chosen swordsmen right after that. Oh, i forgot. You start with archers and then get chosen archers! What that means is, that you have a good counter of the fact, that your heavy attack units die from archers, slingers and the like easily - you just kill them with your archers. Oh, yeah, and they do have the noble barbarian cavalry, that kicks ass. So, forget about routing the archers with your own cavalry.

    Briton. Well, this is a faction a refuse to play. Tehy are just like gauls in the infantry - swordsmen (regular and chosen) and warband. Naked fanatics are replaced with the woad warriors that die from... well, anything. 4 defense. The barbarian PEASANTS have as much! Don't use them around thorny bushes - there is a chance they'll hurt themselves and die. Oh, and you have slingers and the dumbest unit in the game - head hurlers. They throw AP heads on your enemies. With 17 ranged attack. Urban cohorts have 18 ranged attack. Praetorians have 16. Also - you have no cavalry, but you DO have chariots. And simillar to carthage - you keep your archers for them and don't field them separately.

    Spain. Now, Spain is really a different faction from the other barbarian ones. Your infantry roster starts with two units, that can't hold a candle to the other barbarian ones - the carthaginian town militia and Iberian infantry. And then (if you are alive at that time) you get the goodies! Scutarii are basically principi with more attack, and less defense. They have the AP pilla as a ranged weapon and kick major ass. And THEN you have the Bull Warriors. And the rest is history. Well, not exactly. You have the round and longshield cavalry, but they aren't very good. And you too don't have archers. At least none of your units shoots a bow, so that we can assume, that Iberians, just can't make bows and arrows.

    Scythia. Now here is a crazy faction. You have only one infantry unit, and that's axemen. And then you have archers and chosen archers. And then there is the cavalry... You basically have all the types of cavalry, that you may want - you have missile cavalry (a lot of it), light cavalry, medium AP cavalry and heavy lance cavalry. You'll find out quickly, that two of those units are woman units. Interestingly enough the head hunting maidens are a good unit, that can cut trough armor with ease, and the noble women may have weaker stats than the noblemen, but are fast as hell.


    Rosters - PV

    1. DMB and EDU entries limits.
    Now, there can be 255 entries in the DMB, but there are 52 irremovable* ones - horses, ships, generals, standarts and so on. In vanilla there are 208 entries in the DMB. So, we have 203 (and could boost it to 210) available ones. I may be off the numbers with a few models, but there are things that can be removed from the mentioned 52 ones, so it's a good assumption, that there are 200 available entries, 47 of witch - free.
    There can be 500 entries in the EDU file. There are 265 in there now (if i'm counting correctly). So, we have 235 free. Should be enough, don't you think?

    2. AOR limitations and stuff.
    Well i didn't expect to have so much problems with designing it. Mostly the approach is somewhat fuzzy. I have a limit of 9 resources per region. So, i can not just make 6-7-8 big zones, and determinate the recruitmen by them. Well, i could, but then there will be a lot less resources in some provinces. So, there will probably not be a region, that has Italy, hellenic, gaul and punic hidden resources.

    3. Overall design of the rosters (notes and concepts).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    3.1. Unique and elite and hard-to-get stuff.
    Now, i don't like everything in vanilla. If i have to wait a ton of time to get an elite unit, i don't see why can't it be way better than my regular units. I won't be able to spam them, and make whole stacks of them - they are hard to get and harder to retrain. So let them be good. And i do mean spartan-like good. For now i'm certain, that there will be at least several units like that - spartans and first cohorts are a good example how it should work. And if somehow you manage to make full stacks of them and send the mto the corners of the world... why are you still playing?

    3.2. "Just" elites.
    So, remember, how you thought the triarii wore something good and rare? And how they joined the fight only where there is no other hope left? Yeah, in vanilla, they just chill on the flanks, maybe they chat about the next election or something. And when they actually engage some decent infantry, they die.
    PV will change that. They'll be stronger than the principes, they'll have an eagle. They'll be the force that you really use when there is nothing left. Not just moving anti-cavalry wall.
    And that goes for many other units. Every faction will have elite unit(s), that gives moral boost and is/are a bad ass.

    3.3 Turns in recruitment.
    Yes, there will be units, that require 2 turns to be recruited. The mentioned above elites mostly. this is to balance the campaign a little bit, and to prevent the quick fielding of stacks of 3200 spartans all around the world.

    3.4. Generals, officers, standard bearers and so on.
    Using vanilla ones for now. If they get a redesign it will be the last thing to be made.

    3.5. Earlier goodies!
    All the useless militia units will be gone, so that you get decent solders earlier, and not to wait almost to the marian reforms to get triarii.

    3.6. Mercs. Every merc is and AOR unit. They did come from somewhere.


    4. Some other notes:
    The population growth will be reduced drastically - getting anything over +3% should be hard.
    The happiness and similar bonuses will be increased, so that you don't have to exterminate the population of every city every 40 turns or so as in vanilla.

    The rosters one by one

    There are three types of rosters in the game, actually. There is the faction roster, the mercenary roster and the AOR roster. I'll populate the list slowly, when i finish the concepts and will try to keep a total count of models and units in the end. The numbers display the tire of the recruitment building, that gives that type of unit. For example 1. Hastati points, that the hastati will be recruited in the first tire barracks. And so on.

    Rome
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Rome suffers the most cutting of stuff. They lose the vanilla Town Watch, the Pretorians, the urbans, all the cavalry, excluding the equites and later the legion cavalry, also they lose the archers and skirmishers in the post-marian roster. Also, that is the only faction, that loses units with the marian reforms - others just gain stuff. Their base roster is:

    Pre-marian.

    Infantry:
    1. Hastati.
    2. Principi.
    3. Triarii.

    Ranged
    1. Accensi (slingers)
    2. Velites

    Cavalry:
    1. Equites.

    Post-marian:

    Infantry:
    1. Local Auxilia (same old infantry auxilia)
    2. Legionary cohort (the Early cohort in vanilla)
    3. Legionary cohort exp.1
    4. Heavy Legionary cohort (the late cohort).
    5. Legionary First Cohort (only in Rome. Elite, but one turn recruitment, 1hp)

    Ranged:
    1. Light Auxilia

    Cavalry:
    1. Legion Cavalry.
    2. Cavalry Auxilia.

    12 unit models, 13 units, 1 non-vanilla model.


    The Greek City States

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Nothing that crazy new, the greeks have good heavy infantry, that crushes regular infantry when in phalanx and is good when not in phalanx:

    Infantry:
    1. Militia Hoplites (vanilla with shirts on them)
    2. Classical Hoplites (vanilla)
    3. Heavy Hoplites (vanilla's armored ones)
    3. Heavy Spearmen (Thorakiti) (post-marian, javelin throwing spearmen)
    4. Spartan Hoplites (elite, 2hp, 2 turns for recruitment. CRAZY strong, small in numbers (base 30, against 40 for the normal hoplite))
    4. Hellenic Phalanx (Post-marian, heavy pike unit)
    5. +1 exp on all of the above.

    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts. (vanila)
    1. Slingers (week generic slingers)
    2. Hellenic Archers (somewhat week archers)
    3. Heavy Peltasts

    Cavalry
    1. Light Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Greek Cavalry (vanilla, with shield)

    12 unit models, 12 units, 2 non-vanilla models. Plus 12 models 13 units, 1 model from the romans = 24 models, 25 units, 3 non-vanilla models..


    Macedon

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Just as in vanilla, with small changes.

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen
    2. Phalanx Pikemen.
    3. Heavy Spearmen (Thorakiti) (post-marian, javelin throwing spearmen)
    3. Agema (vanilla Royal Pikemen)
    4. Hypaspists (elite, aspis, sword, heavy armor and thracian helmet, 2hp. 2 turns).

    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts. (vanila)
    1. Slingers (week generic slingers)
    2. Hellenic Archers (somewhat week archers)
    3. Heavy Peltasts

    Cavalry:
    1. Light Lancers (still without a shield, but gets the lance the companions and macedonians have).
    2. Greek Cavalry (vanilla, with shield)
    3. Macedonian Cavalry (vanilla)
    4. Companion Cavalry (vanilla)

    8 unit models, 8 units, 1 non-vanilla model (add the 24/25/3 from before and we have: 32 models, 33 units, 4 non-vanilla models


    Egypt

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    As with most the hellenic factions, the roster stays mostly the same... just kidding. But it is quite similar to the other Diadochi states. It does keeps two vanilla units. For the fun. Yes, my fun

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen
    2. Phalanx Pikemen.
    3. Heavy Spearmen (Thorakiti) (post-marian, javelin throwing spearmen)
    3. Agema (vanilla Royal Pikemen)
    4. Hypaspists (elite, aspis, sword, heavy armor and thracian helmet, 2hp. 2 turns).

    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts. (vanilla)
    1. Slingers (week generic slingers)
    2. Hellenic Archers (somewhat week archers)
    3. Heavy Peltasts

    Cavalry
    1. Light Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Greek Cavalry (vanilla with shield)

    Other:
    Elephants.
    Towered Elephants.

    4 unit models, 4 units, 0 non-vanilla models + 32/33/4 = 36 models, 37 units, 4 non-vanilla models


    Pontus

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Mostly vanilla, i have to admit, but with some tweaks.

    Infantry:
    1. Hillmen (vanilla, but with bigger shield and somewhat better stats)
    2. Pontic Phalanx (new units, statistically similar to the Phalanx pikemen, dismounted pontic heavy cavalry with a sarrisa)
    3. Heavy Spearmen (Thorakiti) (post-marian, javelin throwing spearmen)
    3. Agema (Vanilla Bronze-shields)
    4. Royal Swordsmen (Pontic) (new unit, heavy swordsmen, with ap javelins, big shields and capadocian armor.)

    Ranged:
    1. Eastern Peltasts. (vanilla)
    1. Eastern Slingers (vanilla)
    2. Eastern Archers (vanilla)
    3. Heavy Peltasts

    Cavalry:
    1. Pontic Light Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Pontic Heavy Cavalry (vanilla)
    3. Cappadocian Cavalry (vanilla)

    Other:
    Scythed Chariots (vanilla)
    Chariot Archers (vanilla)

    12 new models, 12 new units, 2 non-vanilla models + 36/37/4 = 48 models, 49 units, 6 non-vanilla models




    Armenia.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Armenia is an eastern faction, so there are the expected differences between it and the mostly hellenic factions above.
    It will stay mostly vanilla, and its roster still has no real weight.

    Infantry:
    1. Hillmen (vanilla)
    2. Heavy Spearmen (vanilla)
    3. Armenian Legionaries (vanilla)

    Ranged:
    1. Eastern Peltasts. (vanilla)
    1. Eastern Slingers (vanilla)
    2. Eastern Archers (vanilla)

    Cavalry:
    1. Horse Archers (vanilla)
    2. Cataphracts (vanilla)
    2. Cataphract Archers (vanilla)

    5 new models, 5 units, 0 non-vanilla units + 48/49/6 = 53 models, 54 units and 6 non-vanilla models.



    Parthia

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Parthia is another one of the small factions surrounding the Seleucid Empire. Contrary to popular belief, pathians weren't nomadic in nature. They wore part of the Persian Empire, then Alexander conquered them, and in the end the Selucid ruled them. They didn't adopt the hellenic culture as others. The roster is resembles closely vanilla, but there are some differences.

    Infantry:
    1. Eastern Infantry (vanilla)
    2. Hillmen (vanilla)
    3. Persian Infantry (new. Lammelar armor, big shield and spear)
    4. Royal Guard (new. Pikemen. Elite.)

    Ranged:
    1. Eastern Peltasts. (vanilla)
    1. Eastern Slingers (vanilla)
    2. Eastern Archers (vanilla)
    3. Persian Archers (new. shield and padded armor)

    Cavalry:
    1. Horse Archers (vanilla)
    2. Persian Cavalry (vanilla)
    3. Cataphracts (vanilla).
    3. Camel Cataphracts (vanilla).

    5 unit models, 5 new units, 3 non-vanilla models +53/54/6 = 58 models, 59 units and 9 non-vanilla models.


    Seleucid Empire.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    They had a lot of units in vanilla. They'll keep most of them, and get some new ones.

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen
    2. Phalanx Pikemen.
    3. Heavy Spearmen (Thorakiti) (post-marian, javelin throwing spearmen)
    3. Agema (vanilla Silver-shields)
    4. Hypaspists (elite, aspis, sword, heavy armor and thracian helmet, 2hp. 2 turns different from the others!).

    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts. (vanila)
    1. Slingers (week generic slingers)
    2. Hellenic Archers (somewhat week archers)
    3. Heavy Peltasts

    Cavalry:
    1. Light Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Greek Cavalry (vanilla, with shield)
    3. Cataphracts (vanilla)
    4. Companion Cavalry (vanilla)

    Other:
    Elephants
    War Elephants
    Armored Elephants
    Scythed Chariots

    2 unit models, 2 units, 0 non-vanilla models + 58/59/9 = 60/61/9



    Thrace
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Infantry:
    1. Thracian spearmen (new unit, warband-like)
    2. Falxmen (vanilla)
    3. Thracian Infantry (javeling-throwing medium infantry)
    3. Romanized Infantry (post-marian, heavier version of the thracian infantry)
    4. Thracian Foot Nobles (hoplite-like elite unit)

    Ranged:
    1. Thracian Peltasts (better than most)
    2. Archer Warband (vanilla)
    3. Heavy Peltasts (vanilla)
    3. Getic Archers (better archers)

    Cavalry:
    1. Barbarian cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Getic Allies (cavalry archers)
    3. Thracian Noble Cavalry (heavy cavalry, throwing spears before charge)

    11 new models, 11 units, 8 non-vanilla models + 60/61/9 = 71/72/17


    Dacia

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Infantry:
    1. Warband (vanilla)
    2. Falxmen (vanilla)
    3. Chosen Swordsmen (vanilla)
    4. Dacian Nobles (elite, big shield, heavy armor, longsword)

    Ranged:
    1. Skirmishers (vanilla)
    2. Archer Warband (vanilla)
    3. Chosen Archers (vanilla)

    Cavalry:
    1. Barbarian cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Getic Allies (cavalry archers)
    3. Noble Cavalry (vanilla)

    6 models, 6 units, 1 non-vanilla model + 71/72/17 = 77/78/18


    Spain

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Some what devastating roster. Can easily become very badass faction, but living next to both carthage and gaul doesn't give a good prospects for the future.

    Infantry:
    1. Iberian Spearmen (scutarii with spear, stats similar to warband, better defense but weaker attack)
    2. Iberian Craetarii (iberian infantry with javelins to throw before charge, very fast)
    3. Scutarii (vanilla)
    4. Bull Warriors (vanilla, elite, 2hp, 2 turns recruitment)

    Ranged:
    1. Skirmishers (vanilla. Note: they use carthage's model)
    1. Slingers (vanilla. Note: again, the vanilla cathaginian model, and not a barbarian one)
    2. Iberian Archers (new. Standard archers)

    Cavalry
    1. Light Cavalry (new. scirmishing cavalry)
    2. Iberian lancers (round shields with lance and good charge)
    3. Longshield cavalry (medium cavalry, vanilla model with bigger shield)

    Other:
    Naked Fanatics

    10 models, 10 new units, 3 non-vanilla models + 77/78/18 = 87/88/21





    Gaul

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Beware of the gauls. Their roster is very strong and agile, having both strong attacking and decent defensive units. It was a great fun to design them, and they are my "designer pet" in a way.

    Infantry:
    1. Gallic Warband (vanilla, but with the hexagonal "coffin-type" shield)
    2. Gallic Sworsmen (new*. longsword, leather armor, thueros shield)
    3. Gallic Chosen Spearmen (new. thueros, spear, chain-mail, helmet)
    4. Gallic Chosen Swordsmen (new. based on the vanilla model, but with thueros shield and longsword)

    Ranged:
    1. Gallic Skirmishers (vanilla)
    1. Gallic Slingers (new, based on the skirmisher model)
    2. Gallic Archers (weakened Forester Warband, vanilla model)
    3. Chosen Archers (vanilla)

    Cavalry
    1. Gallic Cavalry (new, skirmishing cavalry)
    2. Barbarian Cavalry (vanilla)
    3. Noble Cavalry (vanilla)

    Other:
    Naked Fanatics (vanilla)
    Druids (remodeled*)

    8 models, 8 units, 3 models + 87/88/21 = 95/96/24

    * new model, but since it replaces 100% the vanilla one, i don't count it.


    Germans

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In the thick forests of Germania live hardy people, who love to fight. Axes and AP units en masse...

    Infantry:
    1. Germanic warband (new*. Warband unit, longshield)
    2. Axemen (vanilla + AP)
    3. Chosen axemen (vanilla)
    4. Warlord's Chosen (vanilla, heavy axemen, AP, throwing a francisca before charge, elite)

    Ranged
    1. Germanic Skirmishers
    2. Germanic Archers (new, spear as second weapon)
    3. Chosen Archers (vanilla)

    Cavalry
    1. Germanic Light Cavalry (new, skirmishing cavalry)
    2. Barbarian cavalry (vanilla)
    3. Noble Cavalry (vanilla)
    4. Gothic Cavalry (vanilla)

    Other:
    Screeching Women (screechers, not so glassy as vanilla)
    Naked Fanatics (vanilla)
    Berserkers (vanilla)

    9 models, 10 units, 3 new models + 95/96/24 = 104/106/27




    Scythia
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Nomadic people, tons of cavalry, some infantry and archers.

    Infantry:
    1. Warband (vanilla, retextured dacian one)
    2. Axemen (vanilla + AP)

    Ranged:
    1. Archer Warband (vanilla)
    2. Chosen Archers (vanilla)

    Cavalry.
    1. Scythian Horse Archers (vanilla)
    2. Barbarian Cavalry (vanilla)
    3. Scythian Noble Archers (vanilla)
    3. Scythian Lancers (vanillas Scythian Nobles)

    Other:
    Scythian Women (vanilla model, normal number of units in it)
    Head Hunting Maidens (vanilla)

    5 models, 5 units, 0 new models + 104/106/27 = 109/111/27


    Carthage

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Infantry:
    1. African Infantry - (new, basic spearmen unit, nothing special)
    2. Iberian Craetarii - (same as Spain)
    3. Libyan Spearmen (vanilla model, better stats)
    3. Iberian Scutarii (as spain)
    4. Poeni Infantry (vanilla)
    5. Sacred band (vanilla, elite)

    Ranged:
    1. Skirmishers (as spain)
    2. Slingers (as spain)
    2. Numidian Javelinmen (new)
    3. Archers (new, normal archers)

    Cavalry:
    1. Numidian Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Iberian lancers (round shields with lance and good charge)
    3. Longshield cavalry (medium cavalry, vanilla model with bigger shield)
    4. Sacred Band Cavalry (vanilla)

    Other:
    Elephants
    War Elephants
    Armored Elephants

    7 models, 7 units, 2 new models +
    109/111/27 = 116/118/29




    Numidia
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Infantry:
    1. African infantry (as Carthage)
    2. Desert Infantry (vanilla)
    3. Numidian Legionaries (early leg. cohort)

    Ranged:
    1. Numidian Javelinmen (as Carthage)
    1. Slingers (vanilla, as carthage)
    2. Archers (vanilla, same model as carthage)

    Cavalry:
    1. Numidian Cavalry (vanilla)
    2. Numidian Camel Riders (vanilla)
    3. Longshield cavalry (medium cavalry, vanilla model with bigger shield)

    Other:
    Elephants
    War Elephants

    2 models, 3 units, 0 new models + 116/118/29 = 118/121/29




    Other features and specs for the mod?

    Yes, a few.
    1. The mod requires BI, since it uses a ton of stuff from it for the buildings. Also in later versions, hoplites will lose the phalanx ability and will fight with overhand animation and in shield wall. Other units may also get that ability. I hope, that I will have enough free slots in the EDU, so that i can make the barbarians able to horde.

    2. I'll probably won't use any graphic enhancing mods and stuff, mostly because my modeling and 2d art skills are so bad, that the units will just look stupid.

    3. I probably won't use anything far-off the vanilla stuff - 4/8/12/24/... turns per year, complex scripts and so on. If there will be any scripts, there will be only one - a script to set more specific conditioning for the Marian Reforms.

    Team:

    Project Leader, Coder and 3d modeler:
    hameleona

    2D artist
    Kirila the Brave Kitten
    Last edited by hameleona; August 05, 2013 at 12:11 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    The Greek City States

    Infantry:
    1. Militia Hoplites

    2. Classical Hoplites

    3. Heavy Hoplites

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Hellenic Phalanx (post-marian)



    4. Spartan Hoplites



    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts

    1. Slingers

    2. Hellenic Archers

    3. Heavy Peltasts



    Cavalry
    1. Light Cavalry

    2. Greek Cavalry


    Other:
    Generals bodyguard (early):


    Generals bodyguard (late):




    Kingdom of Macedon

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen

    2. Phalanx Pikemen

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Royal Pikemen

    4. Hypaspists


    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts.

    1. Slingers

    2. Hellenic Archers

    3. Heavy Peltasts


    Cavalry:
    1. Light Lancers

    2. Greek Cavalry

    3. Macedonian Cavalry

    4. Companion Cavalry


    Other:
    Generals bodyguard (early):



    Generals bodyguard (late):


    Kingdom of Egypt

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen

    2. Phalanx Pikemen

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Agema

    4. Hypaspists


    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts

    1. Slingers

    2. Hellenic Archers

    3. Heavy Peltasts


    Cavalry
    1. Light Cavalry

    2. Greek Cavalry


    Other:

    Elephants

    Towered Elephants


    Armored Elephants

    Generals bodyguard (early):

    Generals bodyguard (late):



    Seleucid Empire

    Infantry:
    1. Levy Pikemen

    2. Phalanx Pikemen

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Silver-shield phalangites

    4. Hypaspists


    Ranged:
    1. Peltasts

    1. Slingers

    2. Hellenic Archers

    3. Heavy Peltasts


    Cavalry:
    1. Light Cavalry

    2. Greek Cavalry

    3. Cataphracts


    Other:
    Elephants

    War Elephants

    Armored Elephants
    Generals bodyguard (early)

    Generals bodyguard (late)


    Kingdom of Pontus

    Infantry:

    1. Eastern Infantry

    1. Hillmen

    2. Pontic Phalanx

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Bronze-shield Pikemen

    4. Pontic Swordsmen


    Ranged:
    1. Eastern Peltasts.


    1. Eastern Slingers

    2. Eastern Archers


    Cavalry:
    1. Pontic Light Cavalry

    2. Pontic Heavy Cavalry

    3. Cappadocian Cavalry


    Other:
    Scythed Chariots

    Chariot Archers


    Generals bodyguard (early)

    Generals bodyguard (late)
    Last edited by hameleona; August 22, 2013 at 10:42 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Can I join this project? I have good ideas, and my Mundus Magnus mod is similar to this.

    As for the map. How far east do you want it to extend?

    For factions:
    Unified Rome is great.
    How about a Western Greek Faction? Epirus, Syracuse, Massilia. I got that idea from RTH
    The balkans and Greece are too cramped for Illyria, but if you want them I say they are a good option.
    The Boii could be a good barbarian faction. They would have Bononia in Northern Italy and then have land between Germany and Pannonia.
    Bosporans would be fun.
    Nabataeans? Saba is too far south to do anything IMHO.

    Basically stay away from factions that will give you a copy/paste roster of an existing faction. Epirus alone and Pergamum are copies of Macedon and Seleucid. Bactria can be a copy of Seleucid. Arverni, Belgae are copies of Gauls and Britons.

    Units look good, and I believe you should use units that you made from HRTW.

  4. #4

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Kingdom of Pontus

    Infantry:

    1. Eastern Infantry

    1. Hillmen

    2. Pontic Phalanx

    3. Thorakiti

    3. Bronze-shield Pikemen

    4. Pontic Swordsmen


    Ranged:
    1. Eastern Peltasts.


    1. Eastern Slingers

    2. Eastern Archers


    Cavalry:
    1. Pontic Light Cavalry

    2. Pontic Heavy Cavalry

    3. Cappadocian Cavalry


    Other:
    Scythed Chariots

    Chariot Archers


    Generals bodyguard (early)

    Generals bodyguard (late)
    Last edited by hameleona; August 22, 2013 at 10:41 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Okay, well the Mundus Magnus map is the best one for a vanilla mod, but I'd take out those fringe settlements and add settlements near the center of the map. That was something I planned on doing with my MM mod anyways. Also, there are a lot of nice vanilla units in my mod that you can use. Mostly redone textures. So giving Levy Pikemen to Egypt etc.

    I say Bosporan Kingdom, Celt-Iberians and the Mauryans. Gives balance in all areas of the map

  6. #6

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    As allways in-game screens of the new units:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    If i use an MM map it will probably be the most basic version - i.e. only the map, with nothing moded with it. The basic reason for that is, that I don't want to merge 20 txt files, only to remove most of the mod features anyway. So, i'm still not certain for the map, probably MM 1.2 (here) for that reason only.

    As for factions, - as i said, after i choose the map, and finish the current work, i'll think about them.

    After a first look at the map, i will probably cut the most eastern part so that it looks something like this:

    But, honestly speaking, i don't know if i can do that, so i may not be able to do it. In any case, i will cut some regions from the east (or just make them bigger), so that i can add at least 1 to illyria, 1 in thrace and possibly bononia in itally. That said, an arab faction will be probably one of the new additions. That said, i see no reason of adding another gaul faction (since they'll have almost 1:1 the same units as the original. Maybe Illyria, and not Epiros and that is it for now. And as i allways said - it's a work in progress, so nothing is 100% certain.
    Last edited by hameleona; July 01, 2013 at 01:28 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    I know this is your mod, and you may do whatever you want with it. But I strongly suggest the following before continuing:

    1. Download and install makanyanes neutralised senate mod. It renames the senate faction to slavs internally and it gets rid of any bugs that occur when changing the senate into another faction.
    2. Download and install Mundus Magnus 4.0. It is the same as 1.2 but less bugs. Make sure you look through the MM files and rename any 'senate' entry to slavs before merging with your mod.
    3. Download and install player1's Bug Fixer mod. This mod fixes bugs that CA never got around to.
    4. When editing the map, simply open up map_regions.tga and color in the undesired portion of the map one color and name it terra_incognita, it will be the area that the ai do not attack (vanilla's Themiskyra) and it will free up the map for more regions. I suggest blotting out India, the Sahara, most of Arabia, and the northern most part of Russia.

    #4 is merely what I would do. 1-3 I strongly suggest

  8. #8

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    1. I can manually do that (made it 2 or 3 times already for fun even).
    2. I'll look it and see if it suits my needs.
    3. That i will probably do. Have to see what it actually does first, tho
    4. That is what i'll do if i can't cut the map properly.

    But, as i said, i'll think about those things, when i finish v0.1. After that i may even start a clean mod-folder and just redo all the things i have done till now.

  9. #9
    Kirila the Kitten's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Hey Sir, only few stuff to tell you I need. (YODA )
    Look over Macedonec's Macedon Expansion, it uses MM , adds new units and has a kind of AOR but I feel you can do domething different. Also it seems you know how to do UI's ,that's great since no many people can do this. Also, something I MUST ask you and you MUST do it! Put shirts on the damn barbarians! Especially dacians and thracians since they weren't so barbarian. Also , it seems you know some basic modelling. I managed to do a shield once in 3DSMAX but I don't know lots of other things so I gave up.
    You may join me later in my project Evropa Svrrectum, when I'll need a skinner, I think you can do that too!
    Good luck with your mod, and don't forget! Put shirts on the Barbarians!

  10. #10
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Really nice!
    One question: why Primo Victoria? Also it's incorrect (I study latin) because it should be Prima Victoria.

  11. #11

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirila the Brave Kitten View Post
    Hey Sir, only few stuff to tell you I need. (YODA )
    Look over Macedonec's Macedon Expansion, it uses MM , adds new units and has a kind of AOR but I feel you can do domething different. Also it seems you know how to do UI's ,that's great since no many people can do this. Also, something I MUST ask you and you MUST do it! Put shirts on the damn barbarians! Especially dacians and thracians since they weren't so barbarian. Also , it seems you know some basic modelling. I managed to do a shield once in 3DSMAX but I don't know lots of other things so I gave up.
    You may join me later in my project Evropa Svrrectum, when I'll need a skinner, I think you can do that too!
    Good luck with your mod, and don't forget! Put shirts on the Barbarians!
    I didn't really get all of that...
    1. Looked up that mod, and i don't really see much common between my idea and it...
    2. Shirtless barbarians are so enigmatic for vanilla, so most of them will stay. Not to mention, that even EB has a few, so no, i won't redo every barbarian unit, just to give them shirts. Maybe, if in a later version if i start to unite models, so that i can free dmb slots, there will be more shirts, but i doubt it. The skirmishers for example will stay shirtless. I'll think about the others, when i finish version 0.1 and start the bigger work.
    3. Define "skinner" Im quite bad at 2d and somewhat manage to do some basic 3d art, and before i know exactly what needs to be done - i don't really know if i can do it.
    4. Thanks for the wishes.

    small update - making barbarian archers for spain and thinking of enlarging the shield of the long-shield cavalry. Also
    Last edited by hameleona; July 01, 2013 at 09:15 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Underking View Post
    Really nice!
    One question: why Primo Victoria? Also it's incorrect (I study latin) because it should be Prima Victoria.
    Well, mostly because of this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJAwCBbnuc
    and this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWwSsCP6KI


  13. #13
    Foederatus
    Join Date
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    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Ok.

  14. #14

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    I understand about the barbarians not having shirts, but Militia Hoplites do need them

  15. #15
    Kirila the Kitten's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod. Researcher needed!

    Ok, you got me with the awesome manly song, good luck mate, also Macedonec made a somekind of overhaul and also kept the vanilla feel. If you wish I can make skins for you.

  16. #16

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Well, let's say, that i'll think about it - i didn't want to touch anything but the barbarian rosters for now. Witch reminds me:

    The last spanish unit:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    So, the new barbarian rosters for now:
    Scytia:


    Dacia:

    Spain:

    Gaul:



    Factions left: Britons and Germans.
    Other stuff to do - descriptions for some of the new units.

  17. #17
    Kirila the Kitten's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Okay son, please, put shirts on the Dacian Warband and Dacian Archers... I will be verry happy. If you don't have time, I'd be happy to do this for you!

  18. #18

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Why so keen on those shirts?
    Please understand, that if i decide to give them shirts, i have to not only re-texture them, but also make new UI's, see if that shirt actually fits them and so on. I'm not saying i won't do it, it's just not a priority for now.

  19. #19

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Thinking of units for Britons and Germans..

    For Britons, how about, Archer Warband, Chosen Archer Warband, Naked Fanatics, Barbarian Cavalry
    For Germans, Warband, Archer Warband, Golden Band (from BI, the guys with two axes)

    Also for Gauls, Britons, Germans - Skirmisher Cavalry
    For Dacians - Horse Archers

  20. #20

    Default Re: (WIP) Primo Victoria - vanilla mod

    Sketch plan for Britons and Germans:

    Britons:
    Infantry:

    Tire 1 - Warband
    Tire 2 - Sword Warband
    Tire 3 - Chosen Swordsmen

    Ranged:

    Tire 1 - Skirmishers
    Tire 2 - Slingers
    Tire 3 - Archer Warband

    Cavalry:

    Tire 1 - Barbarian Cavalry
    Tire 2 - Barbarian Cavalry exp 1
    Tire 3 - Noble cavalry

    Others:
    Chariots as in Vanilla.
    Druids
    Naked Fanatics (have to see if they can even build that temple)

    A little boost for them is that they'll get 3rd level Shipyards.

    Germans:

    Infantry:

    Tire 1 - German Spear Warband (yes, the vanilla german phalanx)
    Tire 2 - Axemen
    Tire 3 - Chosen axemen
    Tire 4 - Warlords Chosen (armored axemen - think i'll just dismount the Teutonic Riders and give them an axe)

    Ranged:

    Tire 1 - Skirmishers
    Tire 2 - Archer Warband
    Tire 3 - Chosen Archers

    Cavalry:

    Tire 1 - Barbarian cavalry
    Tire 2 - Noble cavalry
    Tire 3 - Teutonic Riders (moved from the temple to the stables)

    Others:
    Naked Fanatics
    Berserkers
    Screeching Women (i'll redo them to be as the teutonic women described - light archers, no fire arrows, but with screeching)

    Removed the head hurlers - just because I hate that unit!

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