The historical pronunciation of Leonidas

[kikokyle]

My friend is trying to tell me that pronouncing Leonidas his own way (like in '300') is his opinion, after I've shown him several sources.
I show him several sources and he still wishes to believe the 300 way, it's just ignorance.
Here's the copy and paste of my message to him:

BTW
Λεωνίδης
LAY-OH-KNEE-DUSS
Or often LEE-ONI-DUSS
http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=leonidas
^Here's a verbal example
And here's a historical take on the Battle of Thermopylae, where people on the history channel say Leonidas a lot (includes footage from Rome Total War for dramatic purposes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhgMn9rvn_Y

(Used sources on Google to verify how to pronounce his name.)

And I must add, even if his way is correct, he still fails to see any amount of proof in my sources I gave, and just blatantly ignores them.

[hellheaven1987]

It is not first time English has weird pronunciation of foreign words, for example "Caesar".

[Hobbes]

English is well known for butchering other languages
What happened to the p's in pterosaur and Ptolemy, people?! Get your **** straight! Seriously though, all languages alter words one way or the other to make them comptible with their well established rules of pronunciation and spelling.

[hellheaven1987]

Another example is "China"; the right pronunciation is "Chee-Na" but English has to butcher it (by the way French pronounce it as "Chee-Ne").

[Hobbes]

The French just pronounce it /ʃin/. China and French "Chine" are derived from a Sanskrit word, which is thought to derive from the name of one of the ancient dynasties, namely the Qin.

[hellheaven1987]

The French just pronounce it /ʃin/. China and French "Chine" are derived from a Sanskrit word, which is thought to derive from the name of one of the ancient dynasties, namely the Qin.

The Sanskrit word actually pronounce as "Sina", and in fact is a geographic description of China.

[Condottiere 40K]

China tones better.

[Admiral Piett]

English is well known for butchering other languages
What happened to the p's in pterosaur and Ptolemy, people?! Get your **** straight! Seriously though, all languages alter words one way or the other to make them comptible with their well established rules of pronunciation and spelling.

I actually applaud English for ditching the attempt to say two completely different consonants together. I could never imagine trying to pronounce "Puh-Tohl-eh-mee". However, I hate the overuse of the 'c' as an 's' sound. The 'k' sound of Greek does actually sound better on the ears.

[neoptolemos]

Attic Greek: Leonides / Λεωνίδης λέων (lion) -ίδης ( son of )
Pronounced as leh- ohh-ne- thees ( th as in the)
Doric and Northwestern Greek including Macedonian : Leonidas / Λεωνίδας
Pronounciation: leh-ohh-ne-thas

[Col. Tartleton]

It is not first time English has weird pronunciation of foreign words, for example "Caesar".

I feel like when properly applying the English language you should generally try to transliterate the letters of foreign words directly into Latin ones, then pronounce them without regard for the native dialect. If there aren't written letters, then you have to rely on phonetically translating their sounds into the most close English version and then pronouncing it in your normal English dialect.

I always feel like people are doing it wrong when the try to use foreign pronunciations. "Look at me I can say Pakistan like a Pakistani, I'm so diverse."

It's not Pach-ee-stahn. It's Pack-Is-Tan.

Therefore we should say Keys-are, not Seizer.

Lee-Oh-Nie-Das!

The sounds change to suit the speaker's whims.

[Hobbes]

Attic Greek: Leonides / Λεωνίδης λέων (lion) -ίδης ( son of )
Pronounced as leh- ohh-ne- thees ( th as in the)
Doric and Northwestern Greek including Macedonian : Leonidas / Λεωνίδας
Pronounciation: leh-ohh-ne-thas

No and no, I'm afraid. You are applying modern Greek pronunciation rules to the words and it just screws it up.
Attic: /leɔːnídɛːs/
Doric: /leɔːnídaːs/

Click on each symbol to see what it sounds like. The ː symbol shows length and the accent above the "i" shows a higher pitch.

I actually applaud English for ditching the attempt to say two completely different consonants together. I could never imagine trying to pronounce "Puh-Tohl-eh-mee". However, I hate the overuse of the 'c' as an 's' sound. The 'k' sound of Greek does actually sound better on the ears.

If you can pronounce "apt" correctly then you can definitely say the "p" in Ptolemy
In all seriousness, no native English words start with "pt" so not pronouncing the "p" makes perfect sense.

[ivan_the_terrible]

In general I'm not bothered by it, though English pronunciation of Russian words/place names is often comically bad, especially in movies where it's supposed to sound flawless or native (like Hunt for Red October).

Sometimes it bothers me though. The American pronunciation of Tunisia is particularly grating to my ears. It's all subjective though.

[neoptolemos]

No and no, I'm afraid. You are applying modern Greek pronunciation rules to the words and it just screws it up.
Attic: /leɔːnídɛːs/
Doric: /leɔːnídaːs/

No, I didn't use modern Greek pronunciation rules but the Ancient ones.I simply used the syllables as pronounced in google translator (although the long o of omega and η still are not fully pronounced...).Try it your self.

[Hobbes]

Well you still said delta sounds like "th".

[neoptolemos]

Well you still said delta sounds like "th".

Oh yes I stand corrected, it is indeed D, "th" is a hellenistic development.

[Hobbes]

Yeah, same with theta and others. Really interesting how the sounds changed so much.

[neoptolemos]

Yeah, same with theta and others. Really interesting how the sounds changed so much.

You are absolutely right and it is not a coincidence that this has a major phase in Hellenistic times.But then again isn't that an occurrence in almost all languages?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbjqzWex1uw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s

[Admiral Piett]

Latin languages are by far the hardest of European languages for me to reproduce with my voice. I can't roll the "r"s or do the "n"s they do. Although it would be more practical for me to learn Spanish because it so widespread where I live, I just can't do it. German is much easier for me to pronounce, though many other Americans find German harsh on the ears for some reason. Spanish and French bug me more. Slavic and Hungarian accents are just bad-ass though.

Something funny, but a lot of Hispanics seem to mistake Greeks for Latins and will try to speak Spanish to them. To the untrained ear, Greek does sound very flowery as Latin languages do with the way vowels are pronounced. But Greek is far prettier, imo.

I am curious though as to how American English sounds to other people. I've been told they hear a lot of "er" and "ess".

[neoptolemos]

Ha you ve got a point because in my personal experience in Britain, in Paris and in Italy everybody thought I was Spanish and were trying to speak Spanish to me.
I ve been told that at least phonetically they perceive Greek to be similar to Spanish.
Personally i quite enjoy Romanesque languages, they all look rather pleasant for my ears and (I can speak Italian quite easily-well the few I know)

[Ishan]

The French just pronounce it /ʃin/. China and French "Chine" are derived from a Sanskrit word, which is thought to derive from the name of one of the ancient dynasties, namely the Qin.

The Sanskrit word actually pronounce as "Sina", and in fact is a geographic description of China.

It's actually cīṇa (चीन) in Sanskrit. Which in English would be pronounced as chee'n. And i agree with the latter part.