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Thread: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

  1. #21
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Why would anyone ever debate you after the stunt you pulled with me?

    Accusing me of changing PM's and running away from the debate, still waiting on those screenshots to prove you said what you claimed you said.

    Of course my invitation to debate me creationism vs evolution is still open. Too bad you're afraid to take it.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    Why would anyone ever debate you after the stunt you pulled with me?

    Accusing me of changing PM's and running away from the debate, still waiting on those screenshots to prove you said what you claimed you said.

    Of course my invitation to debate me creationism vs evolution is still open. Too bad you're afraid to take it.


    you edited pm's by leaving them out,as can be clearly seen on my post.

    as i showed you ran from debate with me,if by debate we meant discussion of topics back and fourth on key points. You understand it as who has most time and can type the most. You can fool yourself into thinking what makes you feel ok. but as i and others have said, none in world needs your conditions met before debating,you dont want a debate, but a elephant hurl, that is why i often debate creation evolution on many forums with many people. You wont be able to find someone to meet your demands,anyone can see for themselves on the debate offer thread who ran away. My debate offer as well is always open, but to a debate.


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  3. #23

    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    Why would anyone ever debate you after the stunt you pulled with me?

    Accusing me of changing PM's and running away from the debate, still waiting on those screenshots to prove you said what you claimed you said.

    Of course my invitation to debate me creationism vs evolution is still open. Too bad you're afraid to take it.


    you edited pm's by leaving them out,as can be clearly seen on my post.

    as i showed you ran from debate with me,if by debate we meant discussion of topics back and fourth on key points. You understand it as who has most time and can type the most. You can fool yourself into thinking what makes you feel ok. but as i and others have said, none in world needs your conditions met before debating,you dont want a debate, but a elephant hurl, that is why i often debate creation evolution on many forums with many people. You wont be able to find someone to meet your demands,anyone can see for themselves on the debate offer thread who ran away. My debate offer as well is always open, but to a debate. In fact if you remember, i even tried to debate you on your entire op of thread on evolution that is in your sig, you refused to do so.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-to-Evolution


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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]



    Still waiting on those screenshots of the PM's proving I said and did what you say I did. Frankly I've already shown people your real PM's, your lies are entertaining but little else.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    I think we have carried this on long enough no?this is off topic here, i posted the missing [edited] pms of yours awhile back.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...nge-here/page5


    To me its clear for all to see and is not worth discussion anymore.


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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    The bible is a fairy tale book.
    These fairy tales were created by humans and not god. If god really existed and if he really was a perfect being, then he could throw down a small booklet explaining in clear words what he was expecting from us. The flying spagetti monster did do this.
    Other fairy tales were ignored and are now known as the apocrypha. The Apocryphon of John is more plausible then the whole bible as it claims that the world was not created by a perfect being. Makes sense if you take a look around.
    These fairy tales are not consistent with each other. Old versus new testament. The god of the old testament behaves worse than the devil.
    Christianity has stolen most of its ideas from mystery religions, mostly Mithraism. Even worse, Chrisitans turned these metaphors into facts you have to belief.
    Wrong translations lead to a lot of confusion. According to my religion teacher, the virgin birth was a mistranslation as no word in our language exists to describe a married, but childless woman.
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    Sogdog's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Leviticus 11:13-19 appears to say that bats are a type of bird, when modern science knows them to be a type of mammal:
    And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, the kite, the falcon of any kind, every raven of any kind, the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind, the little owl, the cormorant, the short-eared owl, the barn owl, the tawny owl, the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.

  8. #28
    LordInvictus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sogdog View Post
    Leviticus 11:13-19 appears to say that bats are a type of bird, when modern science knows them to be a type of mammal:
    And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, the kite, the falcon of any kind, every raven of any kind, the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind, the little owl, the cormorant, the short-eared owl, the barn owl, the tawny owl, the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.
    I also wonder how the Bible handles asexual animals on Noah's Ark(flatworms, starfish, aphids, coral, etc) and the issue of parasitic organisms/bacteria/viruses. Come to think of it, Noah and his family would have to be carrying all kinds of tapeworms, ringworms, lice, fleas, the flu, E. coli, syphilis, smallpox, AIDS, etc. And how, if only a pair of animals were on the ark, a parasitic organism (a pair also) would quickly kill their hosts (the tarantula hawk wasp and the tarantula for example).

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    We still need religion, but dont let religion take our logic, some in bible is fully crap loaded, especialy sex story, like how in the world the writer know its.But the other is fine by me
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Once again a lol-thread for me.

    Somebody recently compared the bible with a horror-thriller full of violence (at least 1st testament), and i would mostly agree with that, rather Jesus' mountain-prayer alone is something that contains clearly the call for non-violence, just the call for the contrary of violence.
    Plus, these books invent the thinking in good and evil. As for the times as they were created, those items were eventually a progress in an else archaic world, where mainly the right of the strong ruled, and this was taken as normal property - the apparent philosophy and action by Jesus were so to speak revolutionary (while that kind of philosophy existed already in the buddhism). I call it now philosophy, because imo. it is, just only we call it religion, due to a belief in supernatural power, which we call god or allmighty whatsoever.

    Else, the bible, like all other "holy" books, is not the word of God ... the belief that it is though, is directly bounded to the belief in God exists as the christianity (or islam) claims (or rather believes) ... it has nothing to do with scientific objectivity which can be investigated within our science via proof/evidences, but only within mystification of God(s), and here just the monotheistic God (which has, afaik, its roots in the zoroastrism).

    Only real christian or muslim believers can overall think, that the books contain the word of a or the god. Also especially the islamic koran (qur'an) is merely a book, which contains a life-help in an otherwise archaic or chaotic world, and has to be interpreted in the context of the time and its geographical cultures alone.

    More interesting for me is, how religion overall was developed by humans, and there you can find the answers, why humans believe in something supernatural.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Lots of fantasy novels have mistakes. Why should this one be any different?

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    May I point out that calling the Bible a novel is a bit arrogant, considering it is also a noteworthy history book, not just a religious scripture. I am by no means willing to start a debate on that, though.
    Last edited by Goofy; September 25, 2014 at 08:38 AM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofy View Post
    May I point out that calling the Bible a novel is a bit arrogant, considering it is also a noteworthy history book, not just a religious scripture. I am by no means willing to start a debate on that, though.
    It's a pretty crappy history book actually, since it's been edited over and over to suit the agendas of various rulers secular and religious.

    It has value as comedy, that's about it.

  14. #34
    Praeses
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Does the Bible have Mistakes?

    Which Bible?

    I recommend "The Unauthorised edition" by Robin Lane Fox as a sensible outline of what the bible is and isn't. Specifically he addresses the question of whether the Bible contains any lies, deliberate or accidental, and he concludes it contains many many accidental and deliberate falsehoods.

    The clear and informed discussion of some fundamental falsehoods (eg the textural basis for Original Sin) is edifying indeed.

    Given the amount of times the various component texts have been changed (altered/translated/reassembled/edited etc) its clear the curse at the end of Revelations about plagues hitting editors is false, as is the promise "I am coming soon".
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    Lots of fantasy novels have mistakes. Why should this one be any different?
    What!? It's a fantasy novel? Half of the US believes it has a literal account of creation. Although it's also clear half of the US has no idea what literal really means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofy View Post
    May I point out that calling the Bible a novel is a bit arrogant, considering it is also a noteworthy history book, not just a religious scripture. I am by no means willing to start a debate on that, though.
    It is not a noteworthy history book. It's a philosophical set of lessons and laws taught through parable, some based in reality and others seemingly entirely imaginative. At best you could call it historical fiction much in the same way that 300 is a historical fiction about the battle of thermopylae.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Does the Bible have Mistakes?

    Which Bible?
    All. Unless you can find me an original bible within at least a century of the 'messiah's' death I wouldn't even try to pretend any of the bible is valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I recommend "The Unauthorised edition" by Robin Lane Fox as a sensible outline of what the bible is and isn't. Specifically he addresses the question of whether the Bible contains any lies, deliberate or accidental, and he concludes it contains many many accidental and deliberate falsehoods.
    I've been a fan of numerous biblical rewrites. Still these rewrites are in essence rewrites, any claim that they are the 'true' meaning is belief based and not factually supported.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The clear and informed discussion of some fundamental falsehoods (eg the textural basis for Original Sin) is edifying indeed.

    Given the amount of times the various component texts have been changed (altered/translated/reassembled/edited etc) its clear the curse at the end of Revelations about plagues hitting editors is false, as is the promise "I am coming soon".
    The very character of Jesus is in question, the fundamental 'pillars' of religion within christianity are extraordinarily problematic from a scientific, philosophical or theological perspective. They're contradictory. They're ambiguous. They're simply meaningless in the terms of any legitimate interpretation. It's a sad reality that religion still holds so much sway over the most powerful country in the world.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    What!? It's a fantasy novel? Half of the US believes it has a literal account of creation. Although it's also clear half of the US has no idea what literal really means.
    Yes taking the Bible as literal truth involves a lot of logical problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    It is not a noteworthy history book. It's a philosophical set of lessons and laws taught through parable, some based in reality and others seemingly entirely imaginative. At best you could call it historical fiction much in the same way that 300 is a historical fiction about the battle of thermopylae.
    The Bible is also a lovely songbook, some pretty vile propaganda, a nice sermon on tolerance, a juicy inside scoop on the horny kings and some ongoing arguments that crabbily echo down the ages.

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    All. Unless you can find me an original bible within at least a century of the 'messiah's' death I wouldn't even try to pretend any of the bible is valid.
    My point is there is none. There are a bunch of texts with various forms, usually multiple concurrent disagreeing versions, that are scrambled together at various times in various ways. The word Bible is a misnomer, it was never one book to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I've been a fan of numerous biblical rewrites. Still these rewrites are in essence rewrites, any claim that they are the 'true' meaning is belief based and not factually supported.
    "The Unauthorised edition" is not a biblical re-write, its an extremely well-informed overview of the current state of biblical scholarship, addressing the particular question "Is the Bible true? and if not does it tell deliberate lies?". The answer is "yes the bible tells many lies, and some of them are quite deliberate.

    I really do recommend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    The very character of Jesus is in question, the fundamental 'pillars' of religion within christianity are extraordinarily problematic from a scientific, philosophical or theological perspective. They're contradictory. They're ambiguous. They're simply meaningless in the terms of any legitimate interpretation. It's a sad reality that religion still holds so much sway over the most powerful country in the world.
    I disagree Christianity holds sway over the USA (after all its not a theocratic state), although I'd agree it wields disproportionate influence.Presidential candidates have to explicitly and repeatedly describe their faith in order to incite some voters on board.
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    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    I'd really question why you think that the US is not a christian controlled country.

    Technically speaking you're correct, but that's like saying technically speaking men don't have more power than women (at least from an objective interpretation of the law... usually) but practically speaking inequality still exists because men have had far more power.

    Religion is definitely on the decline but until religious individuals have to start suing atheists for discrimination I really can't see any reason to agree with you.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Does the Bible have Mistakes? [Aquila Praefortis versus elfdude]

    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I'd really question why you think that the US is not a christian controlled country.

    Technically speaking you're correct, but that's like saying technically speaking men don't have more power than women (at least from an objective interpretation of the law... usually) but practically speaking inequality still exists because men have had far more power.

    Religion is definitely on the decline but until religious individuals have to start suing atheists for discrimination I really can't see any reason to agree with you.
    I agree Christianity has disproportionate influence, but it does not hold sway, that is it does not have complete control (in the same way men have disproportiante power but don't have complete control). Its just a semantic quibble, and I think we actually agree.
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