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Thread: Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

  1. #1

    Default Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

    I was wondering: how long it took Saruman to build his army that will later make a push into Rohan?

    It's been a while since I've read the books, and in the movies this is glanced over (Sauron just says "Gimme an army, you tool!" and then suddenly Uruk-Hai...).

    3 years? 5 years?

    IS there a canon-backed estimate?


    Why do I want to know this?
    Well:
    In order to complete a "project management" class I have to write and describe a "project" of some sort using established forms. It's not a big task, just a couple of pages, but I HATE doing stuff like this.
    So in order to bring myself to actually writing it (instead of just doing other stuff until the deadline is over and thus failing the class) I plan to spice it up and choose Sarumans task to build an army for Sauron. I will write it in an "archaic" or "tolkinish" tone but still conforming to the formal constrains of the task.
    Hey, it beats crap like "tidy up your room" or "clean up the house" or "build an automobile" that were suggested projects to describe for this task.

    To conclude: I need a timeframe because projects (in this meaning) always need a timeframe.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

    Ok, using the Tales of Years, Appendix B of LotR, the first mention of an army 9Or the facilities for building said army) is when Gandalf is imprisoned on the 10th of July 3018. Assume therefore that Saruman had been doing this for a little while beforehand. Now, the first recorded fight (First battle of the fords of Isen) was on the 25th of February 3019. If you take the Tale of years, we can say that Saruman spent about 8 months minimum building up his army, although he no doubt laid the foundations for this plan a few years earlier.

    Hope it helps.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

    Saruman began fortifying Isengard and recruiting men, Orcs and Wargs (and helping Rohan's enemies) in 2953, 65 years before the War of the Ring. But there are no details about what exactly he did during that time. His army during the War of the Ring was not created right then and there, it was the result of a continuous effort to strengthen his position.

  4. #4
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

    Saruman probably began to realize his ambitions by establishing contact to the Dunlendings and securing alliances.
    It is hard to say when he decided to use Orcs as his tools and began to breed his own Uruk-hai. He used the palantír around 3000 TA, so this was when he was fully corrupted. I assume that he decided to use Orcs as his soldiers quite some time before this (say 2970) and at the same time started his breading program, 18 years would be quite short. Anyway, when Gandalf arrived at Isengard, the whole place had already been turned into a swiss cheese, with huge caverns, although somehow Saruman managed to conceal this fact really well.

    Keep in mind, that it was not Saruman who "invented" the Uruk-hai. He could resort to a bunch of individuals who suited his needs from the Misty Mountains.
    Also, not his complete army consisted of Uruk-hai. The Dunlendings were a considerably large force within, and he probably also had a huge amount of "regular" Orcs.
    The 10,000 men that were send to take Helm's Deep at this time where the complete force he had left, but he had already suffered heavy casualties in the First Battle of the Fords of Isen.

    In this battle, Théodreds force is given as 11 éored (1200 men) plus an unknown number of men from the Westfold led by Grimbold. The force of Uruk-hai that Saruman had sent down the east bank of the river is given as "two battalions". Assuming that this is from a Rohan point of view, this means that there were about 240 Uruks on the east bank. Saruman's host was bigger than the Rohirrim's, maybe 2000- 2500. Maybe that gives an estimate which percentage of Saruman's army consisted of Uruk-hai.


    In the Second Battle of the Fords of Isen, the host again mainly consisted out of Orcs. Saruman first send a small part of his army, deeming it was enough to take the Fords, where the Rohirrim still had garrisoned the earthen forts on both banks.
    A "troop of Uruks" forced its way through the western fortifications, but where thrown back by Grimbold who had remained on the eastern shore. Grimbold's men inflicted heavy losses on "the enemy (mostly Orcs)". "Mostly Orcs" could of course also mean "few Men", as Uruk and Orc is interchangeable. Nevertheless, in this case I'd take that literally.

    When this attempt failed, the main host attacked the Rohirrim. After taking the Fords, they attacked the camp, but Grimbold's shield wall held, due to the small stature of his opponents (=> Orcs, no Uruks), thus Saruman's commander send Dunlendings against him, who nevertheless had no body armour, except what they had scavenged from dead Rohirrim. In Isengard "only the heavy and clumsy mail of the Orcs was made, by them for their own uses".
    I think this last paragraph about the armour is highly interesting.
    Last edited by Thangaror; June 01, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  5. #5
    Gonras's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Lore question: how long it took Saruman to build his army?

    I think that last part about the armour just means that they were fitted for the orcish body, which is crooked and deformed (naturally). So deformed that it is likely (if it wasn't made tailor fitted) that it was made in a modular fashion that allowed exchanging pads of chainmail for the most common deformations that could be just strapped to the armour (I'm thinking in terms of pads like the roman legionairies shoulder pads loosely strapped to the base armor). That is the only solution I could think of for mass producing armor (except for slavery and abuse of workforce, which is quite likely with orcs as well). It is also a good reason why it must be heavy and clumsy in order for it to still give some sort of protection.

    I would say that saruman must have started building his army decades beforehand as well. Otheriwse the only thing that would have made him strong in a short period of time would have been troops from Mordor itself or a submission of the tribes in the misty mountains.

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