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Thread: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

  1. #1
    Libertus
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    Default How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    OK so I'm playing the Khwarezmian Empire and I'm waiting for the Mongols to arrive. Both Urgench and Khiva are huge cities with the best defensive buildings possible. I've got Mourtatoi archers possitioned in the city so that they can deploy stakes in front of the gates when the Mongols breach them (I expect most of their forces to be mounted so this will definitely take out a large number of their troops). Also I have both cities stacked with Ghulams, Persian Spearmen, Persian Archers, and Khwarezmian Nobles. I've got about 400,000 cash and I'm pretty much just sitting around waiting for the Mongol bastards to show up. So I basically want you guys to tell me if things look good for me so far on the defensive. Also, I would like someone to tell me the exact year in which the Mongol hordes show up and how many armies they've got per wave and also how many waves are there. Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance!
    Last edited by martoto; April 25, 2013 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #2
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    The 1st trigger (warning) is set to happen between 1214-1220, 7 turns later the 1st invasion rolls in. Expect 11 stacks and some of them have trebuchets attached as well.
    I think that's the most insane spawn, there will be several triggers (blue horde events) upcoming too, but only spawn less stacks (typically 3-4) and several supporting units to fill previously damaged stacks. Blue Horde itself should trigger 2x4 stacks.

    Though I never experienced the Mongol invasion right at their spawn, cause I tend to play European faction, only my current campaign (Cuman) will have to face them right away too. If my math is right, expect something like ~30 elite full stacks at all over the course of several years, while approx. 20 spawn within a short time: init 11 + another 8 after 4 years + some minor support stacks. IMO they do pop not up in 1 turn, but that should give you roughly an overview. If you somehow survive this, the rest should be easy.
    And don't necessary expect to hold Khiva & Urgench, but your armies in there should pretty much whittle them down. Though with stakes it might be much easier or even doable. But as mentioned, some armies have 2-3 Trebuchets, so don't solely rely on stakes at the entry points.

    That's the data from the script, that is correct me if am wrong.
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  3. #3
    Dahoota's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Is that all? I thought it was more in the ball park of 50 stacks in total. I remember reading that somewhere else on the forum.

    I'm actually in the exact same position in my campaign, I'll post my preparations and how it goes soon.

  4. #4
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Hmm, have taken only the scripted stacks in account, if you add the minor stacks I get something like ~36. There are also some trigger to build units, but those seem to require Urgench & Khiva. That should make it roughly 40 at all. That aside we are talking about 30 (!!) stacks, coming outta nowhere or even 40. It's still quite a huge number...

    IMO the biggest problem - as mentioned - are the first ~20 stacks jumping in very short intervals. The cheesy stake-tactic should make the city-defense much easier, as those have usually 3-5 of heavy cavalry attached, some lancers, a couple Dism. Turhagut and a lot of horse-archers. And the AI is too stupid to handle horse-archer properly and will typically charge them to an open gate in as well - from my experience. Else they are cannon fodder for Ballista towers and Mourtatoi, which have the same range.

    I still have ~70 years to wait in my Cuman campaign, but Kwar should serve as a decent puffer and both Dismounted Druzhina units are just a sick, specially in a defense.

    edit: I might be wrong, but the biggest wall-upgrade/or citadel should be able to withstand the punishment from 2 Trebuchet, so they only would have the option to beat the gateway. I think some stacks have 3 attached, so that might be tricky.
    Else you only need to defend the gates and walls at all, though I would put Ghulams (or Hashashims!!) on the wall to best counter the Turhaguts with their AP weapons. Anything that can wield a spear -> Gates, with support from more damaging units. TBH Hasashim are the most insane wall-defence unit ever for those eastern factions.

    I wouldn't ever bother to use cavalry units for the city-defense against the mongols.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahoota View Post
    Is that all?
    hahaha!
    Last edited by valky; April 26, 2013 at 09:39 AM.
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  5. #5
    Libertus
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Guys the only reason I have Khwarezmian Noble Cavalry in the cities is to destroy their trebuchets. The AI is far from smart and it usually puts the trebuchets infront of the army so it would make it possible for me to take out their trebuchets with my cavalry and consequently forcing them to go through the gates where the spikes will be more than happy to welcome them . And even if it means losing my cavalry it doesn't matter cause the sacrifice is worth it since it would mean almost certain defeat for their army.

  6. #6
    Honors Bastion's Avatar CRPG Staff Member
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    While that's a good idea, you still need more stacks from what your descriptions say. The mongols can easily launch three or four attacks per turn and by the third attack, your army would have been easily decimated. This even occurs by the second assault if you are unlucky. Your best bet is to hold them off south of Urgench and Khiva at the bridges. The tactic is cheesy but that's your best hope if Khiva and Urgench fall.

  7. #7
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Uff, just checked...from the first ~20 stacks, which spawn after the event is triggered, nearly every 2nd stack got 2 or 3 trebuchets attached *w00t*. That's quite annoying...
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  8. #8
    Libertus
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Right now I'm gathering armies full of horsemen. I've already got 2 full armies and one half packed with Ghulam, Noble, and Royal guard Cavalry (mostly royal guard). Also one of the army leaders is my Shah who is simply bad ass. He's my best commander and his unit contains 61 soldiers. I think these armies will come in handy when the Hordes arrive. My only problem is deciding whether to attack them with my horsemen at the very beginning or to let them besiege my cities and only when their armies have been crippled after the siege to attack them. What do you guys think?

    Oh and also I've recruited 13 assassins who are right now at their best and I plan on letting them loose on the Mongol generals when the bastards arrive. I know 13 is not much but I think it will help. Maybe I'll be able to bribe some of their armies once the generals are killed.
    Last edited by martoto; April 28, 2013 at 05:02 PM.

  9. #9
    Libertus
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    OK for those of you guys still following this post I would like to inform you that I've already repelled two Mongol waves. The first which was 11 was relatively easy actually. I fought a total of 4 battles with my 3 cavalry-only armies and managed to destroy 4 mongol armies. Since I had no more troops (most of my horsemen were killed in battle) I decided to put my assassins to work. They killed almost all Mongol family members in one turn. The next turn came and one more Mongol family member appeared who had absolutely no soldiers with him. I assassinated him as well along with the remaining faction leader and heir. The Mongol faction was destroyed and their giant armies became rebels. 5 turns later the next wave rolled in. They immediately besieged and invaded Urgench with 4 armies (!!!!!). They didn't even give me a chance to use my assassins as they attacked right away. The 4 armies attacked from all 4 sides but I was clever enough to have positioned 4 Mourtatoi units in the city. I gathered my troops at the center square and placed stakes on all four roads leading to it. the end result: my forces completely destroyed; their forces 55% destroyed with all 4 generals dead. After that it was easy. I lost the battle but I won the war. The Mongols took the city but they sacked it and it became a rebel city. After that I used my assassins and again the Mongols were destroyed and their armies - rebelled. 2 turns later I had retaken Urgench with minimal loses and everything was back to normal. So this is it - the story of how I repelled the first and second Mongol invasions. For others who are planning on taking them on I'd suggest using tons of assassins like I did. It's the easiest way of beating them (if not the only way). Cheers!

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Assassins are kinda cheating... It's too easy to destroy the Mongols, and even the Timurids. It's more fun to gather 20-30 stacks of elite veteran troops and watch them get absolutely stomped in open terrain, and in autoresolve. If you have an earlier save, try to repel the Mongol invasion without assassins, and without stakes if you're up for the challenge.

    PS: Try autoresolving against the Timurids. At 4:1 odds in my favor, I can still suffer a crushing defeat, barely killing a quarter of their army while losing 5000+ troops. Elephants are wayyy overrated in autoresolve.

  11. #11
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    If assassins are cheating, you ignore the heretics for sure in your regions?
    "It's more fun to gather 20-30 stacks of elite veteran troops" weird..my current played faction didnt come close to ELITE VETERAN troops, dismounted cuman ****-lancer+bows are already OP...but 20-30 stacks of them? in your ****ing dreams, if you didn't edit the game....am in 1187 and barely have 2-3 lancers + 2-3 bow units in my border castles.Else I can't rely on my militia troops....

    show me your savegame, how the **** you managed to uphold or even get 20-30 stacks after 100 turns...I ****ing loled
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel!
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  12. #12
    Libertus
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Hold on man. The Mongols are not done yet! They will return soon with another wave. The thing is though I really hate fighting the Mongols not because I might lose but because their horse archers annoy the hell out of me. But I guess that's really the whole point. Whatever. It was fun fighting the Mongols in the beginning but if I decide to fight the Mongols like mano-a-mano through the whole invasion I'm gonna end up with a -300,000 treasury. Which would mean that I would have to recover for a long time and there's nothing more boring than just sitting around waiting to get out of the red if you know what I mean.

  13. #13

    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    semi off topic, but kwarz has mourtotoi?

  14. #14

    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Quote Originally Posted by martoto View Post
    Hold on man. The Mongols are not done yet! They will return soon with another wave. The thing is though I really hate fighting the Mongols not because I might lose but because their horse archers annoy the hell out of me. But I guess that's really the whole point. Whatever. It was fun fighting the Mongols in the beginning but if I decide to fight the Mongols like mano-a-mano through the whole invasion I'm gonna end up with a -300,000 treasury. Which would mean that I would have to recover for a long time and there's nothing more boring than just sitting around waiting to get out of the red if you know what I mean.
    Some clarification is required...

    Firstly, I'm only play late era. Early era is too boring. That 20-30 stack thingy was mainly directed at the Timurids, although I have sent 20-30 stacks against the Mongols while playing as the CS, just not all at once. And try fighting the Mongols or Timurids when your army is mainly composed of infantry...

    About assassins: Against the Timurids (or the Mongols for that matter), assassins completely trivialize their invasion. I do use assassins (in fact my Lithuania campaign was pretty dependent on them getting rid of priest spam), but I'm solely referring to abusing assassins against those two hordes.

  15. #15

    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    My only problem is deciding whether to attack them with my horsemen at the very beginning or to let them besiege my cities and only when their armies have been crippled after the siege to attack them. What do you guys think?
    Do NOT fight the Mongols on an open field! Their multitude of horse archers will wreak utter havoc. Get them in close quarters and knock them off their stupid horses.

    I've honestly never tried to survive as the Khwarezms before... sounds like the ultimate challenge! Especially since the Timurids come later...
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  16. #16
    Libertus
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    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Quote Originally Posted by libertybull90 View Post
    semi off topic, but kwarz has mourtotoi?
    Well they do if you capture some Byzantine castles . I conquered all of Asia Minor plus some Greek cities long ago and used Trebizont to recruit Mourtatoi. They are a local unit so as long as you hold one of the starting Byzantine castles you can recruit them with anyone (I think)l

  17. #17

    Default Re: How to stop the Mongol invasion?

    Yesterday I started a new campaign as the Kwarezmian Empire in the Late Era (SS.6) I had read (on this thread) that the start of the campaign could be pretty brutal with the Mongols attacking you pretty heavily from the outset. So I spent Turn 1 building up my forces in various settlements knowing that the coming turns would be pretty hard going. Then, in Turn 2, I sent one of my spies to the north of Khiva to see what was happening in the Mongol city of Urgench. I noticed that an army of about 7 Mongol units had left the city and parked themselves just outside the city gates leaving a single unit inside…which happened to be Ghengis Khan, the Faction Leader. Meanwhile, back in Khiva, I had about 12 units including my Faction Leader and a newly adopted general (from the beginning of Turn 2). I split that force and sent my Faction Leader with about 6 units to attack Urgench. Fortunately, my spy open the gates and I was able to access the city immediately. At the battle stat screen prior to the battle, it was clear I was outnumbered and outclassed. However, I decided to rush the centre of the city and kill the Faction Leader and then while the second army was moving to the city from the outer edges of the battle map, I blocked the entry points into the city and held them off long enough to win the battle on time for a ‘Close Victory’. After this battle, I returned to the campaign map to discover that the Mongol Faction Leader had been killed and as a result the Mongol faction had been completely destroyed. Thus, by Turn 2 I had defeated the Mongols completely!

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