What's The Point In Living?

[Sir Winston Churchill]

I ask this honestly, what is the point in living? Is there any real and concrete reason past our human conceptions of continuing life? Is there any one goal that is needed of us before we die? Are there any reasons that we do not personally attach ourselves to, such as family? If the world burned up from the sun tomorrow, and all were burned to a crisp, would it matter at all?

Is there any real point in living other than what we decide for ourselves?

[Lazarus]

I think that the thousands of years of recorded history are in favor of "just decide for yourself" argument. There seems to be no benefit/punishment for any particular kind of behavior (even screwing people over for material gain has its drawbacks). There is no goal that we are all, each and every one, meant to achieve. If we had to achieve it, death would have to wait until we did and in my experience death is quite impatient and hates rescheduling.

No - it seems that life is what you make of it in every sense of the phrase. Mind you that doesn't make life empty. There are plenty of things you can do while you're waiting to die (drinking and sex being two of my personal favorites). You could also for whatever it's worth, spend a lifetime postulating what you're meant to do with your lifetime. Seems kind of counter productive to me but to each his own. If there is a greater meaning or purpose, it hasn't revealed itself to us in life.

Unless of course... y'know. God. But it seems doubtful at best.

[Lancy]

How to say really. I plan to become an intergalactic machine god, go and find some primitive aliens and make them worship me. But does that really give my life a point?

[Blau&Gruen]

Is there any real point in living other than what we decide for ourselves?

The counterquestion could be, isn't "is there any real point in living other than what we decide for ourselves" real enough for you? You are yourself a reality and to others of course which is quite a lot already.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

But why exist? Especially if one suffers a rather unfortunate lot in life? We tell people all the time don't kill yourself, religions save a special spot in hell for those who commit suicide because it's apparently such a sin, but if that person didn't find a suitable reason for them to continue on living, why do we place so much emphasis on preventing it and criticizing the choice they make when they do it?

[Col. Tartleton]

But why exist? Especially if one suffers a rather unfortunate lot in life? We tell people all the time don't kill yourself, religions save a special spot in hell for those who commit suicide because it's apparently such a sin, but if that person didn't find a suitable reason for them to continue on living, why do we place so much emphasis on preventing it and criticizing the choice they make when they do it?

It's murder.

[♔The Black Knight♔]

Its horrible for someone to commit suicide. If you looking for reasons why people condemn it, i believe its the people around that need to be thought of.

I have had a friend that have had his life wrecked when his brother commited suicide. He drove off the edge with depression and tried to end his own life as his world turned upside down after a chain events. He survived, and after finding a foundation and pulling himself out of the deep end, he went and married and has a kid. He went on to mentor some people and made a couple lives better and i think thats a great way to spend some life on.

People also have alot of potential no matter what circumstaces they are in. People have pulled themselves out of huge problems and go on to help create a better community and make life better. It just seems horrible for a perfectly good miracle go to waste.

[Blau&Gruen]

But why exist?

The two posts above is correct most of the time, and it's a metaphysical question. Answers on metaphysical question carry the risk of being arbitrary with the consequence of the answers being worse than the questions.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

It's murder.

So is the death penalty, war, and self-defense, but those are all an engrained part of our very being. What's so different of suicide?

Its horrible for someone to commit suicide. If you looking for reasons why people condemn it, i believe its the people around that need to be thought of.

I have had a friend that have had his life wrecked when his brother commited suicide. He drove off the edge with depression and tried to end his own life as his world turned upside down after a chain events. He survived, and after finding a foundation and pulling himself out of the deep end, he went and married and has a kid. He went on to mentor some people and made a couple lives better and i think thats a great way to spend some life on.

People also have alot of potential no matter what circumstaces they are in. People have pulled themselves out of huge problems and go on to help create a better community and make life better. It just seems horrible for a perfectly good miracle go to waste.

The two posts above is correct most of the time, and it's a metaphysical question. Answers on metaphysical question carry the risk of being arbitrary with the consequence of the answers being worse than the questions.

And what of those who don't do good for the world? We can look at the good in the world, and then suddenly someone comes and blows it up. Beautiful babies succumb to terrible disease, bright students are sent to trenches where they either suffer PTSD for the terrible things they see or becomes a tattered corpse. I see the potential beauty of the world, but I also see the very real and expected horror of it too. What's the point of building up these beautiful things if some ugly person comes and ruins it all in the ugliest of ways?

[Blau&Gruen]

What's the point of building up these beautiful things if some ugly person comes and ruins it all in the ugliest of ways?

I would say build in a way for the ugly not being able to reach the built.

[Armatus]

I ask this honestly, what is the point in living? Is there any real and concrete reason past our human conceptions of continuing life? Is there any one goal that is needed of us before we die? Are there any reasons that we do not personally attach ourselves to, such as family? If the world burned up from the sun tomorrow, and all were burned to a crisp, would it matter at all?

Is there any real point in living other than what we decide for ourselves?

The goal is to multiply and further our kind in the race against time. You have no choice in this just do it.

[snuggans]

So is the death penalty, war, and self-defense, but those are all an engrained part of our very being. What's so different of suicide?

suicide is selfish. it's relieving yourself of your problems in order to create new ones for those who care about you.

i'm atheistic and i believe that when i die, i will not be aware of it, i will only be aware of the fact that i'm dying as it happens, there won't be a heaven or hell, there won't be reincarnation, there will be nothing. i've often thought that it would be akin to looking around in a pitch black room or having your eyes closed, but i realize i won't have a working brain to even acknowledge that there is darkness; i will simply cease to exist in thought. my energy will be recycled back into the universe and that will be that.

i've talked to people and realized some of them simply cannot accept this or else they would succumb to depression or who knows what. even talking about death in a non-morbidly way bothers them. this is part of why i accept religion as something that should exist, despite being an atheist. people need some sort of comfort, they need purpose, they need hope, they need to know that there will be something else after the end. i've read somewhere that depression is less prevalent in believers, which makes sense.

And what of those who don't do good for the world? We can look at the good in the world, and then suddenly someone comes and blows it up. Beautiful babies succumb to terrible disease, bright students are sent to trenches where they either suffer PTSD for the terrible things they see or becomes a tattered corpse. I see the potential beauty of the world, but I also see the very real and expected horror of it too. What's the point of building up these beautiful things if some ugly person comes and ruins it all in the ugliest of ways?

so then dedicate yourself to combat the bad by doing good. granted, what you deem as 'bad' will never be truly defeated, at least not without the 'good' also going along with it, because it's part of the balance of the universe and the natural order of things. there is destruction because there is construction, there is suffering because there is joy, etc.

what makes us different from the rest of the creatures on earth is that when we look at something we tend to ask "why" or "how". take advantage of that curiosity. other than emotional ties to family and friends, what keeps me here on this earth is a desire to learn more about the universe and everything in it, including ourselves. i know virtually nothing and still think it's incredibly interesting. you are but a system of a system of a system of a system of a system . . .

the atoms that make up your body have had to endure a very long trip to be where they are. do you know how complicated you or even something as seemingly mundane as the tree outside of your house are? do you know of all the conditions and events that have had to happen for you to be here?

or would you rather have remained at a point where you're not even able to question your own existence? i'd call that hell.


despite what i've typed up here, i'm not trying to cheer you up by persuading you to believe we are ultra-special and that we have a purpose, that's for each person to decide on their own. you asked if Earth was blown up tomorrow, would it matter? why ask that? why feel the need to believe we are important in the grand scheme of things? would it make you happier? i am humbled we aren't, i am fascinated by it. it means there's more to discover, that there are things both bigger and smaller than us and if its possible for me to understand even a fraction of it, i'd consider myself lucky.

[Jack04]

It's more fun than not living.

[RubiconDecision]

The point of living is not about self-pleasure. That is a hollow pursuit, and after as little as two years of such indulgence, you will be so desperately bored that it will make life not worth living. The only valid points to living are to find resonnance in another being, and then for it to grow into either friendship or romance. For those who love God or some other spiritual system, often that manifests by alleviating suffering in one form or another. We see the suffering in our own lives and though we cannot remove that suffering ourselves usually, if we work to eliminate the suffering in others, then often their contact and friendship alleviates our own.

The more you help manifest joy in the Other in a sincere way, if it is reciprocated, then they attempt to manifest joy in your life. That can be as simple as teaching some skill to another, cooking a meal for another, listening, facilitaing their hopes and dreams, etc.

If you read the words of Chang Tzu or similar, then often a learned and sincere believer of the Tao will not interfere but will try to gently guide, or else you will not truly help. If a Christian, then helping alleviate suffering has to be finding ways to enable the sufferer with skills and coping mechanisms, and not just gifting them with necessities.

It is almost impossible to alleviate your own suffering. We can improve our health, exercise, eat correctly, but in the end, we need the company of others. Loneliness can drive most people insane, and that's a crucial insight into the human condition. It is why solitary is worse than torture. It is why the elderly sometimes have premature dementia. It is why many are depressed and filled with bitterness.

Some Christians might disagree with me. They might say if a Christian, the whole point is to worship YHWH. I wonder if this is so. That seems like worship by rote or out of duty. Instead, I think its because of genuine love, respect, awe, etc. YHWH becomes as real as your best friends and family.

Education exercises the mind and leads to self-acutalization. That has to be a goal of life, or else life is only drudgery. However practical skills are equally important, and at least for a Man, the loss of identity is huge when we cannot do the ancestral skills of our ancestors.

Skip any of those things, and most people will become depressed. They lose the ability to discriminate between their inner core feelings. If you ask them how they feel, it become a binary choice either good or bad. They lose the ability to quantify across a continuum. The more and more people cannot determine how they feel with only those two options, the less qualified they become to determine their true state in life. This is a primary means of determining depression, and from there it is only a few steps into anhedonia: loss of pleasure at all.

Sensual pleasures will briefly abate boredom, but they cannot cure it. It doesn't satisfy unless deeply deprived of all of the juice of life. The real joys are in finding profound romance, lifelong commitment, being a successful parent, connecting with your children and helping them discover their dreams. Real joy is having at least one kindred spirit like the thousandth man from Kipling.
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_thousandth.htm

For some, honor and chivalry can offer deep meaning and centeredness. If one has no anchor whatsoever, and has no sense of duty or values, then life has no meaning. If you look in the historical section of the STW2 forum, I placed a link to Nitobe's book on Bushido. There is great wisdom in that slender volume.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...y-Nitobe-Inazo

[DarthShizNit]

It's more fun than not living.

This

[The Dude]

Hell, forget living. What's the point of existence at all? Why does there have to be a universe with things in it?

That's the question you want to ask, and anyone who does should immediately realise it's a completely pointless question. We can't answer it. Might be we'll one day get closer to an answer than we are now, but really, big whoop?

Our views of life are colored by our self perception. We are living things. We like to pretend we're different. But are the particles that make up my body any different from the particles that make up a rock? When you get right down to it, no. As Dr. Manhattan said: structurally there's no difference between a living human and a dead one.

Life is an overrated word. I like to think that some existant things are self-aware and others aren't. Some have intelligence, others don't. It doesn't really matter why we exist just as it doesn't matter why a rock exists, or a planet, or a sun. We'll somehow have to find a way to simply be at peace with that. Pretending that we are any different at all from anything else in the universe is ultimately foolish. Maybe practically in an immediate sense we are different enough to warrant a distinction, but ultimately we all obey the same rules of the physical world.

[basics]

" You cannot pick and choose what to follow from your holy books. If you are truly a Christian, you must follow the bible by the letter. One read through Leviticus, where the disabled are barred from Church attendance, and homosexuals should be the least of your worry. It's the whole book or none of it, and to follow the whole book is to be immoral."

John F. Kennedy,

Well, there is a difference between the dead letter of Scripture and that which is Spiritually discerned meaning that the one can keep you immoral and the other a key to getting out of that. Certain rituals were put in place in those times as a pointer to getting out, not remaining immoral and as Jesus Christ said later it all comes down to rebirth, Spiritual rebirth. He also said that if the leaders then understood this then, immoral Israel may not have stayed under the curse as most did.

The whole point then to life is to know God and reap the benefits otherwise life is just as you sound in the words you write. Adam had it all and threw it away listening to another and herein lies most of humanity's problems because by listening and seeing one believes the grass is always greener on the other side and we must have it. The desire to have supersedes everything else meaning that no-one is really content with what they have. I say it is that that makes you discontent with life.

[The Dude]

I don't even know why God exists. What's the use of following an entity that struggles with the same question as we do?

[Claudius Gothicus]

I think I'll go with the boring, sociological and profoundly unemotional answer:

Our egos wish to transcend beyond the organic limits our biological system sets us, in a certain sense, the ego's persecution of alter's recognition (be it from a biologically, culturally or psychologically ingrained cause) can be enough motivation to construct specific or generalized goals, create paths for ourselves during the shorter or longer lifespan we posses.

The inability to integrate our ego's motives with our cultural background and socio-economic limits (be it a consequence of the social structure, cultural demands or the person's emotional framework) in adjusted and more or less feasible goals can very well lead to deviant reactions such as suicide.

Is there an specific goal? no, there's not... but our existence in an specific cultural background does a large part of the "give meaningful values" job, the persisting differences and tensions between your ego's motives, the cultural values and living conditions will more than likely force you to derive and create goals and ends for your particular existence.

[Biggieboy]

Dying. Am I deep yet?