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Thread: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

  1. #1

    Default Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    As a very small number of you might remember, I did a lot of the unit balancing for RTR Platinum (I am also, as Nerouin, nominally a member of the RTR VII team, though, sadly, time constraints have prevented me from contributing much at all). I decided to go through the RTR VII unit stats and make some changes based on the work I did on PE. The majority of changes were made to ensure that units fit their respective roles, or to introduce terrain penalties to select units; there are other, more minor modifications also. I'd like to note that this is an excellent mod---I'd not have put in the hours on this were it otherwise!---and that these changes only reflect my personal preferences for unit stats.

    The changelog is as follows:

    • Untrained light skirmishers, archers, and slingers have had their defense and morale stats lowered. These units were by no means equipped to take on anyone besides comparable soldiers. Against heavier types, they would logically be slaughtered. These stat changes allow light and heavy cavalry to rout light infantry very quickly. They will also no longer ever be a barrier to medium or heavy infantry. Exceptions to this rule are Cretan archers and Balearic slingers, both of whom were historically a bit nastier and better trained. Still, they won't last long against more powerful units. Note that the likes of peltasts have seen very little change, and heavy peltasts none at all. Both of these types were better-trained and -equipped troops, and the latter could hold their own fairly well in melee.
    • The charge bonus of missile cavalry has been severely nerfed. Missile cavalry were fast-moving, lightly armored units whose purpose was, as should be obvious, to throw missiles. These types rarely wore any armor, rode light horses, and generally only had swords to charge with. It's annoying and unrealistic to have your heavy infantry charged from behind and routed/severely damaged by missile cavalry. Do not attempt this anymore; it will not work well. More heavily armored missile cavalry has a slightly higher charge bonus. Numidian cavalry has a respectable charge bonus, as they were superlative missile cavalry (perhaps the very best in the ancient world). Still, you should not expect either of them to do much damage on the charge.
    • Light cavalry has had its charge bonus reduced also, albeit to a lesser extent. Like missile cavalry, light cavalry was not equipped to charge heavy infantry. It, too, was fast-moving, lightly armored cavalry, and its general purpose was to destroy skirmishers and ride down fleeing units. Exceptions include, again, the more heavily armored light cavalry, who have a fairly respectable (but still not substantial) charge bonus. The most notable exception is the sarissophroi. These cavalrymen carried long spears and were intended to be used on the charge against line infantry. Their charge bonus is equivalent to that of most medium cavalry. They'll do damage charging into infantry units. There are a few heavy cavalry units that are, strangely, labeled as light cavalry in the game; these, needless to say, have high charge bonuses.
    • The stats of medium and heavy cavalry have seen very little modification. And needless to say, these are the cavalry units that are capable of damaging charges into medium and heavy infantry.
    • Though it is unclear if they are actually available for use in RTR VII, chariots have been greatly nerfed. Outside of some uses that are not within the limitations of the game engine, chariots were rarely utilized at all. They were too unwieldy to be used on the charge, and their passengers would not stand a chance in a sustained melee. They have, as such, had their charge and melee stats majorly reduced. Even scythed chariots were mostly worthless, and they saw almost no effective use from the Alexandrian conquests onward.
    • Logical terrain penalties for fighting in forests have been introduced to applicable units. Cavalry suffers a moderate penalty, as the need to move slowly and weave around trees would logically make for a difficult time for horsemen. Hoplite units suffer a moderate penalty. The effectiveness of hoplite units depended upon being able to keep a solid formation, something that would be difficult in a forest; because of the importance of holding formation, hoplite armies nearly always chose to do battle on level, open ground. Sarissa (pike) units see a major penalty. Even more than hoplites, the safety and effectiveness of pike units depended on maintaining formation; more, their immensely long spears would be very difficult to effectively wield with trees in the way. Historically, pike units were even more dependent upon level, open terrain than hoplites were, and performed extremely poorly on rough ground. Never did any documented pike army even bother trying to fight in a forest. Finally, elephants and chariots suffer moderate and huge penalties, respectively. Elephants would be banging into trees left and right, and good luck navigating a chariot in a forest; this would be a major accident waiting to happen.
    • Already-extant terrain penalties that didn't make any sense have been removed. The lion's share of these penalties were attached to mercenary units, and did not have any apparent purpose.
    • Roman units had a peculiarly low shield value when compared to other shield-bearing units. The scutum, with the excellent protection that it afforded its user---even better than that of the hoplite shield---was a vital part of the effectiveness of the Roman soldier. It was also, needless to say, larger than the shields used by any other shield present in RTR VII. Scutum-bearing units have, as such, had their shield values increased. Carthaginian reform infantry has received a smaller bonus than the applicable Roman units; while these troops mimicked the Roman style of fighting, it is logical that their equipment was neither quite as good nor as uniform as that of their Roman counterparts.
    • Carthaginian reform infantry has been nerfed a bit. While they fought in the same manner as principes and hastati, they would logically be neither as accustomed to or as skilled at this fighting style as the Romans---who would have been using it for quite awhile by the time Carthage began to emulate it---and their equipment was likely neither as uniform nor as high-quality. It does not fit for them to have the same stats as principes.
    • Marian legionary cohorts have seen a minor (one point) increase to their pila and sword attack values, in order to better distinguish them from principes, and because Marian legionaries had equipment of slightly better quality than their Polybian counterparts. This is a minor change, the effects of which will not be very evident; it accounts for a difference of less than 8% for new units, a proportion that will decrease as the unit gains experience.
    • Italic hastati, principes, and triarii have seen a minor (two point) decrease in total defense value, in order to differentiate them from their Roman equivalents, and because they were likely not quite as good at the Roman style of fighting as the Romans themselves were. Again, this is a minor change whose effects will not be very visible.
    • All unit sizes have been increased by one third, with the obvious exception of those units already at the upper limit of unit size. Huge unit size in RTR VII is smaller than that in other major mods (notably RS2 and EB), and I find it more enjoyable to have larger units. This also somewhat fixes the imbalance in size between pike units and Polybian, as the former previously had twice the number of soldiers as the latter; now pike units are only 25% larger than the latter.

    Feedback is welcome. If you find any errors or inconsistencies, or simply have any ideas, please let me know and I'll look at them. If you encoutner an error that causes you a CTD (very unlikely), please post the exact error report here. This will make me better able to fix it.

    The file download link is below. The export_descr_unit file should go into your RTRVII\data folder. Be sure to make a copy of your existing export_descr_unit file before replacing it with this one, just in case you find yourself wanting to switch back.

    Enjoy.

    export_descr_unit.txt
    Last edited by Crymson; April 19, 2013 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #2
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    Looks interesting.

  3. #3
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    Crymson, are you ok with the changes you already made or do you plan to make some more? Sadly, i did not find the time to test it as much as i wanted.


  4. #4
    bobbyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    Thanks Crymson, great idea!

  5. #5
    King-Of-Xanadu's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    This is very interesting, however I have some concerns. Although you are correct that the Legionary shields were superior to most other shields of the time, the shield of the Spartan was nearly impregnable by comparison. It would have taken a very powerful charge from horseback just to pierce the shield of a Spartan. But that leads into my concern. I would suspect, that by your statement above, you also slightly nerfed the abilities of Spartans in forests. I fear that is a miscalculation. Although the Spartans, when fighting in Phalanx formation, were formidable they were also rather ridged. This problem was fixed by the Spartan military council by making sure that each Spartan solder was trained in one on one combat as well, so that if need be, they could break formation, and fight alone very effectively. This being the case, if you nerfed the abilities of all Hoplite units in forests, I feel that should be looked at again. I agree most should be nerfed, even though I almost always play as a Greek faction, the effectiveness of the Hoplites on rough or forested terrain was too good. But I behest that you do not nerf the Spartan units in any way. It would cause a historical inaccuracy that I feel could not be over looked.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    Does this work for the gold update?

  7. #7
    20ninescene's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Re-balanced Unit Stats Submod

    I've looked into this EDU, the concept of most of your changes is excellent but when I compare your EDU to the original EDU it seems like you have gone through the whole thing quickly without double checking + some of your changes actually cause bugs and ruin the balance of RTRVII. For example: you also removed some secondary hitpoints, which are important for autoresolve balance.

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