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Thread: One Year One Turn

  1. #41
    The Roman Republic's Avatar Alea iacta est
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    you are all misreading the OP, it is stated they are thinking of ways to represent the climate weather within the campaign,

    I think they should do maybe some in-campaign real-time weather system, where if you are in you turn and have been for about 10 mins the weather would change, making sure you time your march in the best weather.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by hanbarc View Post
    Bingo. I'm afraid your priorities may be messed up here, Jack. Surely it is poor game design to make forced changes/sacrifices to both gameplay and realism, to keep a purely aesthetic feature (the year count) linear.

    Why not just state the passage of time via an 'era' system? For example - quarter centuries, 'Early nth century BC', 'Mid nth century BC', 'Late nth century BC', 'End nth century BC'. This would let you keep the same well balanced features in as Shogun2 (seasons, movement points etc) but allow you to prescribe a certain number of turns per 'era' to allow the campaign to proceed through history at the required rate.
    To me this doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

  3. #43

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    I was actually really hoping for even more than four turns per year. I had a dream (such a cliché) that one day, CA could make TW as real as possible. There is a game called Crusader Kings, and even though I didn't like the game as a whole, there were two things I think they did incredibly right. One, there was way way more diplomatic and political intrigue than all TW games put together, and their time system was real-time, though you could pause it between days. Now, I love the fact that TW games' campaigns are turn-based, and I'd love to keep it that way, but I had some tiny hope that perhaps CA would make turns even smaller, making your strategies on the campaign map even more important. I thought having six or twelve turns per year would be incredible, but apparently CA doesn't think so.

    I'm highly disappointed by the idea of one turn per year, and when I saw the first thread here saying that it would be one turn per year, I really didn't want to believe it. Now, that it's confirmed, I find myself very much saddened by the concept. It feels like a huge step backwards from Shogun 2, in which having four turns per year was wonderful. I really can't see why CA thinks this is a good idea, and if armies will really get a huge amount of movement points because of it, it will be even more horrible. Imagine if you set up your army (however long that will take you with a whole year per turn), then decide to march against an enemy region. If the AI would be as smart as I hope it'll be, and your army didn't manage to get to the region's city/capital in time, it could just leave it's capital, and practically go over and conquer your own region because it has more movement points than you because of its army composition or tech that you don't have. I imagine an even better comparison would be playing chess when your pawns can move four squares each turn instead of one, and your queens and bishops and castles can change direction during their movements.

    I'm really begging you to reconsider this, CA, or put a slider in for number of turns per year in the campaigns, or at the very least allow for modding. I truly can't see a single pro for this method right now.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Having 4 turns per year in TWS2 makes sense because it takes place over like 50 years. TWR2 takes place over 300 years.

  5. #45

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    A campaign game at this time without the 4 seasons , its not a campaign game.We are at 2013 ....

    Why didnt CA continued on Rome 2 like they did with Shogun 2 ?!! Where we had 3 diferent period of times !!
    Why keep changing and changing and changing .....
    "team that is wining you dont touch" more and more you keep changing and more and more you keep hearing complains.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by oOIYvYIOo View Post
    A campaign game at this time without the 4 seasons , its not a campaign game.We are at 2013 ....

    Why didnt CA continued on Rome 2 like they did with Shogun 2 ?!! Where we had 3 diferent period of times !!
    Why keep changing and changing and changing .....
    "team that is wining you dont touch" more and more you keep changing and more and more you keep hearing complains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan113112 View Post
    Having 4 turns per year in TWS2 makes sense because it takes place over like 50 years. TWR2 takes place over 300 years.

  7. #47
    Sol Invictus's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Well CA never fails to greatly disappoint me in every game with at least one decision that I think is horrible. The 1tpy certainly wins the prize for R2. If this isn't easily moddable; along with other thing; then R2 will will end up being another arcade game mess and discarded after a few weeks. My anticipation and enthusiasm for R2 has been greatly diminished.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    It is obvious that the overwhelming majority of the loyal fans of Total war DO NOT like the one turn per year idea.
    I think most of the moders also will NOT like the idea of "one turn per year".
    The clouds are gathering in my opinion, we DO NOT have for the first time an organic sea map but "areas", then we've heard that we will have LESS towns and cities and more "regions", well will see how that will work, and finally we have this "one turn per year" and the almost clarified statement of Jack that they are still thinking if they will included climate variations and how...Well in the north will have always winter and in the south summer, that doesnt make sense.
    I HOPE iam wrong but i really think that CA is taking more and more the arcade path, we see a gradual dumping down or rather a taking away features from past Total war titles.
    We cannot have a clear picture of what the final game will look like but i have a bad feeling that it will be more arcade"ish" than ever, the only great features we have seen yet are the combined naval and infantry battles and the new city design in particular what we have seen from Carthage but that can be misleading, but yet i hope iam wrong.
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  9. #49
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Obviously I'm not present at the creation of this game....but 600 turns/2 seasons really seems optimal for a Roman Republic era campaign. I realize this could be too much TW for casual gamers though.

    Obviously the problem with modding 1TPY is with that the movement allowances for all the units would need to be carefully rebalanced, i.e. much of the game will need to be rebalanced.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Invictus View Post
    If this isn't easily moddable; along with other thing; then R2 will will end up being another arcade game mess and discarded after a few weeks..
    Depends on how they balance turns with movement of armies. It may not be realistic but if they give the same movement points for 1 year in TWR2 as they do for 1/4 of a year like in TWS2 or other games then I think it will be reasonable. Even though it may feel like you're fast forwarding through history at least there's no turn cap. You can keep playing long after the campaign deadline has expired.

  11. #51

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Why is it so important that the player experience all 300 years? Why can't the game just begin at 270BC and then let the player decide history at 2-4 turns a year? I'm not sure why we need to rush through 3 centuries. With the exception of the Marius Reforms, what is the player going to experience exactly? Some emergent factions? A historical disaster or two?

  12. #52
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Megasalexandros View Post
    It is obvious that the overwhelming majority of the loyal fans of Total war DO NOT like the one turn per year idea.
    I think most of the moders also will NOT like the idea of "one turn per year".
    The clouds are gathering in my opinion, we DO NOT have for the first time an organic sea map but "areas", then we've heard that we will have LESS towns and cities and more "regions", well will see how that will work, and finally we have this "one turn per year" and the almost clarified statement of Jack that they are still thinking if they will included climate variations and how...Well in the north will have always winter and in the south summer, that doesnt make sense.
    I HOPE iam wrong but i really think that CA is taking more and more the arcade path, we see a gradual dumping down or rather a taking away features from past Total war titles.
    We cannot have a clear picture of what the final game will look like but i have a bad feeling that it will be more arcade"ish" than ever, the only great features we have seen yet are the combined naval and infantry battles and the new city design in particular what we have seen from Carthage but that can be misleading, but yet i hope iam wrong.
    We don't know what the sea regions are exactly. Their more than likely there to limit what the player or AI can do since armies can now build their own transports. And no, CA isn't giving us less towns. If you watched any of the interviews they are actually giving us more. The regions within each province are like regions in current TW games. It's just that many regions are grouped under one province. Paradox does this in a few of it's titles as well. I can't remember his name but one of the campaign designers said the province system was just a way of organizing information and making this a little easier.
    Last edited by Dan113112; March 19, 2013 at 08:28 AM.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Balbus View Post
    Why is it so important that the player experience all 300 years? Why can't the game just begin at 270BC and then let the player decide history at 2-4 turns a year? I'm not sure why we need to rush through 3 centuries. With the exception of the Marius Reforms, what is the player going to experience exactly? Some emergent factions? A historical disaster or two?
    You can still decide history at 1TPY. There is no turn cap so what's the point in having many turns per year aside form proper seasons? Most players don't care.

  14. #54
    Sol Invictus's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Well CA never fails to greatly disappoint me in every game with at least one decision that I think is horrible. The 1tpy certainly wins the prize for R2. If this isn't easily moddable; along with other thing; then R2 will will end up being another arcade game mess and discarded after a few weeks. My anticipation and enthusiasm for R2 has been greatly diminished.

  15. #55

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Thanks for the info, your decision to make it the way you did is understandable.
    But, could you please tell us whether it will be possible to easily mod the game to make it 2/4/12/whatever turns per year?

  16. #56

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Dan113112.
    Did you ever played Shogun 2 by the way ?
    Gona ask you again .
    Did you ever played SHogun 2 campaign ? Ever ?

    You have Rise of Samurai ,Shogun ,Fall of the Samurai .
    We could have 3 diferent periods with Rome 2 also.
    So when does it starts RofS ? Around century 12 , Shogun (Sengoku Jidai) around century 16 ,FotS century 19 .
    So you have what ?
    Yes, 700 years of history.
    Any light now ?
    No ?

    Rome 2 could be splited in 2 ,150 years of history with one,and another 150 history DLC and you could get the 4 seasons easily.

    600 turns ? that is a pice of cake for a a real TW fan specially for the ones that play this game for a decade .

    Shogun 2 long campaign : 55 years x 4 turns per year = 220 !!!!!!!!!!
    Less yes.A completly diferent campaign HELL YES !
    We are talking about Rome 2 ! Ancient times ! Infinit civilizations ! Who wont be playing 400 or 600 turns !!!!!!!
    Make a DLC with other 150 years !

    This is a huge (another) step back from CA to TW games.

  17. #57

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan113112 View Post
    You can still decide history at 1TPY.
    Exactly, so why are CA so adament that the campaign should encompass 300 years. If we're making our own history why should it matter if the player makes it to the early Imperial era or not?

    There is no turn cap so what's the point in having many turns per year aside form proper seasons? Most players don't care.
    I'm not that bothered about seasons, I'd just like my Generals to last more than 40 turns. I think CA had the right balance at 2-turns-per-year in the first game.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by oOIYvYIOo View Post
    Dan113112.
    Did you ever played Shogun 2 by the way ?
    Gona ask you again .
    Did you ever played SHogun 2 campaign ? Ever ?

    You have Rise of Samurai ,Shogun ,Fall of the Samurai .
    We could have 3 diferent periods with Rome 2 also.
    So when does it starts RofS ? Around century 12 , Shogun (Sengoku Jidai) around century 16 ,FotS century 19 .
    So you have what ?
    Yes, 700 years of history.
    Any light now ?
    No ?

    Rome 2 could be splited in 2 ,150 years of history with one,and another 150 history DLC and you could get the 4 seasons easily.

    600 turns ? that is a pice of cake for a a real TW fan specially for the ones that play this game for a decade .

    Shogun 2 long campaign : 55 years x 4 turns per year = 220 !!!!!!!!!!
    Less yes.A completly diferent campaign HELL YES !
    We are talking about Rome 2 ! Ancient times ! Infinit civilizations ! Who wont be playing 400 or 600 turns !!!!!!!
    Make a DLC with other 150 years !

    This is a huge (another) step back from CA to TW games.
    I guess it's hard to reason with hardcore TW fans.

    I am a fan of TW games but I know many people who don't play TW campaigns for more than a 100 turns. The vast majority of players just don't have the time. They have a thing called a social life, work, university, etc. Many people get bored of a current campaign. No matter how diverse the map is. I love having 4 TPY in RTRVII for RTW but I usually get bored and start over after about 200 turns.

    It's a punch in the gut for me that CA has gone with 1TPY but it's understandable. Regrettable but understandable.

  19. #59

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    We understand that seasonal variety is important to campaign map flavour and that the four season cycle from Shogun 2 worked well both visually and in terms of gameplay. One year turns are not the only thing to overcome with regards to this: the map is huge, with many climates that would each require visual and gameplay representations of their individual seasonal variants. The climates themselves do cover the extremes that one would expect to experience at the height of the baking summer or the depths of the long, dark winter, and rest assured that we are continuing to explore effective methods of representing seasonal change regardless of the yearly turns and map scale complexities.
    So, what exactly does that mean?

    - There will be NO seasons visible on the campaign map?
    OR: The seasons change every round, but count "as a year"?
    - There will be NO seasons visible on the battlefields?
    OR: The climate on the battlefield will be random?
    If so: i hope that is constant for a turn. Fighting two battles in one Turn in France, and the first one is in the summer and the following in the spring would be very odd.
    However, sad that the season will (i guess) no longer be visible on the campaign map. That was a nice feature to look at. And with this, attrition is gone too, and so every need to plan a military campaign.

  20. #60
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    One of the biggest problems with 1TPY is if the movement ranges are increased so much, to the extent that forced march penalties are required to discourage "headshots" of enemies on the campaign map, how will we actually have satisfying maneuvers on the campaign map?

    We may have ridiculously monstrous flows to armies in and out of regions on single turns. A group of legions could have movement like this Turn 1: Italy, Turn 2: Germany, Turn 3: fight in Germany, Turn 4: Iberia, etc.
    Last edited by Huberto; March 19, 2013 at 08:56 AM.

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