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Thread: One Year One Turn

  1. #201
    Modestus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    But if the enemy attacks you after you've moved and beofre your next turn your army will be at a disadvantage.

    No the map is not going back to the old Risk style, that hasn't been used since Medieval I. You will be able to move armies and agents freely around the map as in Rome and Empire and Shogun 2.
    Thanks for the swift response.

    Sorry I don’t see the disadvantage, if I do get attacked by the AI I almost certainly will defeat them and would be even more delighted if it was the garrison from the city that attacked me.
    Unless I cannot attack on my next move it seems to me moving deep into enemy territory could be a very effective method of weakening a city of its defences by getting them to attack you.

    As regards the Risk map it seems to me that while you literally wont have a Risk type campaign having regions using only one tactical map is very close to having a Risk type environment even the forced marches alone could effectively create the same conditions.

  2. #202

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by stradar1 View Post
    Well I found it

    Battlefield terrain, once generated, will now be persistent within an area on the campaign map – so if you’ve found a rocky mountain pass that you like to use for ambushes, you can keep returning to use it for as long as enemies are willing to walk into your clutches

    http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/tota...t-world-rts/3/ Theres the source
    Ah well that means is different or not?

    I mean Lets say I enter the big province of Sarmatia ....

    that's huge right ?

    If I enter from south and meet the enemy it records the battlefield ...
    but if I come back from north and another position on map , will be always the same southern battlefield?

    I hope that this doesnt means that one battlefield once generated sticks to the region , but that it sticks to that part of terrain , so that if I found a nice rock I will be able to findit again after , but that in different locations of the same region I can get different terrain and so many different battlefields in the same region ...

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  3. #203
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by stradar1 View Post
    And we are talking about a game in ancient time period........So why are we even arguing about games that has nothing to do with Rome 2 total war? Those games are not even close to the time period. Im sure there great games but who cares ....
    Yes. Let us get back on topic. I was distracted by Anibal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    This is a good point. I'd forgotten that Medieval 2 was 1TP2Y, which means it was only designed to be about 200 turns long.
    And yet people believe it to be one of the best TW games.
    Last edited by Dan113112; March 19, 2013 at 12:18 PM.

  4. #204
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren the Unclean View Post
    If this is where they are heading, maybe they should just scratch the turn concept entirely and go to Real-Time simulation with time compression options.

    I have always thought that should be the future evolution of the TW games. The "Advisor" comes and announces news as it is relevant or if enemy armies move within certain ranges, time compression automatically slows. This way things are truly fluid and interactive.
    Real time will not work for Total war campaigns because how the setup is for the Campaign map the Maps are to big for real time and the maps are 3D and there are alot of areas on the campaign map. It just wouldn't work there have been many major debates about making total war Campaigns real time there is no viable way it will work.
    Last edited by stradar1; March 19, 2013 at 12:19 PM.
    Total War is the only massive war game that has yet to be Surpassed keep up the good work CA don't let us down!!!!

  5. #205
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    I was really hoping we'd see more detail in the generals characters not less. 40-50 turns, I'd use that up just building an economy. Another 20-30 turns to form armies capable of conquest and look, not a single starting general has done anything other then fight bandits. I imagine that would impact on my factions standing.

    I was keeping my fingers crossed for an early and late campaign with more in depth attention to nurturing generals and governors. Seems a bit of a sideways and slightly backwards step..

  6. #206
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    I wish it it could be divided to Early Era and Late Era or have a campaign for hardcore gamers. You miss a lot when you've one turn per year. You won't have the seasons, generals will die early. Even tho I'm not really fan of RP. I really love the RP aspects in early Total War games like MTW2 where you had a personalized trait system, instead of having clone army of generals as in Shogun 2. You won't be able to get attached to your generals when they die early, they don't have their own personality (traits) and you're general will never become a great conquer because he would use 10 years or more just to reach Spain and die shortly after.
    Birk Von Norway

  7. #207

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Shogun 2 is too rushy, you never have enough turns to fully evolve your faction, actually i never won a campaign on very hard that i had the top unities of the game or the best constructions, i recognise SHogun evolved the series in some ways but i hated the fact that the game does not allow you to explore him, empire tw managed that much better in my opinion.

  8. #208

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    I think CA is missing a great chance to make a great game here. Apart the graphic compart that for sure is getting a great boost, I am really disappointed by this choose. 300 turns are too few. The best choice would have been to continue on the line of the first RTW. It's non sense that modders must be obliged to find a workaround for something that it's obivious that CA should do. If we will have short and long campaign, the short campaign how long will be? 100? 150? Moreover if we consider that to sail the Whole mediterrean 1 year was more than enough in that time, this would mean I can enbark in Spain and arrive in Aegypt the same turn? Sincerely they should have paid more attention to the community because they have noticed that there are alot of mods to make even 4 TPY around. I hope they will go back on their steps because this would ruin the Whole game.

  9. #209
    stradar1's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    Ah well that means is different or not?

    I mean Lets say I enter the big province of Sarmatia ....

    that's huge right ?

    If I enter from south and meet the enemy it records the battlefield ...
    but if I come back from north and another position on map , will be always the same southern battlefield?

    I hope that this doesnt means that one battlefield once generated sticks to the region , but that it sticks to that part of terrain , so that if I found a nice rock I will be able to findit again after , but that in different locations of the same region I can get different terrain and so many different battlefields in the same region ...
    I believe what they are trying to say is this Lets say your in a Roman Region there is a big mountain to the east and to the west there is a wooded area those areas would be persistent areas where you will fight a battle I believe there also saying there will be a larger amount of different battlefield which would be very nice new edition. But those areas will always be the same battle map.
    Total War is the only massive war game that has yet to be Surpassed keep up the good work CA don't let us down!!!!

  10. #210

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan113112 View Post
    Wrong. I just tested vanilla M2TW as England. You start in 1080 and when I ended my first turn it was 1082.
    Remember that they have hide the matter removing the year and making "turns". Only by modding you can make it back to years. This was a way to fool the fans and the players that weren't able to understand the year he was paying in.

  11. #211

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by stradar1 View Post
    I believe what they are trying to say is this Lets say your in a Roman Region there is a big mountain to the east and to the west there is a wooded area those areas would be persistent areas where you will fight a battle I believe there also saying there will be a larger amount of different battlefield which would be very nice new edition. But those areas will always be the same battle map.
    I really hope not becase ,if Iplay on a battle field near a river in the region the first time ,and it places the river way distant ...

    While the second time I place a unit right over a bridge crossing on the river , I would be damn disappointed to find again the army back in the plains with the river in the distance ....

    Its something I really Hated of STW II ...

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  12. #212

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    But people, the problem isnt the turn year question, Everty TW changet it with the time frame given.

    I want to understand the seasons (winter and summer are OK) in Rome II.

    In RTW i conquer the world and finish all in 150 b.C. .... 300 turns is good, but i want to understand how the seasons work. THIS is the question.

  13. #213

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    Well the problem is that you could take several years for a siece , years to recruit troops , years to cross just Italy , years to manouver an army behind the other ... 2 - 3 years to set an ambush , decades to send a ship from a side to the other of the mediterranean , one yer to load troops on a shore on boats , another year to deploy them on the next shore ... , several years to build perhaps a temple , a fortification for the end of movement etc etc...


    Sure Rome wasn't built in a day .... but come on ...

    At least make double turns at years...
    Exactly! It will take years to travel the same distance the romans travelled in months! Unrealistic and a great miss. RTWII will be epic for many aspevt but this will be a great miss.

  14. #214

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Domitianus View Post
    Remember that they have hide the matter removing the year and making "turns". Only by modding you can make it back to years. This was a way to fool the fans and the players that weren't able to understand the year he was paying in.
    Yeah - from what I remember, MTW2 was even worse by default: two years per turn!
    OPEN BATTLEFIELD CAPTURE POINTS AND IMPACT PUFFS HAVE GOT TO GO!
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  15. #215
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Domitianus View Post
    Remember that they have hide the matter removing the year and making "turns". Only by modding you can make it back to years. This was a way to fool the fans and the players that weren't able to understand the year he was paying in.
    Actually, no. You go to your faction page and it tells you the current date. They just made a different HUD for M2TW.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfCrusader76 View Post
    Yeah - from what I remember, MTW2 was even worse by default: two years per turn!
    With the features we've seen implemented post-Warscape I think TWR2 will be better than vanilla M2TW.

  16. #216

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by stradar1 View Post
    Real time will not work for Total war campaigns because how the setup is for the Campaign map the Maps are to big for real time and the maps are 3D and there are alot of areas on the campaign map. It just wouldn't work there have been many major debates about making total war Campaigns real time there is no viable way it will work.
    I respect your opinion, but I think you're wrong on this. Time compression and a good notification system is the key. If time in the game marches on at a steady and fixed rate, then it would be a nightmare. But the idea I am suggesting is that you can slow the game down to real time if desired and take all the time you need to assess your situation (and go make a pot of coffee if you desire), then when you have issued orders or made decisions, you can uptick the time rate until you see something that catches your attention or the game automatically pops out of time compression as an important notification comes in or development occurs.

    The game that keeps coming into my mind is not a strategy game, but a Real Time Simulation game...Silent Hunter. I think they way they incorporated time compression and notifications was near perfect and the base concept could adapt to TW too.

    The more I think about it, the more I think its perfect for TW. For example of how this might work:

    As Rome, I am preparing for a possible war with Parthia. I order am army to travel by land to Parthia from Asia Minor. I then make some construction and fortification orders to various cities and settlements in the Levant. I then uptick the time compression to 10-days-per-minute. In the meantime I am watching my army slowly moving accross Asia minor at a realistic pace. Two minutes later, the game pops out of 10-days-per-min to real time as the Advisor announces that our garrison preparations in Antioch are complete. I resume time compresion. A minute later it pops out again, as a Parthian army was detected 60 km of one of my settlements. I then redeploy my Army in that direction adn slow thecompression to 1-day-Per-min and watch and maneuver my Army to intercept the Parthians. At any point I can slow or stop the movement of time and check out what else is going on around the empire.

    That's the basic idea...in many ways it is far more realistic than turns.
    Last edited by Ren the Unclean; March 19, 2013 at 12:39 PM.

  17. #217
    stradar1's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    I really hope not becase ,if Iplay on a battle field near a river in the region the first time ,and it places the river way distant ...

    While the second time I place a unit right over a bridge crossing on the river , I would be damn disappointed to find again the army back in the plains with the river in the distance ....

    Its something I really Hated of STW II ...
    I believe you are thinking of that in a wrong way I believe what it is that every spot your army is on has its own battlefield I would believe. At least that's what I think.
    Total War is the only massive war game that has yet to be Surpassed keep up the good work CA don't let us down!!!!

  18. #218

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan113112 View Post
    With the features we've seen implemented post-Warscape I think TWR2 will be better than vanilla M2TW.
    No doubt - but that wasn't my point. My point was that MTW2's default system was even worse than Rome 2's - two years per turn. For me, the minimum should be two turns per year - that gives six hundred turns, which is a nice campaign length. Three hundred turns is nothing, especially if you get one of those periods where nothing much happens, and you keep skipping the turn.
    OPEN BATTLEFIELD CAPTURE POINTS AND IMPACT PUFFS HAVE GOT TO GO!
    REVERT INFANTRY THROWING PILAE TO ROME TW'S SYSTEM AS IT WAS PERFECT!

    Mobo: GA-P35-S3, CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 2.66Ghz, GPU: AMD HD 6850 1GB, RAM: 4.Gb Corsair DDR2, Sound: Audigy 4, O/S: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium

  19. #219

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    So a few points have been raised that I would like to talk about.

    Campaign length

    All recent Total War games have had campaigns between 200 and 300 turns in length. Empire was 200. Napoleon 240 and so on. From metrics we have we know this to be a good campaign length that accomodates the vast majority of our playerbase. It is also the campaign length we will balance campaign around, whether that be army and agent movement distance, research and building times or how quickly generals and agents aquire skills and traits.

    I know many people in tihs thread have voiced support for longer campaigns, but we know that 200-300 turns is the best campaign length. Very, very few people play a campaign for longer than that.

    Why not make it optional?

    All of the campaign will be balanced around the turn length, to provide even a simple slider to change the turns per year would require rebalancing the campaign for each of those settings. We want to provide a campaign experience that has been worke don a lot and is well balanced and paced, instead of spreading our efforts amongst many options which would be less polished due to the divided effort.

    This is dumbing the game down!

    As shown above the campaign length is in line with previous games and will in fact be longer than some of our recent titles.

    What about movement distances?

    Movement distances are still being balanced, but do not expect to be able to move huge distances with armies in a single turn. The forced march/double time stance will let you move 2 to 3 times the distance, but you will not be able to attack with your army if you do that. It allows for rapid movement around the map, but without the capability for headshots. Your opponents will have time to react to it.

    Can it be modded?

    Turns per year for campaign are specified in a similar to previous games so i'm sure some modders will work it out.

    Hope this helps answer some questions.
    Let's say first of all that Empire was unique in his own and really bad balanced. To make a good army and invade India as the British Empire was a pain. I liked to do that but was a rush and I hated that. Napoleaon 240 turns? Man have you ever though that Napoleonic wars lasted only 7-8 years? Would you have like to make a game the shortest of history? It was obvious. Here you have chosen to take 300 years so give it justice and would be kind to make at least 600 turns 2TPY. You say that you will waste resources. Well this isn't so diffiucult to make. It's just another option to add. The campaign will be dunped down for sure. If we can't make long distances, have you ever read a little of roman history about their military capability? They were able to march long distances thanks to roads. Moreover to make all Ialty it required less than a year for sure. Last, speacking about modding,why should modders waste time for a thing you can easily make from the start and you forget that most people, like me, want to sit and play and not wasting their evenings looking for a mod and how to make it works to make in something that should be already in. Jack I respect your efforts but this is really a set back in TW games

  20. #220

    Default Re: One Year One Turn

    Thanks for the info Jack and Dominique!

    I have to say I am a bit disappointed though, I was rooting for atleast 4 tpy, with some far fetched hopes of 12 tpy. I really hope that it will be possible to mod the tpy and balance it accordingly.

    I also don't understand the arguments held by some that turns per year would affect the appeal of the game to the large non-fan audience. Too little turns per year makes the game feel less epic, less attached, and stops people who want to expand realistically from doing so. If anything, I'd argue that 2-4 tpy would appeal a lot more to the modern strategy crowd. People who only want fast games and lots of action are not really into total war games anyway as there's considerably better options to choose from if that is a priority.

    That said, the only option I'd imagine would make everyone happy is a turns per year slider when selecting settings for a campaign.

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