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Thread: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

  1. #1

    Icon4 The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    This feature suggestion fits in with the game in terms of the features we know to date; historical accuracy AND improving gameplay in terms of extensive depth and replayability! It also serves to extend the presence of a people who wouldn't just disappear once their hillfort capital had been overrun. This just does't make sense

    This is a bit like the feature in RTW:BI, where a nomadic faction can choose to uproot itself and become nomadic, thus changing the overall play style.
    Here though, this should be available to every faction who meets certain criteria, and the faction doesn't turn into an unstoppable swarm of supersoldiers. ...quite the opposite in fact.

    For factions that are not COMPLETELY urbanised (the "greco-roman" label that CA have stated fits well enough as an example), the option is present to become nomadic. This means that the faction leader and ruling family are the "capital city" equivalent. Some factions may end up staying this way for a long time, wandering the Gallic countryside (for instance), chewing up all the grain, causing major annoyance for the owner of said countryside.
    • On the positive side the faction would be consolidated into a ONE MASSIVE ARMY (representing the entire people of the faction including non-combatants), which would have increased movement points. It also means that the faction doesn't NEED settlements to survive. Note that (despite the below picture) this is not the Horde feature, but sort of a mix between that and the "revolutionary stage" of ETW, with many more things you can do with your people.
    • Being the last bastion of defense against the utter destruction of their people, the troops of the Tribe would have a somewhat increased morale.




    • On the negative side, the tribe would suffer constant attrition everywhere it went unless it fed off the land. The amount of resources it gains (also minimising attrition rate - starvation) depends on the fertility of the region it occupies (which is a great way to incorporate this aspect of region economics). They cannot recruit units, but have greater access to mercenaries. when they defeat an army, they can also gain troops this way. similar to BI, a nomadic faction would need to sack settlements to survive, adding to its treasury, but also its stockpile of resources (to minimise attrition - starvation).
    • without a central region to draw good troops from, many of the tribe would be tribesmen who aren't fighters at all, and more closely resemble the tactical prowess of RTW's Peasants.
    • This form of faction is NOT going to be able to take on a major power, and won't even be able to last long against a minor power for too long a time, because they simply don't have ANY infrastructure.


    This feature should be potentially available to all non Greco-Roman factions to counter the lack of shipbuilding capabilities of barbarians, and the infertility of the East - FOR EXAMPLE. That said, if a non greco-roman faction becomes urbanised (open to suggestions as to how this could happen), then the option would disappear.

    It should be said that there should be more negatives to Nomads than positives, but it is a way to extend the game if a player is on the brink of being defeated. It also makes it harder to defeat an enemy faction, meaning that you can no longer just rush their territory, and then never have to deal with them again.

    I'm not saying it would happen to every faction, but only if they decided to do it. This would be an extremely particular AI event, which most of the time would happen just before the AI senses defeat, either economically or by the sword. And even then it would be rare. For the PLAYER, it could be something to work towards, as an alternative play-style, just like refusing to accept the Marian Reforms is something CA have promised as an option.

    I don't want to hear people say that this feature isn't appropriate for this time-frame, because that's absurd. The Helvetii were major players in the first century BCE, and the Parthians were a settled tribe themselves! There are many examples of this, and there's no reason why the Huns couldn't have arrived in Europe centuries earlier had the Persians not held the Caucasus mountains so well!

    EDIT: I've deleted the RTW:BI picture, because although I've said a few times that this is NOT a horde feature, the picture's presence misled everyone. It was there to provide a visual representation of the feature only. The point is that these aren't thousands of warrior-caste lunatics, they're peasants, farmers, women/children (not necessary to represent them in fighting terms), plus the necessary warrior caste who would have been in there too!

    The criticism for this feature has really shown the misunderstanding for the barbarian factions, and an adherence to a renaissance inspired viewpoint of Roman virtue and progress amongst "barbarian" .... not virtue and progress.
    seriously go away and read a bit about how barbarian tribes were organised (from a non-roman oriented perspective). This feature is truly great for the non-civilised(meaning Urbanised) peoples of Europe.

    Last edited by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠; March 19, 2013 at 01:31 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    I suggested this feature some months ago to be implemented for the nomadic tribes , in order to simulate the barbarian migrations , to remove a capital from a place and settle to another ... SO I agree with it ...

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  3. #3

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    I don't like this idea and feature. Every faction should have a fixed capital. About nomadism is only appliable to desert warriors and barbarians from the east. The other cultures/factions had a capital, all of them. I found this even boring in BI. Never liked this.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Domitianus View Post
    The other cultures/factions had a capital, all of them.
    We have a winner! well done, you've shown how little you understand barbarians! plus you clearly didn't read to the end of my post.

    I mean seriously, as it is now - unless you're crap at TW games - every campaign is like 146BCE. "OK, I took their capital, we'll never be seeing any trace of THEM again!". How retarded is that? it negatively affects gameplay and historical authenticity, so there's no reason to squabble over it's motives.

    I'm not saying it would happen to every faction, but only if they decided to do it. This would be an extremely particular AI event, which most of the time would happen just before the AI senses defeat, either economically or by the sword. And even then it would be rare. For the PLAYER, it could be something to work towards, as an alternative play-style, just like refusing to accept the Marian Reforms is something CA have promised as an option.
    Last edited by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠; March 18, 2013 at 06:34 AM.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠ View Post
    We have a winner! well done, you've shown how little you understand barbarians! plus you clearly didn't read to the end of my post.
    I have read and replied anyway. Barbarians like Gauls had a capital in that time, dude. In a game you can't avoid by giving them a capital because it's important for the victory conditions ect. We are not playing Civilization, we are playing Total War. This will not extend the gameplay life, it will make it only worse man. I can't understand why people are suggesting so many fancy features that, luckely, will never appear in the final RTWII.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠ View Post
    We have a winner! well done, you've shown how little you understand barbarians! plus you clearly didn't read to the end of my post.

    I mean seriously, as it is now - unless you're crap at TW games - every campaign is like 146BCE. "OK, I took their capital, we'll never be seeing any trace of THEM again!". How retarded is that? it negatively affects gameplay and historical authenticity, so there's no reason to squabble over it's motives.

    I'm not saying it would happen to every faction, but only if they decided to do it. This would be an extremely particular AI event, which most of the time would happen just before the AI senses defeat, either economically or by the sword. And even then it would be rare. For the PLAYER, it could be something to work towards, as an alternative play-style, just like refusing to accept the Marian Reforms is something CA have promised as an option.
    You can even think of cimbri and theutons , sarmatians , and many others , if not wrong also parthians started from steppes north of Iran...

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  7. #7

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Domitianus View Post
    I have read and replied anyway. Barbarians like Gauls had a capital in that time, dude. In a game you can't avoid by giving them a capital because it's important for the victory conditions ect. We are not playing Civilization, we are playing Total War. This will not extend the gameplay life, it will make it only worse man. I can't understand why people are suggesting so many fancy features that, luckely, will never appear in the final RTWII.
    I can't say that actually makes any logical sense. Did it affect RTW:BI's victory conditions?
    Why would a barbarian people who were surrounded by other barbarian people, and had been for hundreds of years, suddenly decide they HAD to conquer the world? They never did, and they never would. There is a CULTURAL reason that the Gauls never build Triremes. It wasn't because they couldn't, it's because their culture didn't work that way. CA have been good enough to differ the gameplay styles for the 3 main culture divisions, and this is just another way to divide the groups into cooler, more fun-to-play categories.


    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    You can even think of cimbri and theutons , sarmatians , and many others , if not wrong also parthians started from steppes north of Iran...
    see! lot's of examples. The barbarians being stuck in one spot unless they start wiping out other barbarians just doesn't do them justice!
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  8. #8

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Indeed is a cool addition...

    Imagine suebi. Fighting all naigthboring tribes... Instead of conquering them and get a supersize unique and only one barbarian army of germans, the game could decide to make some smaller tribes migrate or unify in a migration somewherelse like beyond rman border where they would meet romans and ve forced to fight for survival or eventualybally with them against their Suebi enemies... Lots of possibilities...

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠ View Post
    There is a CULTURAL reason that the Gauls never build Triremes. It wasn't because they couldn't, it's because their culture didn't work that way.
    There is no such cultural reason at all! Gauls and, generally, the barbarians had neither the knowledge nor the funds to construct triremes. It's the same reason why Incas didn't create carracks to conquer Europe or why Japanese didn't have ships of the line (note: as soon as they had the suitable knowledge and a growthing economy they built modern battleships). I can't understand why a faction wouldn't want to become a naval power because of civilization. About the topic, I totally agree with you: Western tribes did also form hordes in difficult situations. about the capital argument: the fact that a tribe has some sort of administrative center (capital isn't the right word) has nothing to do with their ability to become a horde.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabor of Assur View Post
    There is no such cultural reason at all! Gauls and, generally, the barbarians had neither the knowledge nor the funds to construct triremes. It's the same reason why Incas didn't create carracks to conquer Europe or why Japanese didn't have ships of the line (note: as soon as they had the suitable knowledge and a growthing economy they built modern battleships). I can't understand why a faction wouldn't want to become a naval power because of civilization. About the topic, I totally agree with you: Western tribes did also form hordes in difficult situations. about the capital argument: the fact that a tribe has some sort of administrative center (capital isn't the right word) has nothing to do with their ability to become a horde.


    1) It IS a cultural issue, otherwise how did the Romans go from controlling Latium to controlling Europe in the same time contemporary barbarian tribes went from controlling a hill.... to controlling a hill?! How hard do you think it would have been for a people to find out how to build boats? You don't even have to capture one, you can just copy it from design. That's how history works. The japanese didn't have ships of the line because they didn't have a yearning to travel around the world! They did try to recreate the Korean Turtle ships, after being defeated by them.

    2) I specifically said this was NOT about hordes. NOT.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    You speak of cultural reasons like you knew everything about it. Probably you consider your beliefs far too important. BTW I don't see any reason to add a useless feature that DO NOT represent the fealing of the this kind of game and that is not part of the hystorical sistuation that, I remember you, is the base of this line of games. You may give the nomadic feature to a people that used it massively but for sure not most of the factions portraited in this game. Not the Greco-Romans should have this as they were nomadic during the preistoric era not for sure this one. Instead let's add a feature to add colonies to them as it was the main way to conquer and occupy lands.

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    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Quote Originally Posted by ♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠ View Post


    1) It IS a cultural issue, otherwise how did the Romans go from controlling Latium to controlling Europe in the same time contemporary barbarian tribes went from controlling a hill.... to controlling a hill?! How hard do you think it would have been for a people to find out how to build boats? You don't even have to capture one, you can just copy it from design. That's how history works. The japanese didn't have ships of the line because they didn't have a yearning to travel around the world! They did try to recreate the Korean Turtle ships, after being defeated by them.

    2) I specifically said this was NOT about hordes. NOT.
    1) Are you serious?! Rome became an empire because of her civilization?! So administration factors (the most complicated political system in the Antiquity), environmental ones (excellent climate), foreign influence (Etruscans, Greeks, Phoenicians), ideal location had nothing to do with that?! It's the most absurd argument I have ever heard. What's your profession? Culture Minister? Anyway, which factor determines the culture of a nation?
    About ship designs: How in the hell a tribe could have access to a trireme's design? Even the Romans had to exploit a captured carthaginean ship to inprove theirs. They couldn't even build stone walls and they had the ability to construct triremes?! So the Japanese in the 18th and 19th century didn't want to become naval powers but suddenly in the 20th century they tried to conquer the whole Pacific! It just doesn't make sense! Probably, because of their isolationism they didn't even know the existence of ships of the line, which, exactly like the triremes in the Antiquity demanded a high levelled knowledge of ship architecture.
    2) I used the term ''horde'' in order not to use too many words. Anyway, I supported your idea: You did understand it, didn't you?

  13. #13

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Well I think he meant the feature only for some cultures that didn't enstablish a solid urban development ....surely if Germans did develope a city like Rome they wouln't just drop it , pack the baggages and go away...

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  14. #14

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    At least someone who has understood me. Thx Prometheus, I was trying to say that without involving too many factors that have nothing to deal with the feature we are talking about.

  15. #15
    Shigawire's Avatar VOXIFEX MAXIMVS
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    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    This sort of feature wouldn't be too awry. I would add a suggestion:
    When a faction has initiated migration, "feeding off the land" would only last a short few turns before the stack needs to move on.
    If you were foraging off the land of another faction for too long, it would cause decrease in diplomatic relations.

    Think the mass migration of Orgetorix and his Helvetii tribe... The Helvetii (Celts) wanted to move through Roman lands on their way west, but Rome said no.
    Orgetorix then took a path through Aedui lands - foraging off nature - Aedui didn't want this and asked Julius Caesar for help - and he came to the "rescue."
    This was a rough sketch of what happened, but you probably know the rest..

    This sort of dynamic situation could cause many interesting consequences that enriches game play.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Indeed , I would really like if they could implement it ... Lol woudl be cool to play as a hun horde coming from the far east moving and pillaging along the way ...

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  17. #17
    Jokern's Avatar Mowbray of Nottingham
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    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    I love the idea, but I don't agree with you saying Barbarians didn't build triremes because of their culture.

    Also, to cool things down a bit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--rb9UyfIfw
    Last edited by Jokern; March 18, 2013 at 01:23 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    This feature should be in the game.

    It is interesting for gameplay & historical accuracy in my mind.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Why not. Migrations could be pretty interesting - you could leave your homes and go on a all or nothing attack to claim a new city.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The feature for unlimited gameplay! - NOMADISM

    Sounds prime, I'm going to play as a barbarian tribe and before I go into another territory I'm going to shout "Autobots role out!" I advise all of you to do the same if you want top of the line epicnes.

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