Unit info card, economics boost + loyal allies submod for version 0.69

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I voted yes to the garrison script, though obviously it'll need some testing. Other good mods have proved that garrison scripts work well, though, as long as it doesn't bankrupt the AI.

[rummtata]

Great pics. Hopefully you can find some slingers. I took a look through "The Loathsome Ratmen and all their Vile Kin" but couldn't find anything suitable for you.

Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open =)

And don't worry on the Slings, we can add the picture from knight of meh as an easter egg! (or in worst case, you can change a clanrat's weapon to sling in PS )

I heartily consent to your first suggestion =D I'll attend to the other one when basic work on the other factions is done.

Edit Arandir : Winter is coming

Oh yes. Winter is coming for all of us. Especially if Mr. Martin doesn't hurry with his next volume...

P.S.: I will take your votes into consideration ;-)

[rummtata]

Concerning the garrison, I voted yes as well, but I am rather torn. On the one hand, it can be frustrating to take key settlements too easy because the "AI" is more artificial than intelligent. On the other hand it's not really fulfilling to fight your way deep into enemy territory and try to snatch a poorly defended city (strategy and all that) with your already weakened troops only to be confronted with magically materializing reinforcements.

I think such a script can be reasonable if limited to one settlement per faction and if you don't make it spawn a full stack of elite troops, more like militia troops mostly and a few elite "core guard" units.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I think such a script can be reasonable if limited to one settlement per faction and if you don't make it spawn a full stack of elite troops, more like militia troops mostly and a few elite "core guard" units.

How about only the default capitols, only mid-tier units, and only once per game?

[rummtata]

That could work. There might also be alternatives, e.g.

- make all factions re-emergent/become hordes
- script a "last stand" event when a faction looses all but one of its provinces, which gives the faction a large contingent of troops so that it has a chance to survive

Could be hard to write, though, I don't know much about scripting...

[knight of meh]

i hate the horde script with a vengeance cause it crash's me comp sometimes

but to answer that question technically it is actually very easy it's not even a script just a hidden resource relating to the faction, EDIT found the file "descr_sm_factions.txt" dam my memory sucks....the work will only mount up if you want horde units or not . forgot about the art there are event pics that need to show horde nearby , horde destroyed and horde created forgot about that as i don't like art sorry ... also i appear to forgotten how most of the horde functions work

as for you "last stand" that is relatively easy you just write a counter script including
...
faction name
if it is AI controlled
how many regions to activate
+1 counter to Ai if these conditions are met
then list the spawned army and a desc_strat location if wanted

sorry if this is hard to understand...

[rummtata]

Don't let the event windows stop you, I like doing pictures ;-) I think I understood your explanation though, thanks. I guess I will wait what you guys come up with and playtest your solution ;-)

[knight of meh]

an edit to my last post descr_sm_factions.txt. <-- this is the file i was talking about that you edit in order to allow hordes from the start ... honestly i just forgot what it was called

[rummtata]

Busy day, but still managed another preview =) here comes the waaaagh!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Notes:
- found no images for spear chukka, but should be reather quick to photoshop
- giant spider missing, but there are a hundred pictures to choose from
- giant picture is preliminary
- I'm undecided about the landscape alternatives; I'm trying to stick to the portrait format but it's not always easy to find adequate sources

so long, rummtata

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Woo, Green is best!

[Bela]

I remember an old picture:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Maybe a better version (I have that somewhere at home) can be used as a base... but yep, there are no normal images for spear chukka... PS will do the work, I think

The only pic I don't really like os the boar boyz.

What do you think of this, for example?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

or this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I like the savage_orcs_landscape


EDIT :

an edit to my last post descr_sm_factions.txt. <-- this is the file i was talking about that you edit in order to allow hordes from the start ... honestly i just forgot what it was called

Nope, no hordes in Ulthuan (except for one ).


But, you gave me an idea: if any of the "good" factions is destroyed, the faithful survivors escape to the player (if he's playing "good" faction), and the player will be able to recruit special units of the destroyed factions in his capital... hmmm.... not a perfect idea, but after being finished with the rest, I think it should worth to give it a try. What do you think?



Update: Yesterday I tested the very first version of the diplomacy part, it works great, although I still must do a lot of copy-paste-retype in it... (made the basic for Chrace. Allies work very well, cultist spawn wherever and whenever needed, allies break alliances upon excommunication, and so on. So good so far. Although needs further testing). Unfortunately I will have very busy days until the end of the week, the earliest possible testing and fixing of the diplomacy part is Sunday, but rather next week. So expect release during next week

Update 2: I want to rework the frames of the unit pictures for each and every factions, being compatible with the UI of each factions. Rummtata, can you please check the ui folder for frames? There are some I like and some I dislike, I think we should have a short chat on this

[Sephiroth91]

You mean to give them unique units on the battlefield or change their campaign strat modells? Adding unique bodyguard units is easy and improves gameplay, I was also wondering about it. But if you do this, please let me know, so I won't do that and we can avoid double work.

Just playing a bit with the EDU, changing their battle models as I've done in my submod with Ellyrion's prince bodyguard. 10 minutes and it's done, even less. I was also thinking about crown and settlements ancillary, but that's gonna take a lot of time because I need someone for the 2D work. Also, have you thought about free upkeep archers militia ?

[Bela]

Just playing a bit with the EDU, changing their battle models as I've done in my submod with Ellyrion's prince bodyguard. 10 minutes and it's done, even less.

Yep, it's really quick if you have the time and are in the mood of making it

I was also thinking about crown and settlements ancillary, but that's gonna take a lot of time because I need someone for the 2D work.

Also a great idea I always like to see the "Lord of x" or "Count of y" (where x and y refers to either factions or regions) in other mods. I also planned it as an add-on to the economical part later -making generals more worthy, but it also requires an almost complete revise on current traits system. I mean your generals can easily get really bad traits if just sitting in a town, and I always hated that.
Upon my research for the unit info pics, I found many small Warhammer-related symbols -mostly for the Empire, but there were elven ones as well. I just simply can't remember where, but if one have the army book and some more books, it's easy to use symbols from there.

Also, have you thought about free upkeep archers militia ?

Not only archers militia but some more I planned to change recruitment system a bit, making free upkeep militias easy to recruit, but -in order to avoid spamming militias everywhere, also adding free upkeep to special units, but greatly reducing their availability. Also, reducing r_p_o will cause the AI recruitment to be changed, and giving the player the choice of training militias in large number and spend money every turn to retrain and train more, or let him train a skilled army that he must take care of -with cultists, chaos brigades and faithful armies spawning, noone will feel safe in Ulthuan -no more safe settlements

Mate, as our ideas are close to each other, and you made a very good work with Anar+guilds submod, don't you think it should make sense to work together on improving Sundering a bit? I mean I'm not the guy to tell anyone what and how to do, I just feel that it's a bit of wasting to improve almost the same things in two separate sub-mods. I was just wondering to discuss our ideas together (and code them ), and we may see what it results. As Aragorn asked: "What say you?"

[rummtata]

I remember an old picture

Me too, that was like my first Warhammer picture ever. Cover of High Elves army book, uhm, 4th or 5th ed.? In the end I chose Wood Elves as my first faction to play with, can you believe it? At an age of 14 ^^ My friends in those days always tried to bash me with their Chaos and Orc armies. Meanies! But they never got around my treemen, oh no =D

The only pic I don't really like os the boar boyz.

I tried to avoid choosing a picture explicitly depicting a boss on a boar, it's supposed to represent regular cavalry after all. The one from the army book you posted would be fine though. If in doubt, we can put it to a vote ;-)

you gave me an idea: if any of the "good" factions is destroyed, the faithful survivors escape to the player (if he's playing "good" faction), and the player will be able to recruit special units of the destroyed factions in his capital...

Actually, that's not a bad idea at all (imho). I think it's both realistic and satisfiying gameplaywise. I'm for it.

I want to rework the frames of the unit pictures for each and every factions, being compatible with the UI of each factions.

My thought exactly. They should have unique borders which don't stand out within the visual context of the faction UI. Maybe we can already talk about colours? How about:

Skaven: brown
Orcs: dark green (come on, at least pretend you didn't expect that)
Dwarves: blue
Tomb Kings: black
Empire: red
Bretonnia: yellow/golden
High Elves: white
Dark Elves: purple
Wood Elves: light green
Chaos: gray

[Bela]

Me too, that was like my first Warhammer picture ever. Cover of High Elves army book, uhm, 4th or 5th ed.? In the end I chose Wood Elves as my first faction to play with, can you believe it? At an age of 14 ^^ My friends in those days always tried to bash me with their Chaos and Orc armies. Meanies! But they never got around my treemen, oh no =D

Cover of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 1997-1998... the original picture is called "The Battle for Maughtrond Pass".. it was so rare here in Hungary that time. Only a few couple of guys played it in the whole country... But my Orc armies and Dark Elf Corsairs destroyed all enemies

I tried to avoid choosing a picture explicitly depicting a boss on a boar, it's supposed to represent regular cavalry after all. The one from the army book you posted would be fine though. If in doubt, we can put it to a vote ;-)

Yep, and the warboss picture can be either later used in the SftOW as general's portrait and in events' pictures And it's always much better to use rather less known pictures, which are not so familiar to the players

Actually, that's not a bad idea at all (imho). I think it's both realistic and satisfiying gameplaywise. I'm for it.

Thanks mate, then it will be done!

My thought exactly. They should have unique borders which don't stand out within the visual context of the faction UI.

Yep!

Maybe we can already talk about colours? How about:
Skaven: brown
Orcs: dark green (come on, at least pretend you didn't expect that)
Dwarves: blue
Tomb Kings: black
Empire: red
Bretonnia: yellow/golden
High Elves: white
Dark Elves: purple
Wood Elves: light green
Chaos: gray

Green for orcs??! Never expected that My only problem is with the grey frame on a b&w picture. As I prefer Khorne, let it be red! Just kidding, if the grey looks good, let it be grey. I think this time a simple recoloring of the existing frame is OK, let it be released as soon as possible!
Otherwise it's OK, but I must check the ui folder's picture frames for the High Elf factions.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

But, you gave me an idea: if any of the "good" factions is destroyed, the faithful survivors escape to the player (if he's playing "good" faction), and the player will be able to recruit special units of the destroyed factions in his capital... hmmm.... not a perfect idea, but after being finished with the rest, I think it should worth to give it a try. What do you think?

I think this would be a great implementation. And I like the idea of crown and title ancillaries, they add so much character. It'd be some work, but even, at least for the Empire and maybe Bretonnia expanding that to be like in MOS for TATW, where there's multiple hidden family trees and inheritable titles, such as "Elector Count of Wissenland" which is generally hereditary, but if there isn't an existing one can be claimed by parking a general in the region capitol. Possibly, I dunno, kinda thinking out loud on that one, lol. Alternatively the Empire could be Teutonic (to represent the Elector Counts electing the next strongest leader amongst themselves), and titles would be granted simply by parking a general without another title in that capitol. Hmmmm, have to see how it'd work in 0.70.

Once I get ahold of some 0.70 assets I think I'll start doing some proof of concepts for different ideas I have and throw them by the team.

[Sephiroth91]

Also a great idea I always like to see the "Lord of x" or "Count of y" (where x and y refers to either factions or regions) in other mods. I also planned it as an add-on to the economical part later -making generals more worthy, but it also requires an almost complete revise on current traits system. I mean your generals can easily get really bad traits if just sitting in a town, and I always hated that.

Actually i was looking for some elven titles, but I found none excepted something for Nagarythe such as drachau or vaulkhar; also it's quite painful to scratch out from nothing a description for 70-80 settlements of which only a handful have a true history. I mean, to add a title for Lothern or Tor Anlec it's easy, for small villages such as Elisia and the like what can you write ? Probably I'll just stick to "this guy is lord of Elisia, a small village in Chrace" and we're done. Crown ancillaries are easy to do and I can do them easily in half an hour, but the rest is not.

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Mate, as our ideas are close to each other, and you made a very good work with Anar+guilds submod, don't you think it should make sense to work together on improving Sundering a bit? I mean I'm not the guy to tell anyone what and how to do, I just feel that it's a bit of wasting to improve almost the same things in two separate sub-mods. I was just wondering to discuss our ideas together (and code them ), and we may see what it results. As Aragorn asked: "What say you?"

I was half expecting your proposal It's not a bad idea, but the problem is in the nature of our submods: they're both a collectanea of minor tweaks and improvements, and they may be conflicting each other: for example I'm fine with the actual economy, and I'd change just the settlements growth rate. What if we have different views about our programs ? One of us may wish to change something that goes fine with the other. Basically I'm saying yes, but we should write down a clear program for the submod' purposes. One last thing: currently I'm working/playing with SS and I have some issues in my private life (read: Easter holidays and university), so for a couple of weeks I should be able to work out only small things. P.S. I hate the new forum's interface

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Where there's conflicts I think you should give options, either by simply having a 2 versions of certain files so the player can choose which economy to use, for instance, or if possible, an in game yes/no button like from the old Baron Samedi submod for Third Age Total War, or the enable Assassins button in CoW.

Basically, though, I'd like to see a single supersubmod, as long as the changes between them aren't radical.

[Sephiroth91]

^ Good idea, or even a setup launcher could be useful, so you can choose which options enable.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

^ Good idea, or even a setup launcher could be useful, so you can choose which options enable.

Yeah, like Stainless Steel where you can choose the AI aggressiveness, using BGR or not, etc.