Unit info card, economics boost + loyal allies submod for version 0.69

[Bela]

Based upon my gameplay experiences and the feedback of the community, I decided to make a little pack for the great The Sundering mod. Compatible with version 0.69!

The submod will contain four main elements:

1. Unit info cards. I realised that some cards were missing or the mod used the vanilla one, I made some research and collected many pictures of the units and agents in the game. I tried to follow the same path as the mod creaters did, using paintings and drawings from the army books mostly. This is my very first 2d work, so do not expect too much
In the meanwhile I received a helping hand from rummtata we will work on this part together

Here are some of the already done unit info cards, please leave your comments about them:

Random general:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Archers and militia archers of all factions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

New agent pictures: merchant

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The White Lion Pack (lions only unit!):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. Economic boost and gameplay enhance for both AI and the player. I found it a bit frustrating to run out of money all the time, and -based upon some comments here on the forum- it seems like I'm not alone with this problem Therefore I decided to change some features (like free upkeep for some more units for all factions) and building bonuses (in order to decrease unrest in cities). This is not that big change, but due to my lack of free time, some more testing is needed before the release.
The changes will not be the usual "give money to the AI if spent all", but rather a big change in building bonuses, maintaining and income from resources.

3. Loyal allies. Archaon's loyal allies script to be added -mostly. Most of you surely know this feature from other mods
I added this as I always hated to be attacked by my allies without prior notice. It will not happen again. First, you must send a diplomat and let the ally know that the alliance is over, you can only attack or be attacked after that. As the AI rarely uses its diplomats, some extra features will be added. If a faction is excommunicated, it will go to war with all other loyal factions, if it is reconciled, diplomatic stance will go back to neutral, and so on.
Also, it is not wise to forget the "rebel" part of the factions. If you become allied with the Phoenix King, you have to expect rebelling cultist armies to appear and drive you mad.... no more boring turns, no more peaceful years in Ulthuan. The civil war is on!
If playing as Nagarythe, you have to get prepared to unrest and rebelling if forming an alliance -or making a peace treaty- with any of the loyal factions.
Testing is still required, just as polishing the script. Screenshots and more details to be expected a bit later.

4. Small bug fixings like recruitment pools, agent recruitments, fort ownerships and so on. All that annoyed me during my campaigns. Details to be shown later.

As always, any feedback is greatly appreciated!


Last and most important: all credits to GW and -regarding unit info pictures- the great artists who made the drawings and paintings! All pieces collected are a praise to those who made it, it is their work and I think are the best art pieces of the Warhammer Universe.

Please remember to correctly credit the IP - "miniature © Games Workshop 2003. All rights reserved. Used without permission

this goes to all parts

TW credits:
The Sundering team
Archaon, my old friend who introduced me to modding MedII
for all who have helped

[rummtata]

Yay for The Sundering!

[TWmadman]

Great job mate!

I suggest you also try to make something to remove AI spamming militias. Indeed this is a great shame militia is spammed by AI when we made such number of good units. If you can reduce dratically the number of this type of unit recruited it would be great. This is one of our major achille talon. Maybe look over what other mods (like TATW, DLV, SS) did to avoid peasants/militias spamming.

Another thing i would suggest is to nerf the general units. They are far too powerful and they already have access to very strong ancillaries that boost their capabilities.
Maybe you should try to do like this :
- You give all generals classical Silver Helms (no hp boost, no atk/def boost)
- You give stronger version of cavalry when it is possible (ellyrian generals could use horselords as bodyguard, Knights of Anlec for Nagarothi generals. But still, no stats boost).

For economy, over the changes you mentioned i suggest you to heavily lower the cost of settlements upgrades aswell as number of turn for buildings over 6 turns. You should also lower heavily the % of demography of most settlements because it happens many many settlements grow far too fast and it is a problem for money managing and for some kind of "realism" aswell as gameplay.

I love your pics, they are stunning.

[Bela]

Great job mate!
I love your pics, they are stunning.

Thank you mate, although I must do something with this black line around the frame...

I suggest you also try to make something to remove AI spamming militias. Indeed this is a great shame militia is spammed by AI when we made such number of good units. If you can reduce dratically the number of this type of unit recruited it would be great. This is one of our major achille talon. Maybe look over what other mods (like TATW, DLV, SS) did to avoid peasants/militias spamming.

As long as I know, the main decisive point is in the edu's recruit_priority_offset and its recruitment cost (plus availability). Did you already try changing those?

Another thing i would suggest is to nerf the general units. They are far too powerful and they already have access to very strong ancillaries that boost their capabilities.
Maybe you should try to do like this :
- You give all generals classical Silver Helms (no hp boost, no atk/def boost)
- You give stronger version of cavalry when it is possible (ellyrian generals could use horselords as bodyguard, Knights of Anlec for Nagarothi generals. But still, no stats boost).

Thanks for the hints, I'll check what I can do to these

For economy, over the changes you mentioned i suggest you to heavily lower the cost of settlements upgrades aswell as number of turn for buildings over 6 turns. You should also lower heavily the % of demography of most settlements because it happens many many settlements grow far too fast and it is a problem for money managing and for some kind of "realism" aswell as gameplay.

Ah, OK! I didn't want to touch this part (yet ).... but now it seems like I'll have to Anyhow, I want to avoid the "wait 200 turns to recruit a good unit", so it will need lots of testing

[knight of meh]

can we add the fact that the player's merchants never survive a challenge as a bugfix?

and i am open to testing once you feel it's ready to see the light of day Bela...

or testing in general i don't mind

[TWmadman]

you cannot compare merchants from Chrace, Avelorn and other kingdoms knowns for their isolationism with Yvressian, Tiranocii, Eatainian merchants who travel the world and the colonies, and belongs to kingdoms which involved a lot in trading more than others.
There is no problem with player's merchants, but if you try to face an Yvressian merchant with your chracian merchant, do not expect him to win. In another hand if you play Eataine you will notice a huge asset given to your faction by investing in merchants and trading buildings.

[knight of meh]

:hmm that may be my problem then i like Avelorn but Corthique and Saphery keep stealing my ivory...

while i have your attention is the fact that Eataine dies in under 10 turns with great frequency a bug or is it the AI being stupid and putting it's generals in the capital were the get attacked and killed?

... and on that note has anyone mentioned Chrace just dying randomly ? i had this happen once and cannot recreate it , i was playing Chrace i wasn't at war and when i end turn i just die....

-also i pm'ed Kolwen just gotta wait now

[Sephiroth91]

Another thing i would suggest is to nerf the general units. They are far too powerful and they already have access to very strong ancillaries that boost their capabilities.
Maybe you should try to do like this :
- You give all generals classical Silver Helms (no hp boost, no atk/def boost)
- You give stronger version of cavalry when it is possible (ellyrian generals could use horselords as bodyguard, Knights of Anlec for Nagarothi generals. But still, no stats boost).

Honestly I don't agree with this, I find generals to be good as they're now, they're quite a few as now and it isn't possible to merge them into a general stack. It would be very nice to change their models though, I was planning to do that in my submod: same stats as standard bodyguards, but new models (Anlec Knights, Dragon Princes, Reavers).

[rummtata]

I've worked on the Skaven unit pics today, no border yet and for some there are alternatives from which I have yet to choose (opinions?); I can't find a pic for the slingers anywhere. I won't actually have to draw that one myself, will I? ^^

Preview:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[knight of meh]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-v246w_lmwE...an_slinger.png

how about this little guy

[rummtata]

He's adorable! But I'm not sure I can put in on my conscience to throw that one into the frey with his much meaner brothers and sisters... ^^

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Great pics. Hopefully you can find some slingers. I took a look through "The Loathsome Ratmen and all their Vile Kin" but couldn't find anything suitable for you.

[Bela]

you cannot compare merchants from Chrace, Avelorn and other kingdoms knowns for their isolationism with Yvressian, Tiranocii, Eatainian merchants who travel the world and the colonies, and belongs to kingdoms which involved a lot in trading more than others.

This is why there will be some traits and ancillaries added to the merchants of Yvresse, Tiranoc and Eataine in the economy pack

that may be my problem then i like Avelorn but Corthique and Saphery keep stealing my ivory...

Cruel times those were.... you have to use your assassins, or give a militia bodyguard unit to your merchants

is the fact that Eataine dies in under 10 turns with great frequency a bug or is it the AI being stupid and putting it's generals in the capital were the get attacked and killed?

I don't call that a bug, it's rather an unfinished script. If you try a campaign with them, the neighboring cultist army attacks you (8 out of 10 times), and you have the opportunity to call for aid (for 5000 gold) or try fighting the battle alone. The AI do not have this feature, and as it has a small family tree (I know as I made that ), it usually (6 out of 10) loses the battle and is destroyed.

So, let me ask you: do you want to see garrison script in the mod? I know it's unlikely from the mod makers, but it can solve situations like this. Give me your opinion, if most of you prefers this, I'll do this.

and on that note has anyone mentioned Chrace just dying randomly ? i had this happen once and cannot recreate it , i was playing Chrace i wasn't at war and when i end turn i just die

Hmmm, never seen it before...

Honestly I don't agree with this, I find generals to be good as they're now, they're quite a few as now and it isn't possible to merge them into a general stack. It would be very nice to change their models though, I was planning to do that in my submod: same stats as standard bodyguards, but new models (Anlec Knights, Dragon Princes, Reavers).

You mean to give them unique units on the battlefield or change their campaign strat modells? Adding unique bodyguard units is easy and improves gameplay, I was also wondering about it. But if you do this, please let me know, so I won't do that and we can avoid double work.

I've worked on the Skaven unit pics today, no border yet and for some there are alternatives from which I have yet to choose (opinions?); I can't find a pic for the slingers anywhere. I won't actually have to draw that one myself, will I? ^^

Great pics mate! I have to spread some rep before giving you again! I vote for Grey Seer 1, Plague Monks 2 and Poison WInd Globadiers 2! And don't worry on the Slings, we can add the picture from knight of meh as an easter egg! (or in worst case, you can change a clanrat's weapon to sling in PS )

[knight of meh]

So, let me ask you: do you want to see garrison script in the mod? I know it's unlikely from the mod makers, but it can solve situations like this. Give me your opinion, if most of you prefers this, I'll do this.

i will think on this today i'm not quite sure ... my thoughts so far

1)it would be great if AI Chrace ad Eataine actually stood a chance
2)it would slow down the campaign making it harder to take key settlements (good or bad i am not sure yet)
3)we would have to balance this with an economy that would let you build an army capable of taking the cities
4)would it make the Druchii impotent? because really de-fanging the only bad threat on the map would kill the fun
(that last point is playing on my mind i have played all factions as i love this mod but i keep coming back to Chrace , Avelorn and Elyrion as i have to make desperate last stands against Druchii stacks with them FUN!)

as for the pics i am for grey seer 1 (even though grey seer 3 looks bad ass)
plague monk 2 (does plague monk one have a bell on it's tail ? )
undecided 1 or 2 for posion wind definitely not 3

[Bela]

Poll added. Vote now!

Some comments on it:
-the Ai will have a bigger chance to stand the fight (the AI needs help, as always...)
-it will definitely make the campaign slower -making it harder to capture cultist settlements in early turns
-any release of the script will be done only after being tested with new economy system
-Nagarythe and Cultists will be at least as deadly as now. Do not forget that I will only release this if I find the solution for militia spamming. That will result armies smaller in number but will include high(er) tier units there.
-the garrison script is planned to add militia units only, and a slight decrease in population number (citizens-in-arms feature). I always hated in other mods to see the highest tier units appear in a town early game, and my full stack low-tier army will have no chance to capture the settlement.

[knight of meh]

i interrupt this sensible discussion to inform you that my post with the slinger skaven got 2 reps my highest ever

so i now proclaim his the answer to attracting rep cute furry RODENTS'S ASSEMBLE !!



p's my google chrome doesn't recognize the word "slinger" dam Americans

that's the end of the insanity for now

[Bela]

Heh, and I was one!

[knight of meh]

As long as I know, the main decisive point is in the edu's recruit_priority_offset and its recruitment cost (plus availability). Did you already try changing those?

i had some time played around with this


i just generally increased the recruit_priority_offset for elite and slowly lowered it on the militia

first attempt i bankrupted the Druchii bad times

second attempt i seem to have lowered the militia too much and they didn't recruit enough...

my observations from playing around for about 6-7 hrs this looks possible but it's going to require alot of fine tuning to get a balance between them recruiting enough low tier units to defend there land and not recruiting so many elites that they bankrupt themselves... so yea if i did my little test right and you want my help i forsee alot of play through's in our furtures

[Bela]

Try to do the following: set the basic score of recruit_priority_offset to 0 for all units of a faction (your choice). Set lowest tier unit (peasants) to -5. Set lowest tier archer to 0. Go through each and every unit and based upon your decision add values from 5 to 30. Then just lay back and see the results Then try changing recruitment costs with the same r_p_o values. Results will change
this is why there will be free_upkeep and some more small extras added. Changing only one value is a good start but simply not enough

Anyhow, based upon the change you made, were there much less militia armies lurking around?

Of course I need help with testing (I just do not have the free time for that). I'll get all the necessary files together in a few days for the unit training and economy part, and I'll pass it to you for testing. Does this sound good?

[knight of meh]

there were less militia lurking for sure , it took a while though had to barrel my way through there starting units .

i'm always here for testing

i will try your testing suggestions when i get home from this dam lab experiment i have in an hr (a.k.a a waste of my time)

i'll report back on what i find if you want i am starting my foray into modding now (also any tutorials , guides etc you think i should read feel free to link me )

p.s it's snowing here ... winter has come ... and bashed spring over the head...

Edit Arandir : Winter is coming