Tavern "The bloody Duke" (Gossip, simple Questions, Rumors, more)

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Still any news?

[Monguntiacum]

gigantus is back and will soon launch his search&destroy mission to get a bugfree mod, while we simple modders at infracta are working at "1237: Interregnum" and "Crusade Campaign Redesigned"
to say it like a german soldier: hope against hope and hold the line

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Yay! Well im getting the mod tomorrow, finally So I'll play and test a little to if I can

[knight of meh]

you still haven't got the mod ... say what

[Gigantus]

I hope to have a campaign_script file ready for testing in the next 3 days.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Awesome! Hope you get it going Gigantus!

And mi on dial up and get my girlfriend to download stuff for me We kinda messed up last month XD

Now I have it, and am playing as the Archbishopship of Breman Loving it so far, beautiful mod

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Well, im at turn 106 of my Bremen campaign Guess it'll be dead soon. Still, been loving it though

Anyway, what happened to Bremen in the Thirty Years War? The game seems to insinuate that they were made into Denmark chow, but ive done really good as them. Ive taken all Protestant Union cities in the area, and whatever territories that have turned Maurader. Trying to keep the Danes at peace..all while spamming Catholic Priests in their regions to cause problems, and trying to goad the Swedes into invading...hopefully so I can take over most of Denmark Or all of it. Bremenmark, FOR THE POPE!

[knight of meh]

Funny that because the peace that ended the 30 years war made Bremen the domain of Sweden

As far as i know denmark helped Sweden beat you down then changed sides in 1643 after a break and fought for the imperials but was defeated and as said above at the peace treaty you were ceded to sweden

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Poor Bremen Oh well, once Gigantus releases the new patch, I'll lead the Archbishopship to Glory! Catholicism will reign across Northern Germany!

I might play as the Swedes or Polish next, really loving this mod. But maybe I shouldnt over play it when I can only play 100 turns XD

BTW, do either of the patches(I accidentally gave the card with them back to my girlfriend XD) change the victory conditions? 60 territories for a short campaign is pretty big. I think 35-40 depending on Faction size might be better

Edit: Oh, what are the minor cities for? Just more flavourful forts, or do they provide any money?

[Gigantus]

So far I have not been able to pin point the problem to any particular monitor of the script within the range where the save crash happens. Right now I am reducing the script to the basics ("control monitors") plus the 'Kalendar' (monthly historic_events, historic battles) and the fort names.

I'll run that through a test and if it works I'll release that as an interim script. I am doing my testing right via hot seat and giving control of my faction to the AI (console - 'give_control [faction name]). That takes about one hour to get past round 110 instead of a whole day, but it will require 'live' testing.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Brutal Well, feel good, this mod is grade A number 1 epic. Im loving it to death <3 So I'll be happy even with just a quickfix patch to keep it going

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Oh, I have some history stuff to discuss

Whats up with the Archbishopship of Bremen being Catholic? As best as I can tell, the Prince Bishops had been Lutheran for awhile, and the populace may have been Lutheran too. But maybe it was nominally Catholic due to well, being an Archbishopry?

Not thats I mind too much XD

Also, what would the folks here say the Thirty Years War was really about, religion or good old political power struggles?

[knight of meh]

just an aside on Bremen as with most of the empire at the onset it was multicultural the city itself was calvinist and the administrator of the bishopric was lutheran while obviously there was catholics... the problem with choosing them a side is that for most of the war they tried to stay out of hostilities it's only when the war came to them them emperor trying to destroy the hanseatic league etc that they got in the fight .

so it depends on the mods timeframe at the start they were decidedly not on any side
then they were under control of the catholic league and the emperor
then the swedes helped kick out the emperor

(broadly speaking)

answer to part two

the war had many different people involved you have to remember that i think historians divide it into three-four periods to make it manageable..

first is the bohemian revolt which was about religion they were afraid the emperor would try and reinstate catholicism as an absolutist religion , the palatinate at this point was certainly about political power through ;
an interesting aside to this is that it was also about religion to the austrians at the start because the emperor was a pious man... a dangerous thing to be in that day and age

second and third part of the war was the danish and swedish interventions ; these two were almost certainly politically . What motivated the danes was the thought that their sovereignty was being challenged by the imperial success by 1625 and religion was just the threat that seemed like the most viable excuse to enter into the war , because if they used their claim on the duchy of Holstein (that was inside the empire) they would just be another rebel were as now they had the moral high ground

the swedes really wanted the baltic territories and religion was an excuse really to try out there new army against a weak empire to try and get some territory , although when they declared war i think they stated an end to aggression against german lutherans in their aims


and then finally there is france the most politically motivated of them all... france at the time was surrounded by two habsburg empires
the holy roman empire and spain lead by the emperor's nephew if i am not mistaken so they were surrounded by enemies in the netherlands , germany , italy and spain

france really didn't care about religion actually supporting the protestant cause by financing sweden and such even while they put down rebels inside their own territory

and my little mammoth post is done

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

I have read more on the English Civil War than the 30 Years' War but my feeling is that there was a broader education at this period, however not as objective as in our times. It would seem that philosophy (both ancient philosophers and contemporary philosophers) and rhetoric were taught so that one could use arguments to back up their own beliefs, rather than to seek an objective truth. In practice this meant that people with a certain view whether on religion or politics, rather than using education to question their own views, instead used what they had learnt to support it with arguments, which were sometimes trivial or even ridiculous by modern standards. There was little room for toleration, when people were not willing to critically evaluate their own beliefs. I sense that both the Kaiser as well as Frederick V believed they were instruments of righteousness (not doubting that their sincerely held views could only possibly be correct) and that they had been entrusted by God to uphold the correct form of religion. Part of the cause of the war was perhaps the style of education rather than politics or religion.

[Sephiroth91]

I have read more on the English Civil War than the 30 Years' War but my feeling is that there was a broader education at this period, however not as objective as in our times. It would seem that philosophy (both ancient philosophers and contemporary philosophers) and rhetoric were taught so that one could use arguments to back up their own beliefs, rather than to seek an objective truth. In practice this meant that people with a certain view whether on religion or politics, rather than using education to question their own views, instead used what they had learnt to support it with arguments, which were sometimes trivial or even ridiculous by modern standards. There was little room for toleration, when people were not willing to critically evaluate their own beliefs. I sense that both the Kaiser as well as Frederick V believed they were instruments of righteousness (not doubting that their sincerely held views could only possibly be correct) and that they had been entrusted by God to uphold the correct form of religion. Part of the cause of the war was perhaps the style of education rather than politics or religion.

Having just given an exam today about modern age and the Thirty Years War, I can say you're right. I'll add two things:

1) Before the war there was a great messianic expectation upon Frederick V; since it was the centenary since Luther's reform they all had a sense something very important was coming, and it's just in the years before it that the Rosenkreutz stuff came out and thus a great revival of esoterism, magic and neo-platonism underwent in germany, just look at Rodolphus II. Also, in the 40s in England many believed that between the civil war and the thirty years the Apocalypse was at hand, since the latter looked very much as a deadly duel between catholicism and reformation.

2) It's also in these years that footnotes were created: since the Renaissance filology had caused much scepticism in the 16th century (just look at Laurentius Valla) writers and editors began to add them as a farther proof of what they were claiming (or they just used them just to make the reader think they were right; I seriously doubt every footnote they put in was correct....).

3) As a curiosity the TYW also had consequences in Italy, because it mixed up with the war of mantuan succession and kept busy many imperial/spanish troops for a while; also the passage of the landsknechts in Lombardy caused the bubonic plague of the 1629-31 in Milan, halving its population (all italians know about it 'cause of t "The betrothed").

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Im curious, why is Prince Ferdinand hidden in the diplomat area?

And what is Jaghschloss?

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

A Jagdschloss is a hunting lodge and it is the perfect place for the foreign emissaries to have a day out and meet each other in a relaxed atmosphere.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Hah! For some reason I thought that too

On that note then, why are there multiple ones? Theres one near Stade in Bremen. Do they do anything, or are they just there for decoration?

[Gigantus]

Each faction has one - this is were the faction leaders are the beginning of the game, keeping in mind the suicidal tendencies of the AI. The player's faction leader gets moved at the beginning of the game, next to the capital.

Come to think of: this will most likely have to be adjusted for a Hot Seat competition unless the script considers every player as 'local'. For those interested, it's this part in the script: === Erben freistellen ===

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Neat! So I'll never see any AI faction leaders take the field?