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Thread: Difficult to start?

  1. #1

    Icon5 Difficult to start?

    Hi,

    I tried this mod with several factions, and with most of these, you begin with a reasonable army, but not powerful enough to deal with the HUGE rebel armies: each settlement seems to be protected by 2 full-stack armies!

    So, is there a particular tip to have a good start in CATW?

    Cheers,

    Archesel

  2. #2

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Well I found that sometimes the garrisons in rebel settlements often leave the city, when this Happens I make my move to capture the settlement. Other times I wait for another faction to attack the settlement and deplete the garrison for me so capturing it is not as difficult. Atleast that is what I do, depends on your play style really.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    I think b257 has your question answered. One other way would be to focus on other civilizations instead of rebels, generally rebels won't attack unless the opportunity is simply to good to resist. If you are playing alexander.exe the AI is much more reasonable and at least one surrounding faction near you will likely make an alliance with you and keep it for a period of time and in that period of time attack and consolidate another faction's territory.

    Next release will have more armies for player and AI at the start. However to portray the extremely unstable situation politically it will be very difficult to establish a secure foothold in enemy territories without opening your own territories up to enemy advancements but a few independent territories will still be a viable option. These independent territories represent the many political entities and factions we could not represent in CATW, they are not rebel's and that is the reason for them being huge. Every choice at the start that you make is builds or destroys the basis of your empire and that is why I find the start very fun it puts you in the shoes of the great civilizations that started out with many enemies and came out to be huge empires like the Roman's.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Thank you both for your answers. So you recommand to use the Alex.exe?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Yes I do for the strat map AI, it is improved by a noticeable margin.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Rebel forces should be decreased to a half-stack, full-stack is too much.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Rebel forces should be decreased to a half-stack, full-stack is too much.
    I believe they have full stacks to keep the AI from becoming a superpower too early on in the campaign. Which I think is rather nice and it allows you to take you time and enjoy the game and not have to worry about being attacked on every front untill about midway through the game.

    Also Resef stated above that another reason is that they are not to be portrayed as rebels but rather other civilizations that you can conqure and bring into your empire.
    Last edited by Evalation; March 06, 2013 at 06:30 AM.
    "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion." - Alexander the Great

  8. #8

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evalation View Post
    I believe they have full stacks to keep the AI from becoming a superpower too early on in the campaign. Which I think is rather nice and it allows you to take you time and enjoy the game and not have to worry about being attacked on every front untill about midway through the game.

    Also Resef stated above that another reason is that they are not to be portrayed as rebels but rather other civilizations that you can conqure and bring into your empire.
    Even small civilizations didnt have 2 full stacks running around making computers lag.

    Full Stack rebels is a huge turn off, it deters me from playing.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    I partially agree with SuperTechmarine, all "free" cities seem to have enormous armies, so all playable factions are not equal towards that: although boii or macedon (for example) have important starting armies or enough provinces to build these, Hayasdan haven't the power to fight their surrounding rebels, nor the seleucids as boh have strong garrisons including elephants!

    It may be interesting to rebalance starting forces for several factions, don't you think so?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    In the next version all factions will have a decent army starting size and the region's and borders are recalibrated. Coco did not implement all armies he wanted too, he had plan too but did not fully integrate them. Anarchon has now not only integrated them but redrawn regional borders to make it more interesting, rather than just fighting the minor nations (independant cities) you will now have a choice between their harder to break cities and other factions.

    I do not want to be able to do blitzkrieg tactics on independant nations since right now Pergamun, Nabataeans and other powerful minor nations who were rich and able to muster mercanaries to bolster their armies were portrayed as 2 unit rebels. Thus the 2 full sized stack armies in some regions like the gallic area in asia minor which is also realistic due to the large scale immigration of gauls to that area. It is also there to make the game a challange to the player and force them into making strategetic choices and also stop AI superpowers from developing to early in the game.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    There are also updates to troop numbers of the independent nations. Only a few regions will now have the full 2 stacks and for those they are there not only to balance the campaign but as stated several times add to the realism and difficulty.

    There are still enough troops to make it a hard endeavor if you are careless with your troops to take the independent cities but no longer shall it be a fearsome task with your starting army.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    I think capital free regions should have the full stack, other secondary regions should have a Quarter to a Half Stack.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    I think capital free regions should have the full stack, other secondary regions should have a Quarter to a Half Stack.
    I think that may be a little too easy. I believe Resef is doing it like this so that it actually may take a bit of planning to conqure a independent nation. It is a strategy game afterall,So its supposed to be hard and make you think and plan things before you do anything.
    "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion." - Alexander the Great

  14. #14

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resef View Post
    There are also updates to troop numbers of the independent nations. Only a few regions will now have the full 2 stacks and for those they are there not only to balance the campaign but as stated several times add to the realism and difficulty.

    There are still enough troops to make it a hard endeavor if you are careless with your troops to take the independent cities but no longer shall it be a fearsome task with your starting army.
    This choice seems well-crafted, i hope i will confirm this when i'll try the next release

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archesel View Post
    Hi,

    I tried this mod with several factions, and with most of these, you begin with a reasonable army, but not powerful enough to deal with the HUGE rebel armies: each settlement seems to be protected by 2 full-stack armies!

    So, is there a particular tip to have a good start in CATW?

    Cheers,

    Archesel
    Yes. It's VERY EASY mod right now.
    I can give you example with Macedon, I like to play. Let's start in Macedon spring 302 BC.

    Look around carefully, especially what you get. In Pella you can produce only 4 land units. One is especially useful - Pandotapoi (50 upkeep cost means it's very cost effective militia). Build it to free other units to combat tasks. I use it as city sitters, until I can put there 40 upkeep unit.



    Then look at the buildings. You CAN build 1st level mercenary barracks (3 turns, 3200 money). It has good troops, but the trick is +3 experience points it gives to ALL units formed in city.

    After this one, build in Pella 2nd level mercenary barracks (5 turns, 5500 money): you will get +5 experience to all units, +2 to light weapons, + armor, etc.

    If you think it's not enough (how +5 exp cannot be enough?) - build ARES temples. When you will have 3rd level of Ares temple, you will have ADDITIONAL +4 experience points to all formed units in that city. It's effectively +9 experience points for all. So you start pumping out elite trained units against those rebels

    There's also a trick how to make them all with +3 armor +3 weapons, so you will have ALL GOLDEN ARMY against opponents.

    It takes only 14 turns. I suggest to just sit and do nothing in that time beside building up Pella and recruiting units, then re-train them all in Pella and crush enemies. The near enemies are in Greece and Epiros.

    PS: The second trick.
    If you really need ALL GOLDEN army, you need to use 3 cities instead Pella. Corinth for blacksmith/armourer, Larissa for missile temple and Pella for experience buildings. With those 3 cities you can rule the world, as NO AI PLAYER can have ALL GOLDEN army before 15th turn.

    Train units in Pella, re-train in Corinth for amour, then re-train missile units in Larisa for weapons. But after some turns you can build armourer in Pella too, so there will be less re-training

    All golden army against 2 full stacks of rebels is just a pleasure

    This is my starting army in 297 BC (ąround 20th turn). I used standard phalanx units that were available in cities from the start and a few mercenaries.


    This is my army a few turns later in 294 BC. New units were recruited and trained to gold. Still no golden armour though


    This is year 288 Before Christ. Greece is mine and Epiros is on the verge of destruction. My golden boys are waiting for trip to southern Italy. What is STRANGE - phalanx unit set as missile, so its default action is skirmish during battle Rather annoying.


    I hope that info helps
    Last edited by Hanti; March 09, 2013 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Experience/costs...yeah, balance is undergoing heavy rework for next version lots of long hours have been spent staring,changing and rearranging them. (and are still in fact being spent *rubs eyes*)

    As for Iphkrates read their description and you will find out why since there is included much history in descriptions of the units.

    edit: That version that you use, which one is it? 1.0? 1.1 is available for download by now check download section Reason I am wondering is the faction colours have a tiny difference I see but it could just be a trick of the light when compared to this picture (but then this picture is an early preview of the next version)...

    Last edited by z3n; March 09, 2013 at 05:17 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resef View Post
    Experience/costs...yeah, balance is undergoing heavy rework for next version lots of long hours have been spent staring,changing and rearranging them. (and are still in fact being spent *rubs eyes*)

    As for Iphkrates read their description and you will find out why since there is included much history in descriptions of the units.

    edit: That version that you use, which one is it? 1.0? 1.1 is available for download by now check download section Reason I am wondering is the faction colours have a tiny difference I see but it could just be a trick of the light when compared to this picture (but then this picture is an early preview of the next version)...
    I use CLASSICAL-AGE 1.1.5 (gfx is AMD Radeon HD 7800 series).


    Iphikrates is a good unit (I use it!) but should be set as light or heavy infantry, not missile infantry. Same as Roman legionaries (they are heavy infantry with throwing abilities). I think Iphikrates have a little too short range for their missiles though. Some weird things are happening with their throwing animation as well.

    Setting them as missile unit make their default behaviour as skirmish, not battle line infantry, which is wrong, I think. They just try to throw javelins and run away when enemy comes closer.
    Last edited by Hanti; March 10, 2013 at 05:28 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    They are actually peltasts, equipped with a larger shield and spear but have javelins available too. Iphikrates was an Athenian who basically revolutionized this way of fighting. Throwing animation can't be helped hard code problem, as for short range I will look into it and stop them from the running.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Difficult to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanti View Post
    (...)
    Iphikrates is a good unit (I use it!) but should be set as light or heavy infantry, not missile infantry. Same as Roman legionaries (they are heavy infantry with throwing abilities). I think Iphikrates have a little too short range for their missiles though. Some weird things are happening with their throwing animation as well.

    Setting them as missile unit make their default behaviour as skirmish, not battle line infantry, which is wrong, I think. They just try to throw javelins and run away when enemy comes closer.
    More tests proves that Macedonian Iphikrates Hoplitai (white unit) works just fine and acts as phalanx. The problem was only with Mistophoroi Iphikrates hoplitai (colour unit) which acts as skirmisher/archer. So something has wrongly been set up in code.

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