Legionary's Tunic

**tiepilot98** · June 06, 2015, 12:25 PM

Why most legionaries have a white tunic? Is it historically?
"The most extensive study thus far is by Graham Sumner in his book Roman Military Clothing Part I. His array of evidence suggests that the average Roman legionary possessed at least two tunics – a red one for wear under his armor, and an undyed white or off-white tunic for all other occasions".

**dvk901** · June 06, 2015, 09:07 PM

The only evidence that exists....that is, actual archeological evidence, concerning what the Romans wore or purchased in terms of tunics is a record for the purchase of 100,000 white tunics. I can't tell you where that comes from, because it's lost in the vast array of information in our Dev forums (and the search feature on this site is horrid), but it was all we could find that mentioned any kind of tunic.

Now, one could speculate about what was meant by 'white'......common sense suggests that it was the 'off-white' you are talking about....but it is the reason we chose to stick with that.

**tiepilot98** · June 07, 2015, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by dvk901

The only evidence that exists....that is, actual archeological evidence, concerning what the Romans wore or purchased in terms of tunics is a record for the purchase of 100,000 white tunics. I can't tell you where that comes from, because it's lost in the vast array of information in our Dev forums (and the search feature on this site is horrid), but it was all we could find that mentioned any kind of tunic.

Now, one could speculate about what was meant by 'white'......common sense suggests that it was the 'off-white' you are talking about....but it is the reason we chose to stick with that.

But white tunics could be purchased for non-combat wear.

**dvk901** · June 07, 2015, 09:29 AM

Every study or book that was referenced by our team dealt with the Roman military of the late Republic or the early Empire, but as far as anyone knows, all of this is simply conjecture, since no clothing has survived or been found from the era that RS2 covers. There have been significant finds from later periods, but not actual physical evidence from our era. However, the surviving government record of the purchase I mentioned above was a physically surviving record from that era, showing that these tunics were purchased by the Roman government for its legions. So by and large, we chose to show legionaries in white tunics, although not all of them are.

Various authors and historians may 'surmise' what was worm for whatever reason....but the fact is that the only archeological evidence for the purchase of ANY tunic was for 'white'.

**ur-Lord Tedric** · June 10, 2015, 04:26 AM

Realistically - plain and common materials -> bleached in urine (pretty common too

) -> off-white and scrubbed a lot -> simply standard leading to 'uniformity', but still the cheapest.

Adding dye becomes more expensive.

Under the Empire, however, it is 'commonly believed' that the legions wore red; whereas the Preatorians (with certain other anachronistic features like still having a somewhat curved scutum and hinting strongly of the past) wore finely bleached white.

**Sint** · June 14, 2015, 08:16 AM

Under the Empire, however, it is 'commonly believed' that the legions wore red;

Is there actually any source for that apart from: People saw it in movies and thought it looked cool?

**ur-Lord Tedric** · June 16, 2015, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sint

Is there actually any source for that apart from: People saw it in movies and thought it looked cool?

It's not something I specifically looked for in my studies for an amateur thesis I may still finish......

However, I believe there is some supportive evidence. Try the 'Roman Army Talk' forum.

**Graham Sumner** · September 22, 2015, 06:17 PM

"The most extensive study thus far is by Graham Sumner in his book Roman Military Clothing Part I. Actually the most extensive study is my book Roman Military Dress 2009. "Is there actually any source for that apart from: People saw it in movies and thought it looked cool? " Many Roman epic movies show legionaries in white tunics. If you are interested in Movie Romans you can follow my series in Ancient Warfare magazine. "The only evidence that exists....that is, actual archeological evidence, concerning what the Romans wore or purchased in terms of tunics is a record for the purchase of 100,000 white tunics. I can't tell you where that comes from, because it's lost in the vast array of information in our Dev forums (and the search feature on this site is horrid), but it was all we could find that mentioned any kind of tunic." Obviously you have not read 'Roman Military Dress'. There is also no document which records the purchase of 100,000 white tunics! "the Preatorians (with certain other anachronistic features like still having a somewhat curved scutum and hinting strongly of the past) wore finely bleached white." There is no specific mention of Praetorians wearing bleached white tunics but there are several sources which mention 'soldiers' wearing bleached white tunics for parades. "Every study or book that was referenced by our team dealt with the Roman military of the late Republic or the early Empire", 'Roman Military Dress' covers the later period too, so presumably was not read by your team. I hope this clears up some points. Graham.

**dvk901** · September 23, 2015, 10:27 AM

Well, since I can't find the reference I referred to, this will have to do:

Which is just one of a number of papyrus references to 'white fine wool tunics' being purchased for the Roman Army. We never found any references to any other color.

**Graham Sumner** · September 23, 2015, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the reply. If you do recover the evidence for 100,000 white tunics please let me know. I am compiling material for a second edition of 'Roman Military Dress' and will include any additional information that is supported by reliable sources. A forum post is not large enough to include all the evidence for a particular subject and I often find people posting one piece of evidence giving the impression that, that is all there is. That is why I compiled all the evidence I could find for 'Roman Military Dress', that related to clothing colour. I found over 150 examples. The papyrus example you posted above from my earlier book which mentions one tunic, is clearly not the example for 100,000 tunics and as you quite rightly say is also not the only Papyrus from Egypt which refers to white tunics. The Scriptores Historiae Augustae (SHA) mentions red military tunics several times. 'Roman Military Dress' also includes several archaeological examples of red tunics. Recent archaeological excavations at the first century fort of Dydymoi in Egypt found the remains of several tunics. They were either undyed or dyed red. If you mention red or white, people tend to assume these simply mean two shades. However white un-dyed wool could be any shade from a dirty white to yellow brown, while red even if dyed could be a variety of shades depending on the dye. It could even be un-dyed wool. So even if Roman soldiers were all equipped in red it would be far from uniform. Graham.

**dvk901** · September 24, 2015, 12:47 PM

I absolutely agree with you. When we were researching for RS2, admittedly, our resources and time and people were limited to 'whatever we could find'. But even so, one will note that not all of our Legions have white tunics anyway....some have red, and even a blue. So we didn't necessarily stick to any strict interpretation of what we found.

I do wish I could find that reference I mentioned about the 100000 tunics....it's in our Dev forums somewhere, but since this site changed the forum software it uses, the search function is a joke and you can't find anything.