Germania: the Nation that Defeated Rome

[Birk]

Since there is so much speculation about the battle of Teutoburg. I recommend you to watch this for some history lesson about Arminius. Arminius was born in Germania, taken as hostage by Rome, become knight of Rome, turned against Rome and defeated Rome (3 Legions).

[weirdoascensor]

Germania's a Nation?
In 9?

[Birk]

Germania's a Nation?
In 9?

It was known as Germania by the Romans. Blame Julius Caesar for calling all the tribes for Germania.

[Ritterlichvon86]

Germania was no nation until the First Reich (which included other people too as a multi"national" monarchic state), and then only again during the Second Reich over Weimarian Republic to the Third Reich. A number of people, properly described as tribes with national character, weakened and stormed the Western Roman Empire over the span of several hundreds of years.

Edit:

I almost forgot. Big thanks for the video Birk.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Funny. They took the footage directly from this German docu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHzMVQx4GMs which was more told a movie. Funny that English people use German Material. The most time is the opposite.

In the original German docu, their is nowhere mentioned anything about a nation. Maybe they made a translation error.

[Meraun]

lol Germania as a Nation^^

i quite sure late roman empire had worse losses against Sassanids.

Many different tribes and nations defeated the romans several times. nothing special about the "Germans"

[Birk]

Funny. They took the footage directly from this German docu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHzMVQx4GMs which was more told a movie. Funny that English people use German Material. The most time is the opposite.

In the original German docu, their is nowhere mentioned anything about a nation. Maybe they made a translation error.

It's just the title. People wouldn't watch if it said "Cherusci the tribe that defeated Rome..."

[Jepekula]

Well, they might have used "Nation" as a collection of different tribes and peoples, not as a single, large geo-political unit of said tribes and peoples (state).

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

It's just the title. People wouldn't watch if it said "Cherusci the tribe that defeated Rome..."

Better would be to say the Germanic Tribes, which actually describes it well. I also find it allways bad that they allways only mention Teutoburg. Many forget that he fought the Romans several Years since that point. At the pontes Longi he defeated them allmost that terrible than Teutoburg again and at the Angrivarierwall, he and Germanicus had a Draw which resulted in so heavy looses that Germanicus directly retreated to the Rhine and never came back.

[Birk]

lol Germania as a Nation^^

i quite sure late roman empire had worse losses against Sassanids.

Many different tribes and nations defeated the romans several times. nothing special about the "Germans"

Did they run around half naked, selling blond hair and killing the romans with there bare fists and with clubs? I don't think so!

[Meraun]

Did they run around half naked, selling blond hair and killing the romans with there bare fists and with clubs? I don't think so!

Well half of the continent did that.

[geala]

To Arminius, it is not entirely clear wether he was made a Roman knight (Velleius told so). It is pure speculation that he served in the Roman army. He perhaps led some auxiliary troops, which were much more independent at that early date than later on.

The clades Variana has to be seen together with the later events in 15/16 AD when Germanicus tried to reconquer the Germania or at least punish Arminius and the rebellious tribes. It is astonishing that the Romans did not succeed and abandoned a territory so easily for which they had struggled hard from 12 BC onwards. It was never a "German" success because it is highly improbable that there was a common view of the several tribes as "Germans". So you should write "Nine Germanic tribes: the Peoples who Defeated Rome".

[Der Phönix]

Germania's a Nation?
In 9?

Germania was no nation until the First Reich (which included other people too as a multi"national" monarchic state), and then only again during the Second Reich over Weimarian Republic to the Third Reich. A number of people, properly described as tribes with national character, weakened and stormed the Western Roman Empire over the span of several hundreds of years.

lol Germania as a Nation^^

i quite sure late roman empire had worse losses against Sassanids.

You are confusing the term "nation" with "nation state". A nation is defined as a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history. In this definition, a nation has no physical borders.

Many different tribes and nations defeated the romans several times. nothing special about the "Germans"

Indeed, but only the Germanics defeated Rome.

[RoyalNobody]

Indeed, but only the Germanics defeated Rome.

Except all those other peoples who defeated Rome.

[Stavroforos]

I didn't realize Arabs, Turks, Huns, were Germans.

[Der Phönix]

Except all those other peoples who defeated Rome.

So the Roman Empire was defeated more than once?

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Except all those other peoples who defeated Rome.

I think he thought about the fact that they not defeated rome in the meaning of some battles, they defeated rome and stayed unconquered which the Germanic Tribes have only in common with Parthia. All other peope were finally conquered.

[Megasalexandros]

By the writings of Julius Caesar it is absolutely clear both Gauls and Germans even if they were immensely seperated they did had a common sense of nationhood and they did thought of themselves as being part of a common heritage, thats why for eg Vercingetorix united all the gauls, or thats why Caesar thought of them as a national group or thats why the Germans were feared as such and not as separated tribes by the Gauls.
They were not unified but they had a common sense of nationhood undoubtedly.

[Ritterlichvon86]

By defeating Rome, we are talking about strategically defeating Rome, destroying it, plundering it. Not about winning battles. Carthage also won many battles and defeated Legions, yet they did not defeat Rome.

I do not recall any "Snackbars, Turks or Huns" destroying and plundering Rome.

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

I think it takes more than a battle to speak of defeating Rome. Defeating a Roman army and defeating Rome is miles apart.

By defeating Rome, we are talking about strategically defeating Rome, destroying it, plundering it.

I do not recall any "Snackbars, Turks or Huns" destroying and plundering Rome.

Outliving is not defeating or destroying. And plundering a city is not defeating or destroying either. How many Germanic settlements did the Romans plunder for five centuries, how many tribes did they enslave and wipe off the map completely? Of all the Germanic tribes who later occupied lands of the western empire only the Franks lived to tell the tale. And the Franks did not beat any Roman armies or plunder Rome to do that, they moved in a power vacuum that distingeration of the imperial authority in Gaul created and defeated other rival factions, Burgundians, Visigoths, Romanised Gauls. Those who did defeat Roman armies and plunder Rome itself, the Visigoths and the Vandals, were eradicated, by the Arabs and the eastern half of the empire respectively (which also annihilated the Ostrogoths and the Alans).