Why are people getting their toga's in a twist? (wohey) Is it a matter of principle? Do you know think they will be fun to use? Or will your single minded desire for historical accuracy impair your gaming experience.
Trust me, just sit back and enjoy whatever they reveal and just play the game at face value - you will enjoy it more. Pedantic nitpicking and ranting about factions/wardogs/homoerotic German muscles will just set yourself up for dissapointment.
It is not a matter of principle whatever what could it means. Not even one of "historical accuracy". I liked masks used by samurai units and other extravagant outfits despite the fact that they were not used in battle for good reasons. Neither did how battles happen in Shogun 2 really bothered me in term of accuracy.
But units of 200 war dogs seen on the field is the kind of immersion breaker I don't like to see. I don't find them fun. I don't think they had anything interesting. There are just here without much reasons.
As for diversity I don't think any of use is bothered by this after Shogun 2. I can only be better. And until we see half of the mountainous tribes in Anatolia and Middle East I don't thin there is need for Easter Eggs units "to improve diversity"
And lest be honest. How many people would ask for war dogs if they were not present in RTW ?
Can I just state that my first response to this thread's OP was 'Eff you, that's why'. Anywho; I want wardogs. I've said so about....
Ten minutes later...
...a million goddamn times in in this thread alone. And, judging from the poll, 81 people want them in. Stop trying to enforce your views on someone else. Don't like war dogs? Don't want them in? Don't buy the game. Don't play the factions that use them. Hell, play the factions and simply don't build them.
Why? 'Cos your mother!
The dog was the earliest domesticated animal, and bringing them to battle is entirely rational for a hunter-warrior society like the Germans.
And these dogs are trained not to kill :
Basically war dogs doesn't strike me as
"fun," they strike me as annoying. Like those explosive Kisho Ninja: "Hahaha lulz just threw a big bomb in you face!" Juvenile fun, maybe. Adult fun? Not really.
There is no exact parameter for 'Fun', it depends on the person. Some people enjoy football, some enjoy rugby and others tennis. You just cannot pigeon-hole an entire demographic based on your own opinion.
I could certainly see loads of adults enjoying the usage of wardogs, it would be a break from using infantry and the like and they would have great animations and all sorts. At the same time the historical elitists that frequent this forum would certainly not enjoy them and complain that they took valuable development time away from more "worthy" unit - subjectivity is totally dominating this thread.
And yes, in general dopey stunts tend to appeal to young teens and tend to be less appealing to grown ups. Not an ironclad rule, mind you.
Look I'm sure lot's of people are gonna love it. They'd probably love all sorts of crazy units in the game especially if they played RTW and RTW had those units. Heck, they'd be disappointed if war dogs and pigs and berserkers were missing. Doesn't make me want to buy the game though.
Last edited by Huberto; February 27, 2013 at 05:17 PM.
By the way I am relatively used to contact with dogs. I know very well what an untrained dog could do to a human let alone what could it gives if the dog was trained to kill and his race selected for this role.
TW always represented pinned-battles and pinned-battles only. Even "siege battles" are assault without proper siege operations. Those things were a little represented on the campaign map until M2TW and that's it. Everything else isn't directly present in TW including all the dominant roles dogs were and still are able to carry. Dogs have pretty much nothing to do in TW battles except appear as some kind of active units and general retinue.
Last edited by Anna_Gein; February 27, 2013 at 05:23 PM.
Yeah, that's a more realistic size unit for them.
War dogs are a silly unit-no records of them being used by the Germanic tribes, or anyone else IIRC.
Although one silly unit is better than dozens of silly units. I'll just mod them out as soon as mod tools whether official or fan made become available.
I could certainly do without the Wardog Unit. Maybe in a detailed tactical situation they might make a bit of sense but I don't think they fit well in the TW form of gameplay. If they had a mixed unit of Wardogs with handlers then it would be ok I guess but having a loose pack of dogs tearing up the battlefield like a school of baracuda is a bit much. Same with Burning Pigs and other silly stuff. Just because some odd form of warfare occurred in a few instances does not justify having it as a unit in TW. They are just not needed imo.
Hundreds of different cultures? lol
Syrians, Jews, Bastarnae, Triballi whatever - they are all men, but Dogs are totally different and add variation to the physical aspect of the game.
They might not even be a unit - they may be an ancillary or retainer for a general's unit.
Last edited by Sharpe; February 27, 2013 at 06:19 PM.
"Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial."
I think the main problem is the lack of proper sources. If we are only to go by what was written about the tribes in questioning we would end up with three different units. A warband unit with an assortment of random weapons including bows, spears and axes, Some sort of elite bodyguard unit and a cavalry unit. Ancient sources have a way of simplifying actual facts, and in many cases the author was not even present or even living in the same period.
That is why CA flavors things with berserkers, night hunters and wardogs. All of which are fringe material, maybe, but not illogical at all, and they all offers interesting and unique tactical possebilities. Like for example releasing the dogs of war on fleeing enemies or breaking the roman lines with cult-warriors like the "berserkers"
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