View Poll Results: Do you happy that you will see wardogs in Rome 2?

Voters
249. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    177 71.08%
  • No

    72 28.92%
Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 264

Thread: Wardogs... Why?!?

  1. #141
    MemnonOfRhodes's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,923
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Basically here is the answer - CA said they would be bringing in rare/unusual units for diversity purposes ETC. There is a chance that wardogs were used and thus, justify their inclusion.
    Even so, if RTW2 has the same mod-ability as Shogun, we can just remove units ourself.

  2. #142
    Sharpe's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East London
    Posts
    8,273
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Why are people getting their toga's in a twist? (wohey) Is it a matter of principle? Do you know think they will be fun to use? Or will your single minded desire for historical accuracy impair your gaming experience.

    Trust me, just sit back and enjoy whatever they reveal and just play the game at face value - you will enjoy it more. Pedantic nitpicking and ranting about factions/wardogs/homoerotic German muscles will just set yourself up for dissapointment.

  3. #143
    Anna_Gein's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    2,679
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Why are people getting their toga's in a twist? (wohey) Is it a matter of principle? Do you know think they will be fun to use? Or will your single minded desire for historical accuracy impair your gaming experience.
    But you see this is only a personal taste. Personally war-dog unit were "fun" only for two use. In fact you can count it on curiosity rather than fun.

    It is not a matter of principle whatever what could it means. Not even one of "historical accuracy". I liked masks used by samurai units and other extravagant outfits despite the fact that they were not used in battle for good reasons. Neither did how battles happen in Shogun 2 really bothered me in term of accuracy.

    But units of 200 war dogs seen on the field is the kind of immersion breaker I don't like to see. I don't find them fun. I don't think they had anything interesting. There are just here without much reasons.

    As for diversity I don't think any of use is bothered by this after Shogun 2. I can only be better. And until we see half of the mountainous tribes in Anatolia and Middle East I don't thin there is need for Easter Eggs units "to improve diversity"

    And lest be honest. How many people would ask for war dogs if they were not present in RTW ?

  4. #144
    Knight117's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    48
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Can I just state that my first response to this thread's OP was 'Eff you, that's why'. Anywho; I want wardogs. I've said so about....

    Ten minutes later...

    ...a million goddamn times in in this thread alone. And, judging from the poll, 81 people want them in. Stop trying to enforce your views on someone else. Don't like war dogs? Don't want them in? Don't buy the game. Don't play the factions that use them. Hell, play the factions and simply don't build them.
    ​Why? 'Cos your mother!

  5. #145
    Påsan's Avatar da ba dee dabba da-ee
    Citizen

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DEATH
    Posts
    10,733
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    Where does the idea that war dog unit will help the player to avoid ambush come from ?


    Not convincing.

    It is a fact battles where dogs were used on an important scale were extremely rare. I can't think of anything else than beside the battle you mentioned between the Magnesians and the Ephesians. And even then it is far from detailed. Do we even know how many cavaliers participated at this battle ?

    War dog have no place in the kind of fighting TW have been represented so for. So please stop to call accurate something that is not.
    We had K9 units in the (modern) army where I served for a time, we used them to patrol areas and track people and hunt down and pacify fleeing targets. A thing they are extremely good at, mind you, they are ferocious and can have you at the ground in seconds. So there's your answer.

    The dog was the earliest domesticated animal, and bringing them to battle is entirely rational for a hunter-warrior society like the Germans.




    And these dogs are trained not to kill :
    Last edited by Påsan; February 27, 2013 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #146
    Huberto's Avatar Equites Cohortales
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,437
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    And lest be honest. How many people would ask for war dogs if they were not present in RTW ?
    Exactly right, Anna. The hue and cry for war dogs is RTW nostalgia run amok.

    Basically war dogs doesn't strike me as
    "fun," they strike me as annoying. Like those explosive Kisho Ninja: "Hahaha lulz just threw a big bomb in you face!" Juvenile fun, maybe. Adult fun? Not really.

  7. #147
    Sharpe's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East London
    Posts
    8,273
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    Adult fun? Not really.
    Depends on the person. I am 22 and would find them fun to use - I don't feel compelled to act a certain way because I am an "Adult" Isn't the point of games meant to be escapism anyway?

  8. #148
    Påsan's Avatar da ba dee dabba da-ee
    Citizen

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DEATH
    Posts
    10,733
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    Exactly right, Anna. The hue and cry for war dogs is RTW nostalgia run amok.

    Basically war dogs doesn't strike me as
    "fun," they strike me as annoying. Like those explosive Kisho Ninja: "Hahaha lulz just threw a big bomb in you face!" Juvenile fun, maybe. Adult fun? Not really.
    As an adult, I completely fail to see the rationale behind this statement.

  9. #149
    Sharpe's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East London
    Posts
    8,273
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    There is no exact parameter for 'Fun', it depends on the person. Some people enjoy football, some enjoy rugby and others tennis. You just cannot pigeon-hole an entire demographic based on your own opinion.

    I could certainly see loads of adults enjoying the usage of wardogs, it would be a break from using infantry and the like and they would have great animations and all sorts. At the same time the historical elitists that frequent this forum would certainly not enjoy them and complain that they took valuable development time away from more "worthy" unit - subjectivity is totally dominating this thread.

  10. #150
    Huberto's Avatar Equites Cohortales
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,437
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Depends on the person. I am 22 and would find them fun to use - I don't feel compelled to act a certain way because I am an "Adult" Isn't the point of games meant to be escapism anyway?
    You feel the way you feel. I share Anna's pov on this question. It is anti-fun for me because it spoils immersion (which for me is basically an authentic feel) to have war dog units that seem like a gratuitous, dopey stunt.

    And yes, in general dopey stunts tend to appeal to young teens and tend to be less appealing to grown ups. Not an ironclad rule, mind you.

    Look I'm sure lot's of people are gonna love it. They'd probably love all sorts of crazy units in the game especially if they played RTW and RTW had those units. Heck, they'd be disappointed if war dogs and pigs and berserkers were missing. Doesn't make me want to buy the game though.
    Last edited by Huberto; February 27, 2013 at 06:17 PM.

  11. #151
    Anna_Gein's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    2,679
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    We had K9 units in the (modern) army where I served for a time, we used them to patrol areas and track people and hunt down and pacify fleeing targets. A thing they are extremely good at, mind you, they are ferocious and can have you at the ground in seconds. So there's your answer.
    I am conscious about that but I don't think they would be if much use to detect massive ambush made by ten thousands soldiers. or even a smaller one. Dogs could certainly be used to guard restricted area like the camp in small patrol but I don't think a specific unit of war dog would be used to scout the area near an army in march. That was one of the main role of light cavalry.

    By the way I am relatively used to contact with dogs. I know very well what an untrained dog could do to a human let alone what could it gives if the dog was trained to kill and his race selected for this role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    The dog was the earliest domesticated animal, and bringing them to battle is entirely rational for a hunter-warrior society like the Germans.
    I don't contest the presence of a few dogs on a battlefield but massive concentration of dogs to form cohorts, phalanx or anything alike. What "units" represent in TW.

    TW always represented pinned-battles and pinned-battles only. Even "siege battles" are assault without proper siege operations. Those things were a little represented on the campaign map until M2TW and that's it. Everything else isn't directly present in TW including all the dominant roles dogs were and still are able to carry. Dogs have pretty much nothing to do in TW battles except appear as some kind of active units and general retinue.
    Last edited by Anna_Gein; February 27, 2013 at 06:23 PM.

  12. #152
    Ikko-Ikki
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    5
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Yeah, that's a more realistic size unit for them.

  13. #153
    Eofor's Avatar Pili Prior
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Geatland
    Posts
    2,496
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    War dogs are a silly unit-no records of them being used by the Germanic tribes, or anyone else IIRC.
    Although one silly unit is better than dozens of silly units. I'll just mod them out as soon as mod tools whether official or fan made become available.

  14. #154
    Sol Invictus's Avatar Pili Prior
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    2,269
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    I could certainly do without the Wardog Unit. Maybe in a detailed tactical situation they might make a bit of sense but I don't think they fit well in the TW form of gameplay. If they had a mixed unit of Wardogs with handlers then it would be ok I guess but having a loose pack of dogs tearing up the battlefield like a school of baracuda is a bit much. Same with Burning Pigs and other silly stuff. Just because some odd form of warfare occurred in a few instances does not justify having it as a unit in TW. They are just not needed imo.

  15. #155
    Signifer
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    229
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Basically here is the answer - CA said they would be bringing in rare/unusual units for diversity purposes ETC. There is a chance that wardogs were used and thus, justify their inclusion.
    Hundreds of different cultures around and what you use to diversify? Dogs.
    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

  16. #156
    Eofor's Avatar Pili Prior
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Geatland
    Posts
    2,496
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Hundreds of different cultures? lol

  17. #157
    Sharpe's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East London
    Posts
    8,273
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaumir View Post
    Hundreds of different cultures around and what you use to diversify? Dogs.
    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    Yes - These apparent hundreds of cultures mean nothing to the uninformed casual player, but an the use of animal is a big physical change.

    Syrians, Jews, Bastarnae, Triballi whatever - they are all men, but Dogs are totally different and add variation to the physical aspect of the game.

    They might not even be a unit - they may be an ancillary or retainer for a general's unit.
    Last edited by Sharpe; February 27, 2013 at 07:19 PM.

  18. #158
    Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    45
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    "Blood and destruction shall be so in use
    And dreadful objects so familiar
    That mothers shall but smile when they behold
    Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
    All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
    And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
    With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
    Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
    Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
    That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
    With carrion men, groaning for burial."

  19. #159
    Påsan's Avatar da ba dee dabba da-ee
    Citizen

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DEATH
    Posts
    10,733
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    I think the main problem is the lack of proper sources. If we are only to go by what was written about the tribes in questioning we would end up with three different units. A warband unit with an assortment of random weapons including bows, spears and axes, Some sort of elite bodyguard unit and a cavalry unit. Ancient sources have a way of simplifying actual facts, and in many cases the author was not even present or even living in the same period.

    That is why CA flavors things with berserkers, night hunters and wardogs. All of which are fringe material, maybe, but not illogical at all, and they all offers interesting and unique tactical possebilities. Like for example releasing the dogs of war on fleeing enemies or breaking the roman lines with cult-warriors like the "berserkers"

  20. #160
    Smolka's Avatar Aquilifer
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ohio, US
    Posts
    314
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Wardogs... Why?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaumir View Post
    Hundreds of different cultures around and what you use to diversify? Dogs.
    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    I don't think CA will use the wardogs to distinguish between cultures at all. They may end up being available to several different factions/cultures such as Celts, Germanics, and Romans. The diversity between cultures will probably be shown by a larger number of unique units available only to one or a few factions. If the dogs are used to show diversity, then maybe each culture will use a different breed of dog.

Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •