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Thread: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

  1. #101

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    GrimFear: i'm finalizing few things, should have it done during weekend, then i will have to write full change log and stuff which will take some time too... so plan is to have it released next week.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    El Chupanibre: its not possible, as movement is hardcoded to predefined types. routed units doesn't have separate movement speed. I have done something similar in the past, where i linked movement speed with fatigue/cohesion, anyway that had some side effects therefore i have decided to remove it.


    Apocalipto: Everything is scaled - range 50 represents 150m in reality, so if you have units firing at max effective range casualties will be low. you have to get closer... Plus, from your pictures it looks like you are using some smaller numbers -ER mod is developed for ultra settings on unit size, infantry unit should have 200 men. With smaller units you get less bullets fired and less targets to hit, therefore you end up with much smaller casualty rates as intended.

    regarding cavalry - forget about all you knew about cavalry from movies and other games. Cavalry is not supposed to crush into anything or anybody. Horses wont do it, they would stop instead, they are not machines you can drive into concrete wall... Hussars in your pictures attacked grenadiers, which are Elite infantry with very good morale - their high morale override the effect of cavalry approaching from behind - all they did was just to turn 180 degree and meet the cavalry - mind you in reality, if you want to turn the unit 180 degrees, you don't need to move men from left to right, just every men does that turn by himself... but to explain it better - your hussars in the picture were disordered, out of formation moving against Grenadiers in formation that were not threatened by anything else... in reality, such Hussar unit would hesitate to attack anyway, so result would be the same no matter what those grenadiers were facing originally...

    Another thing i noticed, you played a custom battle, where no unit had any experience bonuses - in Campaign play every unit has some starting experience bonuses - actually experience bonuses are extremely important to differentiate unit status and effectivity - for example standard Line infantry usually starts with 1 exp, while grenadiers start with 2-3exp points! In custom battles you need to give exp to units yourself otherwise results will be completely different from what you get in campaign battles.


    Howitzers got changed a bit. I made them slightly more reliable than they were before, allowed their projectiles to bounce which also increases the damage potential, but to offset this all howitzer units are composed just by 2 guns per unit - but again - if you play with small unit sizes, you wont even notice this..
    Ok, i need more test in campaign mode, i check the change with exp. But, the ultra setting unit size were i change it?

  3. #103

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    unit size you can adjust in game options, under graphics. Just set unit size to ULTRA.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    unit size you can adjust in game options, under graphics. Just set unit size to ULTRA.
    I'm previously in ultra, and the max number for infantry is 200.

    With many battle today, with exp units, the power of musket still weak. the number of death is ridiculous in close engagement. I know, in empire the time lapse is long, all the XIII, and in different war the % of casualitis are different. see for example the battle of Guilford Court House and the battle of Zornorf, only 20 years late, but very different.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    nope, casualties are OK, they are exactly how they should be - to kill a man by a musket you needed about 450 bullets to be fired in average... which means about 1-2 killed with entire battalion delivering salvo at max range... With ER you need to watch unit cohesion/fatigue. Fresh units fire more accurately, but once cohesion drops down, salvo accuracy goes down dramatically... at disordered level, unit gets -80% accuracy penalty!!! so at that point, continue firing is not very effective.. plus such disorganized unit morale is quite weakened ideal to close up and charge them with bayonets - usually they will rout before your unit even reaches them (as in reality), but of course your charging unit must be in good order, otherwise your unit might rout as well...


    As you see, long range salvos are very good way how to get defeated by determined enemy... you need to conserve unit cohesion, and attack at appropriate time. Initial salvo can be devastating (not just casualties but huge morale penalty to enemy unit at the receiving end of the salvo) if delivered from short range (let say 10-20 in-game distance units). But with every volley fired, unit cohesion drops down dramatically..

    So, as you can see, very good tactics in ER is to engage enemy at long range with one unit, force them to exchange ineffective salvos until they are disordered enough, and then charge them with fresh unit.. In such case cavalry would rout such unit almost instantly even before contact...

    And as i mentioned before, experience plays crucial role - experienced units lose cohesion slower, can regain it faster, have higher morale and better accuracy and reload..

    So, as you can see, its not possible to play ER same way as vanilla game or other mods that prefer more "cinematic" battle mechanics...
    Last edited by JaM; March 21, 2013 at 11:19 AM.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks, now i understood. then, the most popular period film are wrong, both for the musket range and for the casualties, and for the togeter blast, in reality each man shot for his time. Is true?

  7. #107

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    So, as you can see, very good tactics in ER is to engage enemy at long range with one unit, force them to exchange ineffective salvos until they are disordered enough, and then charge them with fresh unit.. In such case cavalry would rout such unit almost instantly even before contact...
    In some cases it's enough for the disordered unit to just SEE cavalry.. like when my UP Grenadier unit behind an earthen defensework was exchanging salvos with a Portuguese Town Militia for a minute or two, until I moved a cacalry unit out from hiding in a nearby wood... The cavalry didn't even have to attack - the pure sight of them made the Militia rout instantly.. just as I expected it to be.

    IMHO you did a real good job with those morale effects

    Oh, and, Apocalipto, if You want to see what damage the first salvo from close range can do in ER, just fight a defensive battle - with the AI being the attacker - and put Your units behind earthworks. Let the enemy march near - while hammering his units with artillery, to soften them up. When they get into firing range let them shoot and do not order Your units to shoot... Be patient. Behind those earthworks your units will take little or no casualties. A 200 men unit might loose maybe 5 men before the attacker is out of ammo.. and then the attacker usually charges.. as soon as they are at about 1/2 or better 1/3 maximum range, open fire..
    Usually the attacker won't get into close combat, but rout.. I have seen first salvos at 1/3 max range that took out 30+ men from a 200 men unit.

    Oh.. and one question for JaM

    Is there a way to play as Portugal in ER?

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Oh.. and one question for JaM

    Is there a way to play as Portugal in ER?
    I'm not JaM, but no, there isn't.
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  9. #109

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I have made some adjustments to naval recruitment and also i have adjusted few ships a bit, based on Wangrin's excellent info - I have decided to bring back 44-gun Doubledecker, which will be the low tier ship now lightly armed with 12 and 9pdr guns, and available from low tier ports - These ships will disappear with late port upgrades, anyway in the beginning they might be valuable as cruisers, but wont stand a chance against ships of the line. They also wont be as fast as smaller 24 gun frigates.

    I have also adjusted ship build times, where Late versions of ships will get reduced build time - especially Late 74-gun Ship of the Line and Late 32-gun Frigate. Also costs were adjusted, upkeep was increased a bit for all ships, with special touch for Carronade vessels which will cost less than similar gun equipped ships, but their upkeep will be same.


    (I still plan to implement few small tweaks to campaign startpos and then i start working on release change logs and unit & tactics walkthrough.)
    Last edited by JaM; March 25, 2013 at 04:34 PM.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hi, just completed a Spanish prestige campaign (H/H). Version 3.7. My observations

    1) In Napoleon Realism it seemed that light infantry had a faster movement than line infantry, so the "skirmish" button was more useful and you could not have to micromanage light inf as much. I really liked that, but it seems to be absent from Empire Realism. Will you change that for light infantry, or explain how it was done in Napoleon Realism so players could mod it in themselves?

    2) I saw that Privateer ships have maintenance zero. I think that I know what you were trying to represent with that, that they fought for loot, but if your nation is at peace, who are they looting? Could the privateer maintenance be changed to what a ship would collect if it were raiding a trade route? That way those units have to be actual privateering to make back their expenses.

    3a) During the campaign I did quite a lot of fighting in India, primarily to stop Maratha before it conquered the world. Is it possible to give other European nations 'missions' to conquer Indian provinces? Otherwise only the human player interferes in Maratha rise to power (Mughal provide little resistance to Maratha).

    3b) Maratha army list is more than a bit unhistorical, I think. Maybe it works for MP as a melee army vs European shooter army. I know changing unit rosters is a big task and outside the scope of the mod, but I think it would be a good thing to change their unit roster.

    3c) Sepoys vs Company infantry. Sepoys have +1 morale and cost less, other stats seem identical. Is there a hidden difference not on the unit card? Maybe the Company inf use a better musket? otherwise there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to recruit Company infantry.

    4) I research Light Infantry Doctrine and there didn't seem to be any effect. Guerillas, Native Musketmen and Frontiersmen could all do light infantry behavior before I researched the tech, so there was no ability unlock. Cacadores are unlocked with Machine Rifling, so there was no unit unlock either. What does the tech actually do?


    All in all, this is a great mod. Playing Empire Realism was the first time I have ever seen the AI conduct a fighting retreat after losing the main battle, instead of dying to the last unit. I was amazed! And thanks for all the work you've put into this mod.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    mdoolitt: thanks for feedback.

    1) light infantry - depends on type. There are two different types of light infantry - skirmishers, which fight in open order and normal light infantry, which fights in standard order, same as Line Infantry. Skirmishers are a lot faster, can outpace any infantry easily. Initially, all natives are fighting this way, and Europeans will adopt this fighting style with Rangers. Skirmishers will be also experts in hiding, while they will be able to detect other hiding units at longer distance than other units. - Light infantry (chaseurs) will fight in standard line formation, therefore wont be as fast as skirmishers. They will be slightly better at firing than Line Infantry, and will be able to detect hidden enemy better, they will be able to reform formation and turn faster than line infantry, anyway they wont be that different. Light Infantry will have better movement rate on campaign map, so they will be ideal to form flying columns and be used to outmaneuver enemy armies.

    2)Privateers have 0 upkeep because they are not payed by the king/government but by private sector. Their cost is higher (mostly because of how trade line raiding works) and there is a limited number of buildable ships.

    3) In planned version i already gave French updated Victory conditions which contain several Indian Provinces, anyway its hard to tell if AI will ever invade there - French AI usually has a lot of problems home,or in American colonies so they have no money to invade India.. Anyway i have increased possibilities for this to happed.

    4) Sepoys and Company Infantry stats are reworked.

    5) Light Infantry doctrine enables standard Light Infantry Battalions. It has nothing to do with skirmishers, which are available from different research (or available at the beginning of the game)

  12. #112

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    unit size you can adjust in game options, under graphics. Just set unit size to ULTRA.
    same problem as Apocalipto. I set unit size in game to ultra, campaign modifier to 2 and lock file (read-only), but i only have 200 units in line infantry units. What did i/we miss?
    Thanks

  13. #113

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    200 men for infantry battalions is standard number with upcoming version. It will not require the campaign unit multiplier to be set to 2 anymore. New version will have new scale 3:1, where one soldier in game represents 3 soldiers in reality, one meter in game = 3 meters in reality... which means 200 men battalion is actually representing 600men.

    Anyway i will be posting instructions how to set the game to get proper unit sizes.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    200 men for infantry battalions is standard number with upcoming version. It will not require the campaign unit multiplier to be set to 2 anymore. New version will have new scale 3:1, where one soldier in game represents 3 soldiers in reality, one meter in game = 3 meters in reality... which means 200 men battalion is actually representing 600men.

    Anyway i will be posting instructions how to set the game to get proper unit sizes.
    ah thanks, so all is fine

  15. #115

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Can I get in on the current beta testing?

  16. #116

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    i'm currently incorporating few last changes, so i don't have latest uploaded in dropbox.. once i have it i will let you know.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    so, played a bit and i don't know. Playing us Prussia, its really not easy lol. Everybody and their mother declares war on me. First turn, i get declared war by lithuania-poland. Good, allows me to conquer east prussia. And then it starts. Everybody declares war on me, 1 by 1 Not same turn, but by 1705, i am at war with great britain (declares war and attacks berlin, same turn, nothing since). Austria, which was very friendly, declares war out of the blue, never attacked me. Still "friendly". Russia, France, Holland .. all at war, never attacked me (they declared war on me, all of them). Only "nation" that is attacking me/harrassing me, are Curland and Saxony. Now i conquered Dresden, so saxony is gone.

    Say what you want, something is horribly wrong in this scenario lol. (H/H).

  18. #118

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Not sure what version are you playing, if it's 3.7, that contains vanilla version startpos file with vanilla starting diplomacy, which was quite aggressive this way... in planned version which is about to be released starting diplomacy was overhauled completely, so you wont see this standard AI behavior anymore..
    Last edited by JaM; March 29, 2013 at 10:55 AM.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Not sure what version are you playing, if it's 3.7, that contains vanilla version startpos file with vanilla starting diplomacy, which was quite aggressive this way... in planned version which is about to be released starting diplomacy was overhauled completely, no you wont see this standard AI behavior anymore..
    ah nice any eta ? or possibility to beta test ? Would love to

  20. #120

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    JaM, thanks for the reply. One other thing I forgot to mention:

    The Light Infantry Gun (early). When it limbers and moves, half of the crew stays behind in old position. They won't move until gun unlimbers in new position. Is this intentional?

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