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Thread: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

  1. #81

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by isaiah113 View Post
    I think they meant the Marathas to be slow (They aim for realism).
    I'm not complaining, that Maratha makes slow progress.. I'm just stating the fact that they are.. as You write, it's one of the things what ER is supposed to correct from vanilla SDT
    And the reason why I'm stating it is just to confirm, that the Beta I'm testing is working as intended

  2. #82

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks for feedback Dandelion.

    Over weekend i made some adjustments to naval stats, mostly to morale and armor resistance of ships, making larger ships slightly better while smaller more fragile (but just by tiny bit). I have started a new campaign for France (H/H) and so far i like it. I'm in war with Austria, Britain, Dutch and Prussia, fighting in all theaters. My land armies fight against Prussia in Bavaria, while my navy keep my trade port open against British and Dutch fleets. Anyway British took from me Windward Islands and Acadia,but i was able to get Acadia back after few turns, but i don't have enough of force to kick them out of Martinique..

    Also in this campaign, Maratha failed miserably and got defeated by Mughals in 1710.

  3. #83

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Guys, please report casualties reports from your battles (both fought and autoresolved), i'm interested what you think about changes i made.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Guys, please report casualties reports from your battles (both fought and autoresolved), i'm interested what you think about changes i made.
    When did You do those changes? Before or after Beta 4 - the file You send me on the 12th of March?
    And what exactly would You need? Screenshots before / after battle?

  5. #85

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    no need for screenshots, just report back what you think of casualties taken.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    no need for screenshots, just report back what you think of casualties taken.
    Seem ok to me..

    Had a couple of battles under different conditions, like indian skirmishers vs. spanish colonial line and the big fight for Paris with a mixed stack of 19 infantry/cavalry/artillery vs. 20 french militia.. so..
    - line vs line (comparable units from the plain values) without cover can fire at each other at maximum range without getting the other to rout. I'm using 200 men per unit and the losses are at around 15% for each unit then.
    - indian skirmisher vs. spanish colonial line, firing from half maximum range into the backside of the line.. got ten spanish at the first salvo and another 20 in the next 30 to 60 seconds, then the spanish routed

    - UP scotttish line infantry vs. french town militia at maximum range got the militia to rout due to losses after two minute firefight

    Naval Battles:

    had two more interesting ones..

    Swedish fleet of two 50 gun, two 60 gun, a 24 gun Pirateer, two 32 gun trader (all damaged for about 10% loss of gun/personnel) vs. a dutch 74 gun SOL - I managed to get both traders, the Pirateer and one of the 50 gun ships to surrender (in case of the 50 gun by boarding it), before enough damage had been accumulated on my ship to send it routing.. was down to 120 crew and 40 guns by then..
    Nonetheless the after battle report let my ship get away (although before the battle I didn't have the chance to evade the fight..)

    Second naval battle was against the same - now even more damaged - swedish fleet, with my main fleet of one 84 gun, two 74 gun, one 58 gun, two 50 gun and a 24 gun privateer. One salvo from the 84 gun reduced a traders guns from 24 to 16 and made it surrender.. the other ships were able to go on for a while longer, but in the end all were boarded.. Due to unfortunate wind conditions and the fact, that I intended to board the enemy ships and therefore stopped shooting with several of my ships, my ships took more damage than they would have had to take. Damage to guns was at about 20% loss..

    Political situation in my campaign in 1720:

    Prussia still only hold Brandenburg, East-Prussia and the region they conquered in North Africa.. They are still allied to Poland and Austria.. don't know if it's a lack of money or a change in the victory conditions that keeps them to be this passive..
    Maratha got a bit momentum, but still holds only 75% of India.

    After taking the Elsace, both Louisiana regions and french Guyana, I made peace with France.. just to have them declare war on my ally, Savoy. So back to war again - but this time Spain joined the French side.. So Spain lost Flandres..
    Right now my European army sieges Paris and my Carribean army took Florida, recaptured Texas, which the Spanish had taken, and is now going for the rest of the Spanish regions in the Carribean and South America.
    The India Army waits for a good time to start their march from Mysore to the other regions needed to fulfill the victory conditions.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks Dandelion, anyway what i meant is results of battles,both autoresolved and fought personally - In previous versions, AI always took additional casualties at the end of the battle, which sometimes wiped them out completely. From my experience, with new settings AI takes much less casualties now, mostly they lose only men really killed in battle, and sometimes even recovered some small percentage of those..

    Autoresolved battles are completely different matter now - even if you have advantage and you manage to win, AI will take less casualties than Player would - This is intentional and represents AI using proper delay/withdrawal fighting tactics against Human Player - so, if you have superior numbers, you will win autoresolve battles, anyway amount of casualties taken would be lower if you fought that battle personally.


    With next beta i will include different resistance settings for naval guns. Currently there are just 2 levels used - heavy and light guns, where heavy are 50% harder to get destroyed. Instead i will use several new levels based on caliber of gun, so practically 6pdr gun will be easier to destroy than 9pdr.. Reasoning behind this is simple - heavier guns were placed lower where hull was thicker. They also had much larger gun crews,so putting them down was harder.

    This will make a quite difference to ship vs ship battles, making type of ship quite important - 50gunners will be no longer able to withstand duels against 70gun ships or stronger, and with introduction of late 74s they will be just too easy prey...

    Anyway, this will be one of the last updates (besides some startpos diplomacy changes) before i will lock the ER and prepare it for full release in next week or two
    Last edited by JaM; March 19, 2013 at 04:19 AM.

  8. #88
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I like your idea JaM
    Naval Battle really need to be improved.


    Naval guns used were : 36 (Fr) or 32 (GB), 24, 18, 12, 9, 6 and 3pdr.

    The main battery (lower desk) was the best protected one.
    But main battery caliber depend of vessels.

    Example : caliber evolution - British Royal Navy

    Main battery : evolution of gun sizes

    • 1719 :
      • 32pdr for 100, 90 and 80 guns ships
      • 24pdr for 70 guns ships
      • 18pdr for 60 guns ships
      • 12pdr for 50 and 40 guns ships
      • 9pdr for 32 guns ships
      • 6pdr for 6th rank ships
      • 3pdr guns for sloops


    • 1740 :
      • 32pdr for 100, 90, 80, 74, 70 and some 60 guns ships
      • 24pdr for 64 and 50 guns ships
      • 18pdr for 44 and 40 guns ships
      • 9pdr for 6th rank ships
      • 6pdr for sloops


    • 1756 :
      • 12pdr for 32 and 36 guns frigates


    • 1780 :
      • 18pdr for 36 and 38 guns frigates


    • 1795 :
      • 24pdr for some heavy frigates




    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  9. #89

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks Wangrin. In ER there are already different guns implemented, for example all 4-rate ships (50 and 60gunners) have main battery composed of 24pdr guns, while upper battery is 9-12pdr. (for now i have ignored early 50gun ships with 18/9/6 combo,but i will probably add these later) Also Early British 70gun ships have this arrangement. French use bigger 74gun Ships (same model) with 36pdr main battery and 18pdr upper battery, while Spanish use 24pdr main battery and 18pdr upper battery with early ships.

    With some research, British get Late 74gun SoL with 32pdr main battery and 18pdr upper battery, Spanish and French upgrade to 36/24 or 32/24 combo, which makes them quite dangerous, anyway French ships have slightly weaker hulls. Spanish ships have stronger hull, so late Spanish 74gunner is probably the best 3-rate ship in ER. (maybe except French Admiral version of 74gun SoL, which replaces French 2-rate 86 gunner which French never used.. Admiral version is supposed to represent French 80gun double-deckers, but i cant increase number of guns for ship model therefore had to stick with 74guns)

    Something similar is happening with Frigates, where initial 6-rates have 24x9pdr, while after research you can build 32pdr 5-rate with 12pdr main battery. At the same time as Late 74, late 32gun 5-rate become available with 18pdr main battery. With carronade research, you can enable 6-rate with 24x24pdr carronades or heavier former 32gun Frigate with 26x32pdr carronades and 6x9pdr guns.


    So, with these new battle entities for naval guns, upgraded ships will gain some better resistance over older ships of the same class.

  10. #90
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Spanish ships were not that good.

    A lot of them were built in La Havane, using tropical wood. They were stronger than other vessels but heavier, so they were slow and hard to maneuver.
    Moreover, Spanish ships were often poorly armed :
    • iron gun (like British) were far less reliable than bronze guns
    • lesser caliber than other major navies
    • poorly maked (corruption was widely spread in Spanish arsenals...)


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  11. #91

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Yes, you are right, Spanish ships will be harder to maneuver, anyway i'm currently rethinking ship composition, to make it slightly closer to 1700 starting point, maybe even adding few new ships.

  12. #92
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Do you had a look here : Evolution of European navies and ships through the XVIIIth century

    I will try to progressively update this thread, but I will also copy/paste most interesting information in I.S threads.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  13. #93

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Thanks Dandelion, anyway what i meant is results of battles,both autoresolved and fought personally - In previous versions, AI always took additional casualties at the end of the battle, which sometimes wiped them out completely. From my experience, with new settings AI takes much less casualties now, mostly they lose only men really killed in battle, and sometimes even recovered some small percentage of those..

    Autoresolved battles are completely different matter now - even if you have advantage and you manage to win, AI will take less casualties than Player would - This is intentional and represents AI using proper delay/withdrawal fighting tactics against Human Player - so, if you have superior numbers, you will win autoresolve battles, anyway amount of casualties taken would be lower if you fought that battle personally.
    I usually do not autoresolve, but for You I did ^^

    After a battle against the spanish in North America a lone Spanish Indian Warband was running around in my region.. Already was down to some 80 men or so. I send a early heavy cavalry unit (full) and two Indian skirmisher units (down to 60 / 75 respectively) after them.
    After the THIRD autoresolved battle, the spanish were still alive - down to 60 men now.. - and my skirmishers had lost 20 men each ^^ That's when I lost patience and finished the job myself ^^

    So yes, it seems losses in autobattles for the AI are way less than before.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    ok, good. that was my intention - especially because of AI which always autoresolve AI vs AI battles..

  15. #95

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hello, i'm registerd for download your MOD, really good work. i'm very excited for the "compact" unit formation, is very real from XVIIIth. i'm go to play in this week many hours, i report my feedback!

    (sorry for the lenguage)

  16. #96

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Ok a play 2-3 land battle in skirmish mode. I'm concentrated special in land battle. The result are equal in all the battle i play it.

    I think the musket damage is very powerlss, little more is better.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Here after 1 minut+ the russian casualitis are only 2.

    In this screen you can see the decrease of a cav charge. I go to crush them on the back and my cav go in krack, (ok granadiers vs only hussar, not heavy cavalry, but the fight time is only 5-10 sec)

    [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

    The casualities in close combat are good in my opinion

    The howizer is very powerfull, always.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    AI:

    Here the cavalry go for a slower charge ( approximate one minut) and no get casualitis (see on top).


    [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

    shot in vertical

    [IMG][/IMG]

  17. #97

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Sorry this is the image for the howitzer power.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Bug:

    this in 5 campaign battle today

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The artillery crew don't follows the piece.

    Ok, 2 some point, in more battles the general body is kamikaze (like howitzer) and the light infantry vs light infantry shot whit water pistol (no casualitis in 5 minuts++)
    This all after 7 hours of play today, tomorrow more play, you prefer feedback for the tactical turn map? i go for this tomorrow.

    Thanks and sorry for bad eng

  18. #98

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    One suggestion I've been thinking about if it is possible is for routing troops to run a lot faster than normal. When not routed, soldiers are slow trying to stay in formation and all, but I think it would enhance realism if they get a huge speed boost when routed. After all, they are running for their lives. It would also make it easier for them to get away, rally, and return to the battle and also make running down routing troops harder.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Do you have an ETA on the next release? (3.7 is the current right?)

  20. #100

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    El Chupanibre: its not possible, as movement is hardcoded to predefined types. routed units doesn't have separate movement speed. I have done something similar in the past, where i linked movement speed with fatigue/cohesion, anyway that had some side effects therefore i have decided to remove it.


    Apocalipto: Everything is scaled - range 50 represents 150m in reality, so if you have units firing at max effective range casualties will be low. you have to get closer... Plus, from your pictures it looks like you are using some smaller numbers -ER mod is developed for ultra settings on unit size, infantry unit should have 200 men. With smaller units you get less bullets fired and less targets to hit, therefore you end up with much smaller casualty rates as intended.

    regarding cavalry - forget about all you knew about cavalry from movies and other games. Cavalry is not supposed to crush into anything or anybody. Horses wont do it, they would stop instead, they are not machines you can drive into concrete wall... Hussars in your pictures attacked grenadiers, which are Elite infantry with very good morale - their high morale override the effect of cavalry approaching from behind - all they did was just to turn 180 degree and meet the cavalry - mind you in reality, if you want to turn the unit 180 degrees, you don't need to move men from left to right, just every men does that turn by himself... but to explain it better - your hussars in the picture were disordered, out of formation moving against Grenadiers in formation that were not threatened by anything else... in reality, such Hussar unit would hesitate to attack anyway, so result would be the same no matter what those grenadiers were facing originally...

    Another thing i noticed, you played a custom battle, where no unit had any experience bonuses - in Campaign play every unit has some starting experience bonuses - actually experience bonuses are extremely important to differentiate unit status and effectivity - for example standard Line infantry usually starts with 1 exp, while grenadiers start with 2-3exp points! In custom battles you need to give exp to units yourself otherwise results will be completely different from what you get in campaign battles.


    Howitzers got changed a bit. I made them slightly more reliable than they were before, allowed their projectiles to bounce which also increases the damage potential, but to offset this all howitzer units are composed just by 2 guns per unit - but again - if you play with small unit sizes, you wont even notice this..

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