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Thread: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

  1. #1
    Aquilifer
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    Default Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Is there some type of manpower system in the game? because I seem to unable to recruit any more units in North America. I've only recruited 1 unit so far.

    EDIT: Also how can I find out what the numbers are for each theatre?
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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism 3.7 | Feedback + General Discussion

    Yes, there is. Every recruited unit subtract 1000 men from population of city, and you cant recruit any unit if population is lower than 2000. Its implemented to prevent AI and human player to recruit huge stacks in North America.

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Opening a new thread for this, as previous one was quite huge and hard to navigate through..

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    After reading some more about historical situation in 1700, it looks like i will need to establish some bad blood between Sweden and Poland-Lithuania, which is nonexistent in vanilla,as these two got involved in war in that year, and Swedes even tried to remove Polish King from a throne that year... This change could actually help Austria and Russia a lot, removing some pressure, while keep Swedes in check..


    Update:
    I'm considering to adjust Dragoons a bit, introducing "early" Dragoon units, which will be Infantry units with better strategical movement (campaign map movement). Standard Cavalry Dragoons will be moved back and will require cavalry drill to be researched. Early Dragoons will be armed with carbines and swords and will be formed in 160 men battalion (or actually 2 squadrons of 80 men). They will move slightly faster than ordinary Line Infantry to at least somehow differentiate them from ordinary infantry and at least give them some mobility advantages they would normally had thanks to horses.. I would give them horses, thing is AI would then use them always as cavalry instead of using them dismounted.. Also because of change in tactics, these Dragoons wont be available from late tier barracks. So Practically, they will be some sort of a Light Infantry of the early era, even though they wont fight in open order and will be equal to Line infantry in melee.

    I will also set second tier minor Barracks to require some military research to be build - this will allow for better unit progression over time, where first tier barracks will enable recruitment of early units while second tier will enable recruitment of late units which will obsolete the old ones. (similar approach is used for ships, artillery and cavalry already)
    Last edited by JaM; February 26, 2013 at 07:55 AM.

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    Libertus
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Definitly good thing to make Poland-Sweden relations a bit more grave. After all not long ago before 1700 Sweden has devastated polish land considerably before being pushed back.

    Speaking of Early Dragoons...hmmm...this is starting to become a little complicated It is going to look a little weird on the battlefield map but for me that's ok. The thing I think should be considered is the status of obsolete units. As for ships this is rather normal that some of them are obsolete and nothing can be done to change that. This is because once something is built it is not worth to rebuild it or improve when it is as hard to do as building a new ship. But this is not true for units such as "early" infantry or cavalry. When something new is discovered they just start to act in different way or use differen tactics/weapons. That's why there should be some smooth way to enter "late" period without necessity to rebuild our entire army. Of corse this should be true for some ships too. I mean the ones which construction haven't changed and they were only rearmed which is of corse doable without any problems(I think this applies to late/early frigates).

    Manpower thing is good and as soon as I finish my actual campaign on clear 3.7 I would like to check it in action. I hope AI won't have problems dealing with this new feature.

    What about the artillery limits you mentioned? I am normally using at least 5 units for stack and would be very unhappy with it. Giving too much limitations for recrutiment is not very good because historically these countries(which your data are from) weren't big empires with wars on every front and many taxpayers to wage them.

    Generally wonderful work you did there Keep it up as there are many realism-maniacs like me

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Dragoon situation is currently just an idea I'm exploring, so its not definitive go. Regarding artillery limits, my info is based on Artillery numbers in France, which was a major faction with probably the strongest artillery of all. Valliere system for example (which is equivalent to early mobile gun batteries in game) was composed of just 150 guns, while improved Gribeauval system had 200 guns. Game scale is fixed at 3:1, which means 150 guns should be represented by 50 guns in game, or about 12-13 artillery units and 17-18 Late batteries. Even more importantly, Valliere system had small number of medium guns (20) compared to Gribeauval system (80) and that will be also portrayed as you will be only able to recruit small number of 12pdr guns, but much higher number of small 3-4 pdr guns. With Late reform this will change and Medium guns (12pdr) will be more common. Plus, French will have both 8 and 4 pdr guns available.


    So, you will be still able to mass 5-6 artillery units if you want, but you wont be able to fit many armies this same way.. Artillery is much more powerful now with both solid shot and canister (especially heavy canister got improved in effectivity)
    Last edited by JaM; February 26, 2013 at 04:11 PM.

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I started a british game last night. From 1700 - 1707 I was able to unite the caribean islands (except spainish owned island), slowly building up my NA force to attack the Huron, and getting into a war with France. Funnilly enough France has a better navy than me, mostly because i was so focused on the caribean and NA. So I'm sending my force from NA and London to attack Prussia and Polond in the hope that i'll be able to relieve some pressure from my ally Austria (they got only 2 provinces left).

    I've only played one battle so far. which was against the natives. That battle started well when the natives surprised me, but instead of charging me they just sat in front of my guns and got destroyed. My guess is they could have won or severely hurt me if they had properly attacked. Did you happen to change the seige time of britains NA province? If so I like that fact that i had to attack right away. I really play Naval battles all that much, so not sure how that is. Hopefully I can give more major battle stats when I land in Prussia.
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    Yari-hei
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Did You already have a chance to take a look into the anomalies with indirekt fire by howitzers? I did several sieges now, and it's not possible - independent of position or range - to lob shells into a fort or at troops on the walls. The only targets the howitzer crews accept are either units outside of the fort or the walls of the fort. Interestingly one CAN lob some shells inside of a fort, by targeting a wall section of a backside wall. So it doesn't look like a trajectory problem, but rather one with the target acquisition itself. Like as if the howitzer crews don't see units in the fort or on it's walls as eligible targets.
    Oh, and sometimes howitzers seem to have some problems with targets outside of forts, too. The target is acquired as usual, the small "firing" icon shows, but the crew does nothing and the howitzers aren't firing. Happens in all weather and with targets in plain sight, in different ranges and dead ahead of the howitzers with no obstacles to interfere sight.
    I hadn't noticed this behaviour before when playing vanilla or ER3.5

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    IN 3.5 there were no walls.. anyway i will increase a muzzle speed and fixed angle for howitzers a bit, it might be a range issue - if muzzle speed and angle is too low, projectile is not able to reach the long range and is not even fired.


    i have also increased likelihood for naval cannons to be destroyed. full broadside will now disable a lot of guns, and kill more crew,hopefully this slightly increases the flow of naval combat, as ships were quite reluctant to take a damage in early builds.
    Last edited by JaM; February 26, 2013 at 04:13 PM.

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Well thats weird. Now my game keeps crashing after Ending the turn. I have yet to play a single turn today, but every time I start my save and hit End Turn, my game always crashes when it's just about to be my next turn.
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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Who is the last faction that makes the move? try enabling "Show AI moves" to see what was the last action before CTD, i made some changes to garrison units availability, so its possible AI is trying to siege some province without any unit in it, which is supposed to trigger garrison only force, but because there is no definition for garrison for that area, game CTDs.. this happened to me with Minsk owned by Poland, because i made Belarus Russian home region with Streltsy garrison,but Poland didnt had access to them... but maybe it is something else. Try replaying previous turn differently if it will have same effect.

    Please post that save here, maybe i will be able to find out whats going on. Thanks.
    Last edited by JaM; February 27, 2013 at 03:59 AM.

  12. #12
    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Well it seems the problem fixed itself. very weird. For now it's back to randomly crash. Next turn i should able to take Prussia's capital.
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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    strange, but at least it is not what i thought it could be... i was battling that bug for some time until i realized whats going on... I still don't understand why CA decided to not allow us to see crash logs... it would make troubleshooting so much easier...

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    Yari-hei
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    3.8 Beta - new grand campaign as Spain (N/N):

    Right away in the first turn I sent my carribean fleet (58 gun SOL + 18 Gun sloop) against a pirate fleet ( three 24 gun brigs or so). I had the advantage of the wind and longer range. Using only round shot I managed to de-mast one pirate, reduce the guns on a second to almost nothing, but had to watch the third one flee. My fleet + two prizes went into the next harbour for R&R.

    Second turn brought the next battle against the pirates: 58 gun SOL and the freshly captured brigs against three 24 gun frigates (if I saw that right). A tough battle resulted, with both my small ships being routed, but my SOL broke the pirates' line and got some good broadsides along the length of two of their ships, again demasting one (which tried to rout, but hadn't the speed left to do so) and the second being boarded (the only time I used some grapple shots). Greater numbers on my side resulted in the boarded ship being taken. On the de-masted ship a fire started, which got out of control and lead to the ship's explosion. Third pirate ship was late to get into short range. Guess they had intended to fire into the boarding action, but the wind was against them, so they arrived there only after I had won the boarding action. A few salvos later, my SOL managed to get close enough to the last pirate ship to board that one, too.

    So, result of those two battles: no spanish ships lost, four pirate ships taken as prize, one destroyed and one got away..

    The battles were quite tough. The SOL seemed able to take quite a hammering, without loosing too many guns, while the smaller ships on both sides lost theirs quite fast. Can't compare to 3.7 as I only did one naval fight there (32 gun prussian frigate vs. two 24 gun pirate ships) but compared to vanilla the battle feels "right".

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks, good to hear that. My intention was to portray differences in hull thickness for ships better, so Ships of the Line are not that easily damaged by small guns usually used on Brigs or Frigates.. Its even progressing with tech, as early ships of the Line are not as strong as late ships, while these have even heavier guns, so once you have these, you can wreck havoc against those 50 and 60 gunners... Late Period 74 gun Ship of the Line is on top when it arrives...(but of course don't expect it to go one on one against 1rates... )

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    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I just found a bug causing CTD during Ottoman turn - Transylvania province didnt had option for an European garrison.. I have fixed it by putting back the Europe Id into province resources in startpos file. Its possible to fix a save this way too ( I managed to fix mine)

    Anyway this asks for some better solution how to portray garrison units in that area.. I'm considering creating some sort of an Eastern Europe garrison unit that would be more accurate in those areas..


    edit:

    I have decided to enrich the AOR system in ER a bit. Certain provinces will provide unique units instead of default provincial units. For example Scotland will allow recruiting Scottish Line Infantry (former Highland Infantry) which will represent several Scottish battalions recruited in Highlands and Lowlands. Ireland will be similar, where it will be possible to recruit Irish Line Regiments.
    Last edited by JaM; February 28, 2013 at 04:41 PM.

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    Yari-hei
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Seems I have to restart my campaign. I had the unit sizes set to the values You advised somewhere in the DL thread, but my laptop seems unable to handle all the smoke from 15+ infantry units of 400 men firing at each other.. even in normal battle the fps took a severe hit.. I'll start again with units reduced to half number of men, which seemed to be what my laptop could handle before.
    Oh, and I had severe drop of fps during a siege, when five of my infantry units were definding the walls of Morocco against a rebel army consisting of only one infantry and one camel rider unit. Even without much firing the fps dropped as soon as the attackers tried to climb the walls.
    I have to say, though I like the optics of the bigger fortresses (those made of stone..) better, the smaller versions made of wood You used in 3.7 seem to be much more friendly to my laptops abilities

    And I can only hope the restarted campaign evolves as interesting, as the one I have to stop. Until 1707 I had managed to capture six pirate brigs, two frigates and two light galleys. I had taken one cherokee region and Morocco.. then - in 1704 - Britain gained control of the 13 States and immediately declared war on me. But their attack on Florida (with six Colonial Infantry units) was repelled by my Carribean Forces, who were supposed to go after the other cherokee regions.

    Prussia was in a war with both, Austria and Poland, who's allies had joined the party, while of Prussia's allies only Britain did.
    Maratha seemed to be quite slow in making progress against the Mughals.
    Britain declared war on me in 1704 - no allies joined them.
    UP declared war on me in 1706 and their first attack in Flandres was repelled by the small force stationed there, costing them nearly 2000 men, while I lost only about 300, most of them Town Militia.
    Savoy declared war on me in 1706, too, but didn't attack yet. Seems my alliance with Genoa, the Italian State and Venice seems to make them think twice, 'cause all of these + France were ready to fight on my side..

    The manpower system seems to work great. To go after the Cherokee regions, I had to get about all troops from Cuba, Hispaniola and Florida - and a few which I was able to build, from the very limited income I had - and that got me an army with three artillery units, one cavalry, two light and five Line infantry.. and two Pike units. And it took me 'til mid 1703 to get those units together / built. From what my spy could see, the British had, after they lost their eight Colonial Line infantry, only single units in their southern regions in North America. And they seemed slow to rebbuilt their losses..

    Did You upload a new version without the Ottoman Turn CTD Bug yet?

  18. #18
    JaM's Avatar Empire Realism
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Next minor faction/nation that will get similar treatment as Scotland will be Saxony. It was a country that was commonly occupied while their armies were used by others (Prussians, Polish etc..) So, Saxony will be able to recruit their own unique Line Infantry units, and so will any other European Faction that will occupy Saxony. (Hanover, Westphalia,Wurtemberg and Bavaria will be probably next)

    (Let me know which small faction you would like to have implemented this way)


    in Beta 2 i have also adjusted technology bonuses and penalties a bit especially for Infantry tree. Practically, more advanced techs will enable training of better troops (even normal line infantry will have more experience from upper tier buildings),but it will also increase global recruitment costs for infantry, because of advanced training received by recruits. So from long term perspective, you will be able to spend all those money you can earn from trading. (AI on higher difficulties will get some small bonuses in this area to adjust for usual AI stupidity to earn money, anyway it wont be anything dramatic)

    Thanks to this, standard Line Infantry will have adjusted progression for usual strong infantry faction like Prussia - as they will be able to recruit Exp2 Line Infantry starting from Military Academy.. But even factions that actually didn't had experienced infantry will get some improvements - Russians will be able to recruit Exp1 Line infantry from higher tier buildings (as well as Poland). Small change was done to Line Infantry recruitment from Government buildings - Minor Gov Buildings are now able to recruit Line Infantry too, but with 0exp - experienced Line Infantry will be only available from Minor Gov Encampment and Minor Barracks,but both these buildings will require advanced military tech researched first.
    Last edited by JaM; March 01, 2013 at 03:37 AM.

  19. #19
    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Next minor faction/nation that will get similar treatment as Scotland will be Saxony.
    What did you do with Scotland? Could that Ottoman CTD bug be the problem for my random campaign map crashes?
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    Yari-hei
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    (Let me know which small faction you would like to have implemented this way)
    Being a Brunswick born seeing it as part of Hannover makes me cringe, but I guess there's no way to change that And the famous Black Brunswickers were founded too late (1809) to be included in E:TW And the troops given to the British in 1776 to help to quell that little rebellion in North America are already in the game, IIRC.. Although only as light infantry, when in reality there were four infantry regiments, one grenadier battalion, one dragoon regiment and one light infantry battalion (total of 4000 men).

    ---------------------

    Today I restarted my spanish grand campaign with a smaller troop setting (200 per infantry unit instead of 400; seems ok with my laptop) and had a few strange things happen..

    - a british fleet carrying five infantry units sailed south to Gibraltar, where I had only two units. No war was declared and they stayed outside the harbour (which I had just destroyed to rebuild it, though I hadn't ordered the rebuilding yet..). And there they stayed. For five peaceful years. Then they sailed back to Britain...

    - Savoy managed to become protector for the Italian State, Westfahlen and Bavaria.. without ever having troops close to the german regions borders. And all three of those regions had been "very friendly" allies of mine before, and even joined my cause when Savoy declared war on me (without ever attacking my regions in northern Italy in the five+ years that have passed since the declaration of war..)

    oh, and Britain again got full control of the 13 North American States in 1704 or so.. three years before the French Revolution broke out...

    --------------------

    I fought several sea battles against Pirates again with similiar results like before. Neither the carribean pirate's brigantines nor the Xebecs the Barbarian States send against me had a chance against a 58 gun SOL + one (or more..) brigantines.

    Can't say too much about land battles.. I only fought against Cherokee - with the troops from the carribean.. 'twas a massacre.. poor redskins.. - and Morocco - slaughtering a bunch of low moral town militia with two well stationed artillery units and mopping up with cavalry... Guess the first tougher fight will come when I try to get Savoy off my back...

    --------------

    One thought: Isn't it a bit strange, that the improvements in agriculture lead to a negative modifier due to "industrialization" while the advances in metallurgy and weaving/spinning don't?

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