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Thread: Spearmen and pikemen

  1. #1
    Signifer
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    Default Spearmen and pikemen

    I was wondering if i could have a bit of advice. What is the best way to use them. I know your thinking wtf? but as arnor i have invaded harad and am taking more casulties then i expected when using them..

    I keep my pikemen in spear formation and in guard mode and my spearmen if i have any in shieldwall formation and in guard mode.
    What i was wondering is it best to use spearmen in spearwall formation and in guard mode or turned off? and pikemen in pike mode and guard mode on?


  2. #2
    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    I use most of my infantry in the center of my line, spearmen/pikes on the flanks with an extra infantry unit behind each flank to support them. this keeps their cavalry from hitting your flanks. shieldwall isn't really that useful in field battles. I mostly in defencive settlements battles. I only take spearwall off of my pikes when theyre moving.

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    Mhaedros's Avatar Pudding-brain #1
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    It depends on the unit really. One or two units, like the Fountain Guard are best used as killing machines with spearwall turned off. The average spear unit on the other hand can be fairly useless and I usually use them as cannonfodder. This is only for the less quality units, like Hearth Watchmen and Bree Militia and only if I have heavier units or archers to support them.


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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    Unless you really, really need your men to hold a defensive line, don't bother with Guard mode for infantry. I do like it for Archers to keep them in line though and it keeps some of them shooting even when they get tangled up in melee.

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    LuckyPistol's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    I keep some spearmen for archer defense if there's enemy cavalry, but pikemen are only useful for Isengard and other units that have a low variety of units. Pikes are amazing at defending gates and holding the line, but spearmen can be used to take out low-tier cavalry very swiftly. The schiltrom may not be as useful in TATW as it is in other games, but its still effective at closing up the gate during a seige.

    Other than that, use them as fodder or just support. The only spearmen worth more than that are Guards of Orthanc and other higher tier units.

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    Wolfeson's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    I just reformed Arnor in my first campaign with MOS (assuming since you mentioned Arnor Spearmen with shieldwall that you're using MOS), so I haven't had too many battles with my new all-Arnor armies yet. So far, the Arnor infantry seems to be strong enough to be used as more than cannon fodder, and can hold it's own with jusy about any enemy infantry. In general, though, I find shieldwall to be of limited use in field battles; it reduces the length of a line your units can cover, and limits your speed and flexibility. I'm with Nastrael on spearwall, though: always on unless I need to reposition them, since pike units tend to be less flexible and more defensive by design. Both formations are great for holding chokes/gates/bridges. In those situations, you definitely want to use guard mode, otherwise the units can get disordered and often chase after retreating or routing units, which can negate your choke.

    In field battles, guard mode is a matter of preference. I usually like to keep my infantry front line on guard mode so they don't chase units and create gaps that can expose my archers (I tend to use a lot of archers). I'll normally leave my infantry in guard mode for the initial clash, and then take individual units out of guard when I want them to make a counter-push along with my reserves.
    Last edited by Wolfeson; February 25, 2013 at 05:42 PM.

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    Incredible Bulk's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    Billmen
    - Weapon is considered to be an axe by the game engine
    - "Axe" weapons have armor-piercing attribute (enemy's armor is reduced by half in combat calculations)
    - No special bonus vs. cavalry.
    - No special formation


    Spearmen
    - Carries "long spear"
    - Long spears have +8 bonus vs cavalry, and slight penalty vs. infantry
    - Long spears have a defense bonus against cavalry charges when the spearmen unit is in bracing (standing still) mode. That's why spearmen should stand still and take cavalry charges, whereas billmen should counter-charge against cavalry.
    - Schilitron special formation


    Pikemen
    - Pike combat mechanics
    - Spear wall formation
    - High "mass" stat (mass is the stat that affects how well a unit charges and resist charges). High mass is why pikemen don't go flying when hit by cavalry, even when spear wall is disabled or when charged at their flank.

    Billmen sometimes are easier to get ahold of versus other heavy infantry and are a good substitute if you have no other choice. Their main purpose as infantry should not be as front line infantry like spearmen or dismounted knights, but as flanking infantry (similar to any other 2h heavy infantry). They're especially good at flanking and killing other more defensive heavy infantry such as fuedal knights because of their armor piercing weapons.


    I tend to hold the front line of the AI with spearmen or fuedal knights if I have them and flank with billmen and cavalry depending on the situation.


    Another thought is you could turn off guard mode and just keep the Spear Wall formation.
    Furthermore, there is the tactic of using one pike unit with guard mode enabled, and using a second pike unit (with guard mode disabled) standing directly behind it. The first unit stops the enemy charge, then you turn off guard mode and order them to attack - the first unit will be disrupted, but will allow for the second unit to maintain their formation and march straight through the enemy, skewering them as they go.
    All in all, you should turn guard mode off if you want to use pikemen for anything other than stopping enemy charges.

    Billmen are best used for flanking purposes.
    Use spearmen for clashing with enemy infantry, and then send your Billmen around the enemy flanks to attack them from the sides or rear - once they are in melee they can perform effective attacks, but you must ensure that the enemy is distracted. This makes them good for inflicting heavy casualties in a short period of time, demoralizing the enemy and hopefully breaking them into rout. They can also be sent into the fray directly after some spearmen or some other line infantry - when they mix up, with the defensive infantry holding their flanks, they can inflict some heavy casualties as well.
    They do suffer from the two-hander bug, though, which is what makes them ineffective in regular combat.

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    Wolfeson's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    So what classification do spearmen with shieldwall (not spearwall or schiltron) fall under? This would be units like Arnor Spearmen (MOS) or Silvan Heavy Spearmen (vanilla, not sure if MOS also has the exact same unit).

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    Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    pearmen w/e shieldwall? they're pretty useless in the field unless theyre being used as cannon fodder. or you can just use them to take/defend walls since they cant use their shieldwall up on them. just use spearmen to take/hold the walls while your decent units attack/defend the gates XD

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    knight of meh's Avatar roghnaithe sciathán bán
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfeson View Post
    So what classification do spearmen with shieldwall (not spearwall or schiltron) fall under? This would be units like Arnor Spearmen (MOS) or Silvan Heavy Spearmen (vanilla, not sure if MOS also has the exact same unit).
    sheild wall increases mass letting them resist Calvary or push through another unit

    not sure about this last point but i also think it increases defense , not against missiles though

  11. #11
    Flinn's Avatar A Modern Man of Old
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    Default Re: Spearmen and pikemen

    definitely, do not use shield wall against arrows, it will make things worse, as the higher is the mass, the easier they will be hit by arrows (this is the same reason for which pikemen do good against cavalry but are drammatically vulnerable to arrows.


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